trying to decide which style to grow next

[bloomingdale]

So icmag i'm thinking about my next run and its down to two styles. 1st- 4 600's spaced 20" apart w/ 16 plants around. 2nd- 4 600's w/ 6-8 plants around each bulb in the donut style. As DHF always says plant numbers dictate yield so i'm thinking the 2nd one may yield better. How many plants do you think would be best around a 600? 6 or 8? each plant would be 2-2.5ft tall. Anyone with a decent amount of experience running donuts that can chime in?

 

[farmari]

On the first idea, are the 4 600s stacked vertically?

 

[DHF]

So icmag i'm thinking about my next run and its down to two styles. 1st- 4 600's spaced 20" apart w/ 16 plants around. 2nd- 4 600's w/ 6-8 plants around each bulb in the donut style. As DHF always says plant numbers dictate yield so i'm thinking the 2nd one may yield better. How many plants do you think would be best around a 600? 6 or 8? each plant would be 2-2.5ft tall. Anyone with a decent amount of experience running donuts that can chime in?

Hey Bro.......You`re askin a loaded question cuz no 2 plants grow vertically OR sideways to provide that perfect sideways canopy with donuts , shelves , or stadium setup unless monocropped and trained to do so.....IOW.....

It`s all strain dependent and dialin what size they`ll be after yas flip em till end of stretch FOR that perfect sideways canopy till end of cycle......

Things to ponder......and...

Peace...DHF..........

 

[forkup]

DHF has a points to consider. Individual donuts will yield the best and at that height with hybrids with 2-3x stretch I've went with as many as 12 in .8 gallon air pots to 40 in 20 oz pop bottles per 600. Again conditions and strains dictate the best route.

 

[bloomingdale]

I know i'm late responding but i've been busy. Farmari the bulbs will be hung vertically but about 2ft apart. DHF I only monocrop and have learned( from you) that its the best way to grow. I have a couple grows under my belt with this strain and am very familiar with the stretch. Its a 50/50 hybrid that will nearly quadruple in size when flowered small. small meaning 12'' or so. My last run i flipped them at aabout 24-30'' and they only doubled in height but got crazy wide lol.

 

[DHF]

I know i'm late responding but i've been busy. Farmari the bulbs will be hung vertically but about 2ft apart. DHF I only monocrop and have learned( from you) that its the best way to grow. I have a couple grows under my belt with this strain and am very familiar with the stretch. Its a 50/50 hybrid that will nearly quadruple in size when flowered small. small meaning 12'' or so. My last run i flipped them at aabout 24-30'' and they only doubled in height but got crazy wide lol.

Ok.....If yas got a hybrid that`s a quad stretcher , then concentric donuts like Heath used with his multiflow setups and what FlowerFarmer did with his Rhino circles is the best bang for the buck Bro......even if....

They go "wide clyde" on yas sideways while they`re stretchin up toward the bare bulbs.....and why ?......Cuz stacked bulbs is for increased plant numbers on shelves/racks where the plants won`t grow into each other sideways or above and below and compete for light and environment.....now......

If it was me and I could do 4 donuts , I`d run 5 lights with all 4 donuts blendin into and out of each other with the bulb in the middle catchin the inside overflow on all 4 donuts like Heath used ta run......anyways.....

That`s 5-600`s instead of 4 in a square room , but if yas were in a longer and narrower area , yas could space em out where each plant would all but touch each other by end of stretch in said circle round each bulb , but there`d be dead spots between each donut where there`s no plants and dead space , so things to ponder.....

Biggest thing is 50 watts per sq ft with dialed environment and as many plants as yas can cover said grow area for max return on sq ft plant coverage.....on the floor with 4' finished plants.......

Holler if I can help.....DHF............

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

at risk of being controversial, and im only new to the cult, im not sure that numbers dictate yield anymore. Trees in PPKs seem to keep up just fine. i really suggest you at least look at that as an option.

 

[irishdude5186]

Plant number dictate yield is a measure of how much energy you supply to grow your bud in both veg and flower and with tress you need to veg more increasing your energy consumption towards growing bud.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Plant number dictate yield is a measure of how much energy you supply to grow your bud in both veg and flower and with tress you need to veg more increasing your energy consumption towards growing bud.

your missing the point i suspect.

firstly plants grow bigger in PPKs, therefore you get a tree in the time normally you would get a smaller plant
secondly the plants yield better, as well as being more reliable and less prone to sudden death than SOME other systems.

im just saying that i would consider it as an option.

 

[bloomingdale]

Dhf you would do 4ft plants per 600w donut? So u would basically trim just about the bottom 2ft of tge plants for good coverage? Also how many plants per 600w bulb? I'm personally in coco 3gal geopots but considering 2gal next run. Idk yet. Any info is appreciated.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Dhf you would do 4ft plants per 600w donut? So u would basically trim just about the bottom 2ft of tge plants for good coverage? Also how many plants per 600w bulb? I'm personally in coco 3gal geopots but considering 2gal next run. Idk yet. Any info is appreciated.

i know im not DHF
ive done 4 plants per light to great success, but i grow big plants. most people do 6-8 with 6 seeming to be the magic number.

if you want a template grow on how to do it right, check out any thread by HundredGramOunce (HundredGramOz?) known as HGO around here. He is the vert forum moderator and a very seasoned grower, and his grows are pretty clear and easy to understand. i believe he does 6 plants per light.

 

[DHF]

your missing the point i suspect.

firstly plants grow bigger in PPKs, therefore you get a tree in the time normally you would get a smaller plant
secondly the plants yield better, as well as being more reliable and less prone to sudden death than SOME other systems.

im just saying that i would consider it as an option.

Hey Dave.......Let`s not compare apples and oranges ok ?......Big plants take increased veg time and can`t compare to fully rooted couple week pre-vegged trimmed , pruned and shaped plants directly flipped 12/12 then pulled 8/9/10 weeks later strain dependent....and...

For instance.....BST just told me yesterday bout his first run with his racks he built like mine except with square corners.....and he was pissed due to the dead corner plants choking each other out but STILL pulled 4.5 lbs out of his lowest yielding strain purple kush......so....

That`s still waaay over 1 gpw outta 3 stacked 600`s , and then he proceeded to tell me his horizontal sog setup pulled 6 lbs 10 ozs with his yielder but less quality strain and 2-1K`s above em , and how did all this happen ?.....

Increased plant numbers with little to no veg time......that said.....If yas can fit more smaller containers around the donuts Bloom that`s cool , butchas gotta use trial and error to flip em and know where they`ll end up "sideways" after end of stretch to create that perfect sideways canopy for max bottom line returns around each bare bulb hangin.....

Could be 4 , 6 , 8 , or however many for max canopy by the time full swellage begins......and that`s what I suggest with the concentric donut thingies......and Dave......

You know I`m ALL aboard the PPK train , it`s just that every setup has it`s own applications and limiting factors built in guaranteed ....and..to be overcome and dialed with repeated monocropped varieties IME......anyways....

Holler if I can help Bloom.....

Peace....DHF...........

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Hey Dave.......Let`s not compare apples and oranges ok ?......Big plants take increased veg time and can`t compare to fully rooted couple week pre-vegged trimmed , pruned and shaped plants directly flipped 12/12 then pulled 8/9/10 weeks later strain dependent....and...

For instance.....BST just told me yesterday bout his first run with his racks he built like mine except with square corners.....and he was pissed due to the dead corner plants choking each other out but STILL pulled 4.5 lbs out of his lowest yielding strain purple kush......so....

That`s still waaay over 1 gpw outta 3 stacked 600`s , and then he proceeded to tell me his horizontal sog setup pulled 6 lbs 10 ozs with his yielder but less quality strain and 2-1K`s above em , and how did all this happen ?.....

Increased plant numbers with little to no veg time......that said.....If yas can fit more smaller containers around the donuts Bloom that`s cool , butchas gotta use trial and error to flip em and know where they`ll end up "sideways" after end of stretch to create that perfect sideways canopy for max bottom line returns around each bare bulb hangin.....

Could be 4 , 6 , 8 , or however many for max canopy by the time full swellage begins......and that`s what I suggest with the concentric donut thingies......and Dave......

You know I`m ALL aboard the PPK train , it`s just that every setup has it`s own applications and limiting factors built in guaranteed ....and..to be overcome and dialed with repeated monocropped varieties IME......anyways....

Holler if I can help Bloom.....

Peace....DHF...........

mate i hear you, and no doubt BST is a beast. He knows his shit, and his shit does stink! Im curious whaat sort of GPW HL45 is gonna pull this round too with his trees....

im just saying that i would consider it as an option.

 

[DHF]

Here`s the thing with bigger plants with increased wattage Dave....Bigger rooms with more light even with smaller plant numbers rarely hit anywhere close to 1 gpw because of the increased wattage......but.......to put things in perspective.....

Gettogro`s pullin down 18 lb rooms outta 14KW , and that`s the standard to reach for with only 6 plants , and I`ve not got a doubt in my mind that SEVERAL folks here ridin the PPK train can do that with the right strain monocropped , and especially HL45.....once all ducks are in a row and dialed.....

GG`s right at 1.2 gpw with 3 lb monsters , but how long did it take ta get em to that size from rootin , veggin , then flippin till end of cycle....and that`s how flip rooms can getchas more crops per yr even with big plants , cuz all it takes is staggerin plantings a month or so apart till the ball`s rollin and then it`s......

Simple ....babyshit....but.....

Smaller flip rooms with more plants and less light will always dominate the gpw`s , as well as not putting all yer eggs in 1 basket and diversifyin yer insurance against crop failures due to all the X factors.....anyways...

Peace....DHF.........

 

[Mister_D]

Just want to add to DHF and daves exchange. Something many growers don't consider before they actually do it, is the amount of work involved in sog vs. tree grows. It's much easier to produce 6-8 healthy and identical clones and grow them up to a large size vs getting say 50 or 100+ super healthy and identical rooted and ready with minimal veg time. However if you can pull it off consistantly sog grows will always out yield tree grows on a yearly basis. My advice to the OP and any others considering the same route is to stick with tree/lower plant count grows until you are VERY comfortable with cloning, shaping your plants, and the strain you are MONOCROPPING. :BIGGRIN:

That said, I am also on board with the PPK

 

[DHF]

Just want to add to DHF and daves exchange. Something many growers don't consider before they actually do it, is the amount of work involved in sog vs. tree grows. It's much easier to produce 6-8 healthy and identical clones and grow them up to a large size vs getting say 50 or 100+ super healthy and identical rooted and ready with minimal veg time. However if you can pull it off consistantly sog grows will always out yield tree grows on a yearly basis. My advice to the OP and any others considering the same route is to stick with tree/lower plant count grows until you are VERY comfortable with cloning, shaping your plants, and the strain you are MONOCROPPING. :BIGGRIN:

That said, I am also on board with the PPK

Never a truer word spoken Dbro......Lower plant counts till yas got yer cut rootin game dialed and hoonin.......and.......

That`s why I stand by my original suggestion to Bloom for concentric weed donuts woven in and out with bare bulbs in the middle of all the circles , and 1 more light hung down in the middle of all 4 to catch the back sides and overlap........but.....again.....

That`s 5 lights instead of 4 as was asked about Dbro , but hey......we`re on the same page with less plants monocropped and dialed while uppin and perfectin yer cut game......

Good post Mr D..........

Peace......DHF.............

 

[bloomingdale]

So would you guys say that using a 1000w bulb in a donut makes it easier to get better yields vs using a 600w? It seems like if plants grow taller by mistake then the 1000w bulb would be able to cover the plant better from top to bottom and be able to penetrate a bit deeper.

 

[bloomingdale]

Also thanks dave for the info

 

[farmari]

GG`s right at 1.2 gpw with 3 lb monsters , but how long did it take ta get em to that size from rootin , veggin , then flippin till end of cycle....and that`s how flip rooms can getchas more crops per yr even with big plants , cuz all it takes is staggerin plantings a month or so apart till the ball`s rollin and then it`s......

0.6gpw I thought?

Anyway with trees, I'm sure I'm missing a lot of great tree grows, but I've searched through a lot of old threads here and elsewhere, have yet to see a tree grow over 1gpw, outside of low w/sqft grows like Heaths. Almost all I've seen have been in a .4-.7gpw range. And these are well done grows, with good environmental conditions etc, where you wouldn't be surprised to see 1gpw if they did a horizontal or vertical SOG instead. Just something to consider when choosing a method. Many pros and cons for all methods.

 

[forkup]

bloomingdale why not try the circles with different plant numbers for each circle. One run should show you the best path for your conditions.

There's no doubt plant numbers dictate yield to a large degree but another difference is tree grows are generally larger grows to begin with. Smaller areas are easier to dial in than large ones. With both methods the advantage goes to the grower that keeps the flower room full 365 days out of the year.