Large hydro investment leaving me clueless!?

[Midmichkush]

hydro-soil- haha thats funny yeah my city sucks too

icdog your pretty much dead on and im right on track with you. I have the concentration about right these days EC of about 1.1 but still something was wrong. I just now realized my concentration is on but my ratio is way off. I have been dumping the bloom booster at ratio making more like a bloom suppressor. 4ml/gal crystal burst 0-16-16 3ml/gal micro 6ml/gal bloom. Im going to 1.0ec of of 1-2 micro bloom now and just little crystal burst for flavor like 1ml/gal. changing all my res out today.

 

[highonmt]

Mid Mich. Sounds like you've got it figured out. If you are using bloom booster I would wait till they recover and are growing fast. If you are going to switch the rez flush them at low ec of your new mix and then bring the ec up slowly over a couple of days. Changes should be made slowly to let the plants adjust. Bloom boosters are really easy to over feed with. Better to give them periodically IMO. Like a shot at day 25ish 35ish and 45ish seems to work more effectively on stressed plants than continually adding the stuff. Once you get this system dialed and your plants are growing rapidly then you can step up the nutes. If they are already slow shoving nutes , as DHF has so elequently put it "up their Arse" can cause more trouble. Glad things are going well for you.
HM

 

[ballinjordanz]

DHF, i was planning on using the 5 gal outer bucket 5gal inner bucket with a 2 inch spacer in between them, and on top of the inner bucket would be a 10" net pot. My hypothesis for this design is more oxygen and less use of hydroton. Do you think this is a good way to go, or say screw the 10" pot and stick with the reg egg n grow set up with the spacer inbetween the inner and outer bucket. Thanks for all ur replies man, u really are helping me out with all your experience!!!

 

[Stonefree69]

DHF, i was planning on using the 5 gal outer bucket 5gal inner bucket with a 2 inch spacer in between them, and on top of the inner bucket would be a 10" net pot. My hypothesis for this design is more oxygen and less use of hydroton. Do you think this is a good way to go, or say screw the 10" pot and stick with the reg egg n grow set up with the spacer inbetween the inner and outer bucket. Thanks for all ur replies man, u really are helping me out with all your experience!!!

DHF is the real pro at this but if I can add: I don't think he likes net pots at all (roots out the sides are a no no), just holes drilled in the bottom of a container instead of a net pot. Something too about keeping cord roots (big fat roots) at bay, they make things more inefficient. You want nice fine hairs and the water level right at or a few inches slightly above the "net pot".

I'm switching out from 10" net pots to 3 or 5 gallon buckets with holes in the bottom inside some Igloo Maxcold 70 or 100 quart coolers (about $100 each). Yeah I know that's A LOT of hydroton, at least the roots'll like it! Was looking for cheap containers that size and adding Reflectix insulation but surprisingly the Igloo coolers are the same price or even cheaper. Heath sourced some cheap Polytanks in Britain, some get them from Lowes, etc. but I haven't had such luck there.

Heath Robinson's thread goes into more detail (pages 8-10 which has the info I posted): Heaths latest tree grow

Here's an example of an excellent root system ala Heath Robinson:

Here's the "holes in the bottom" idea, note the water level in these pics (again Heath Robinson's creations):

4 gallon innner bucket w/holes

 

[ballinjordanz]

Thanks for the assistance bro, guess the 10" net pots will be returned. Will stick with the regular 5 gallon ebb monster set up. You guys are all so helpful. Was also wondering any possible tricks, or better optimizations for the ebb monster that anyone has found worth doing. And how many btus to cool 5-6k watts (air cooled reflectors). THANKS!!!!!

 

[Midmichkush]

well what i have learned so far are applying different growers formulas for a base can leave one with fucked up plants. Many of you here have told me EC of 1 to 1.5 max and with lucas formula to obtain that you must use 0-5-10 and while that lowers the overall EC to that range it puts the calcium in a level of about 80ppms and mg on the low end also. The only way to dial back the N-P-K using the lucas formula without lowering the two key micro nutrients to deficiency levels is to do 0-5-10 with 5ml of calmag. That got me into the proper calmag levels collectively while being able to dial down the NPK to levels that is commonly accepted as superior levels on here. making a final mix of about 1.20ec room for a little bloom booster as you go. Didnt take more then a day for this new mix to let me know its working properly with a huge difference in water consumption and smell.

The issue i see is while using the GH veg formula of 2-2-1 at the 1.2ec level offers sufficient calcium as it uses alot more micro, once converted to similar ec using the flower or lucas formula the decreased calcium and i assume increased demand for calcium and mg start to show up as a defiency in my strain especially. While it doesnt exhibit any signs on the leaves for the first half of flower the deficiency is noticied immediatly, slowed growth, abnormal stretching, slow and deformed caylx production, if you wait to catch this untill you see it manifest spots on the leaves at week 5 well you already lost most your grow time. The strangest characteristic of this calcium or mg deficiency in this flower development i see is the caylx develops very slowly and produces a spear growing out of the tip almost as if it is growing a small single blade leaf out of the top of it and would produce such caylx regardless of nitrogen levels. This is my research thus far im only in week 3 in my ebb and flow so im hoping much better results with the calmag addition now from that.

 

[HOVAH2.0]

Midmichk..........u driving this thang im riding in the back on blunt rollin duty.....
info packed from the first post, make it do what it do.............

niCe.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

well what i have learned so far are applying different growers formulas for a base can leave one with fucked up plants. Many of you here have told me EC of 1 to 1.5 max and with lucas formula to obtain that you must use 0-5-10.

That's weird.

Never used an ec meter, only the cheapo tds/ppm. 0-5-10 is too low for HID lighting, it's strong enough for T5 and such and some veg setups. That's about it.

If 0-5-10 is 1.5 ec on your meter... I'd say you need to go higher than 1.5 on your meter. I get nothing but deficiencies and yellowing at 0-5-10 in flower under HID lighting.

Mag hungry, eh? I know you have Cal/Mag but I've always used a pinch/gallon of good horticultural epsom salts the first few weeks of flower. Nothing but mag and a tiny bit of sulpher that doesn't hurt anything in the mix.

Cal/Mag uses nitrites which will bump up your total nitrogen available, not helping your stretching issues.

Wish I could spend a couple weeks at your place. LOL

Stay Safe!

 

[Midmichkush]

hydro-soil even lucas himself quotes his formula of 0-8-16 as an EC of 2.0 and anything below is cause for a defiency check out this page http://www.asklucas.com/Lucas-On/pH.html thus my problems

 

[Midmichkush]

opps i mean "for example 0-8-16 should read 1000ppm on .5 conversion meter, in RO water, but strangely, if you start with 250ppm water, and add " at http://www.asklucas.com/Lucas-On/EC-TDS.html

 

[Midmichkush]

N-P-K-Mg-Ca

for lucas 0-8-16 is 121-105-180-74-129

for 0-5-10 76-66-113-46-80

for 0-5-10 plus 5 calmag plus 102-66-113-62-123

for 0-5-15 plus 5 calmag plus 102-99-163-85-123

 

[Midmichkush]

proper calmag levels as suggested from botanicare (for what its worth)

 

[Midmichkush]

for lucas 0-8-16 is 121-105-180-74-129

for 0-5-10 with 10 calmag plus 128-66-113-78-166.6 with the use of a P-K booster like kool bloom not containing mg as needed?

 

[ballinjordanz]

DHF, wut nutes did u used to use with you ebb? u go with the simple lucas, canna, advanced etc?

 

[DHF]

DHF, wut nutes did u used to use with you ebb? u go with the simple lucas, canna, advanced etc?

GH 3 part from the beginning till the end , with only Botanicare Silicablast and SM-90 , and a lil ph down to keep ph a lil lower starting out and let it drift to the low 6`s before rez swapouts and cleanings......

Start a thread Bro and let MMK`s thread develop....and MMK.....In all my yrs of straight hydro , I never used nor needed Botanicare Cal/Mag + till I went full fledged coco.......

Hope yas get things headed in the right direction...

Peace....DHF..........

 

[Hydro-Soil]

opps i mean "for example 0-8-16 should read 1000ppm on .5 conversion meter, in RO water

I was getting around 950-975 on my .5 meter with 0-8-16, if I remember correctly. (been using MaxiBloom for a while now and it's 'Close' to 0-8-16 but not perfect) 950-975ppm in DWC was a bit hot for most of my sativa-dom hybrids unless I cranked up the lighting to around 65wpsqft. Not that they looked bad or grew poorly, just that they preferred 0-8-16 a bit diluted. Indicas suck it up!

hydro-soil even lucas himself quotes his formula of 0-8-16 as an EC of 2.0 and anything below is cause for a defiency check out this page http://www.asklucas.com/Lucas-On/pH.html thus my problems

Then 2.0 it is and those telling you 1.2-1.5 are wrong. Sorry... I've run 0-5-10 and it won't work with intense lighting. You've also proven it to yourself. Again, never had an ec meter.

As for the numbers with Cal/Mag... I don't believe those numbers are reflecting the full amount of nitrogen they're adding to the mix. Again, Epsom is cheaper and has only mag and sulpher... keeping the elements in balance. Use it the first month and then leave it out for the rest of the run.

GH 3 part from the beginning till the end , with only Botanicare Silicablast and SM-90 , and a lil ph down to keep ph a lil lower starting out and let it drift to the low 6`s before rez swapouts and cleanings......

Start a thread Bro and let MMK`s thread develop....and MMK.....In all my yrs of straight hydro , I never used nor needed Botanicare Cal/Mag + till I went full fledged coco.......

Hope yas get things headed in the right direction...

Peace....DHF..........

^^^^^ 'cept I don't dump my res.

Yep... Start low, let it rise naturally. Cal/Mag can go jump... they've already made enough $$$ from growers that didn't need their product.

Stay Safe!

 

[DHF]

I was getting around 950-975 on my .5 meter with 0-8-16, if I remember correctly. (been using MaxiBloom for a while now and it's 'Close' to 0-8-16 but not perfect) 950-975ppm in DWC was a bit hot for most of my sativa-dom hybrids unless I cranked up the lighting to around 65wpsqft. Not that they looked bad or grew poorly, just that they preferred 0-8-16 a bit diluted. Indicas suck it up!


Then 2.0 it is and those telling you 1.2-1.5 are wrong. Sorry... I've run 0-5-10 and it won't work with intense lighting. You've also proven it to yourself. Again, never had an ec meter.

As for the numbers with Cal/Mag... I don't believe those numbers are reflecting the full amount of nitrogen they're adding to the mix. Again, Epsom is cheaper and has only mag and sulpher... keeping the elements in balance. Use it the first month and then leave it out for the rest of the run.



^^^^^ 'cept I don't dump my res.

Yep... Start low, let it rise naturally. Cal/Mag can go jump... they've already made enough $$$ from growers that didn't need their product.

Stay Safe!

Rez swapouts and cleaning/flushing the system was something Krusty beat into my head many yrs ago HS , and it worked......GH 3part was/is cheap and I erred on the side of cleanliness bein next ta Godliness......but....

Waaay too many folks that know what they`re doin that do add backs and topoff`s for me to say what`s right or wrong......many ways ta skin a mule , but as you stated....

I never needed Cal/Mag + till I went balls out coco DTW , and trust me........Yas can`t LIVE without the supplement due to the medium`s CEC/cation exchange capacity......and hey.....

Think I stated earlier that I found 1.2 EC too low that Heath told me to run with back in the day , but 1.5 ec/750 ppm`s @ .5 conversion/1050 on .7 and 50 watts per sq ft with dialed environment did me proud for a long time.....now...

In Heath`s defense his setups ran 24/7 recirculating so the plants were constantly fed , but he was runnin Ionic nutes and possibly the makeup of micro`s and macro`s did better than standard GH profiles across the board but dunno.......anyways.....

HS.......Respect.....No Cal/Mag needed in fast hydro with proper base nutrient levels dialed with less than more.....

Peace....DHF............

 

[TheArchitect]

Dude, get some jacks and calcium nitrate.

Mix the base to .7 ec.

Add .1 ec Epsom.

Add .5 ec calcium nitrate.

Use ro water. It will be 1.3 ec.

I promise that mix will work for just about every strain in dwc. you can cut it for small plants down to 1.0 ec.

In e&f
.8 base
.1epsom
.6calnit
Total 1.6 ec.



25 pounds of base and 25 ponds of calnit from jr peters is ~90 bucks. That's enough for thousands of gallons of final strength solution, a massive savings over even GH three part or maxi bloom.

The Epsom can be had in pharmaceutical grade at the drug or grocery store for like 5 bucks for a few pounds.

The results of this mix on multiple strains can be seen in my album/thread.


Btw, it's just as easy as any other three part. I make my own stock solutions by dissolving a pound of each part into its own 1gallon container of ro water. I use those just like liquids from the hydro store.

 

[pip313]

You keep talking about stretching more than coco, you know to a large degree Dwc will do that and it's normal right? High ppm on veg to keep them as short and wide as possible is the best I've found to deal with it, accept the stretch and work around it basically. Then I went vertical and stretch became a good thing.

I confess to having the same Dwc nute issues later in flower but I had no ppm or ph meters so I haven't figured it out yet. I also ditched my old base nutes. I hope you figure it out cause I'm gonna copy the fix lol.

I did notice every week res changes helped but not fully. Add back never made it better.

I know I'm going to be alone in this but I feel plants finish a week faster in dirt and coco than Dwc it's like the plants know the environments not that bad and they don't need to rush. Or maybe they take longer to switch to flower and that's causing me to think about that week wrong. Too much weed today. Do you feel the buds are at the same exact ripeness?

 

[Midmichkush]

using the nutrient ppm calculator on the lucas page and working with everything i know thus far i have made my own feed schedule.

crystal burst(humbolt 0-16-16 i like it cause it jumps the ph up to about perfect. Im getting awesome bud explosion with this mix now and keeping my MG high up and its really showing in the caylx. This mix for the most part gives me an EC of 1.68-1.70

week calmag-grow-micro-bloom-crystal burst
-2 5 10-5-2.5 0
-1 5 10-7.5-5 0
1 5 7.5-5-7.5 0
2 5 3.5-5-10 1
3 5 2.5-5-12.5 1
4 5 0-5-15 1
5 5 0-5-15 2
6 5 0-5-15 2
7 5 0-5-15 1
8 0 0-5-15 0

My winning soil mix for this strain was 8floranova bloom 5calmag 10koolbloom plus a lil this and that

LUCAS SOIL 2 3 4
N 130 146 128 123 108
P 105 225 87 102 117
K 180 405 196 195 183
MG 73 76 67 77 85
CA 129 119 124 124 124

I tailored my mix to dial down the nitrogen more then most while still keeping what i think are high enough MG needed for caylx development. If they yellow to much using this mix in flower i will add an additional 1ml or 2ml of micro. 1 ml of micro is 16ppm of nitrogen and 17 more CA. I dont think the added CA would be a problem

This is working amazing since i switched to it and here is the key for anyone new to this. Dont listen to what everyone else tells you about EC or ppms everyones meter and water is different. Start with your RO water fill a milk jug to the cap that is an exact gallon, pour it into a clean container take a milliliter pipette and measure the mix you want to do that you know the math of the chemicals will equal proper levels of mgs, ca, n-p-k and precisely mix a single gallon and check out what it reads on YOUR meter. thats where you have to start from. This run being a green horn i hit as low as 500 ppm to 1800ppm feelings out my limits, 1250 is the range for fast growth in an efficient set up for me. So i messed up the first few weeks bouncin around but still should get a good turn out and definatly cant wait to try round 2. A definate rough tune this run hoping to fine tune next run perfection 3rd try.