400w magnetic hps ballast questions

[GreenThumb14]

I'm running CMH bulbs and the only digital ballasts that work for them are pretty expensive and limited in wattage, etc. I'm thinking about doing the other side of my tent with a 400W retro-white using a mag ballast. This is in a bedroom that measures about 10x12 or so...

So my questions are...

How much heat does a GOOD 400w generate?
How much noise will a 400w generate?

What is a good brand to look for?

I'm mostly concerned with noise. I don't want this unnatural buzzing sound emanating from the room.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Azeotrope]

Brands I have used for personal and industrial purposes that seemed of good quality:
Advance, Sola and Howard

I really never noticed much noise, but my industrial machinery exposure has probably reduced my oto system's accuity. They can get quite hot. I really would recommend a quality heat sink for the core to extend life and that you make sure the capacitor (dry film I hope) and ignitor are not buried right up against the core. Heat kills!

Oh, and my other note: Always remember when assembling your own that your first and most important connection is the ground! Ground cases, heatsinks, cores/coils, reflector and on and on and on...........

 

[GreenThumb14]

Not planning to build my own, just looking to buy a plug n play unit. I see that most of them are 460W in / 400W out... So I'll be producing 60w of heat? Or is that the wrong?

 

[GMT]

very wrong. when i got my replacement ballast, i put it on 2 thick polystirine sheets to stop it buzzing on a wooden floor and it melted straight through them in an hour. It now stands on top of my old metal cased ballast which acts as a heat sink for it.

 

[agito]

a good coil ballast are quiet cheap ones seem to break down in time and vibrate

just stick a tile under the ballast

 

[negative37dBA]

I ran a 400 watt mag ballast for a year or so.
Negatives were ran very hot and was very loud with the buzzing. Also drew alot of amps 9.2@120V.
I would suggest digital for sure. I have upgraded mine to 2, 400 watt digitals and could not be happier.
They are completly silient...I mean absolutely no sound and dont get super hot. They do creat some heat but I have mine were I can have a small fan on them. They make models with built in fans now. The 2 I have only draw 3.2 amps per 400 so I am getting 800 watts for less amps than 1, 400 magnetic. Good deal there.
Also alot of them have dimming or super lumens features and are multiple wattage which can be helpfull.
Most of them can go dual voltage with a cord change. Digitals are generally smaller in size than a magnetic of the same wattage..that may be a factor as well.

 

[Azeotrope]

9.2A @ 120v for a 400w! (really about 465w on a mag) w/v=a Should draw around 3.95A

Are you sure you weren't checking the circuit with other active loads on it as well?

Yes, magnetic ballasts do waste more energy in heat loss. When cooling is sufficient, they are generally very reliable and fire just about any bulb that matches there spec.

 

[GreenThumb14]

Yea, something is wrong if it's drawing 9 amps @ 120vac... Like I said, I can't do standard digital with CMH.

So a 400W mag ballast will generate quite a lot of heat?
My other thought/option is to use 3 150W CMHs each with their own 150w electronic ballasts... I'm not sure this will pay off or not over 1 400w mag ballast, though. It would only cost about a $100 more than doing a single 400W CMH with Mag ballast setup. I'd be at 450W then and all electronic.

Thoughts?

 

[Greenheart]

After buying my first "Powerhouse" HF ballast I did not hesitate to buy the second when I upgraded the veg room. Very quiet and with 790 cfm hitting them they stay under 90 degrees Farienheight.

 

[GreenThumb14]

That's good to know, Greenheart, but I'm in an apartment... Can't have 790cfm blower blasting to keep shit cool lol.

** I'm thinking that my best bet in order to use electronic ballasts is using the 3x 150w Philips CMH on an electronic ANSI M142 ballast...

For those who know, this should work, right? http://www.ballastshop.com/72c5482np.html
For this... MHC150/U/M/3K/ALTO - http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/tools_literature/downloads/p-5432.pdf

One advantage I could see is redundancy for bulb/ballast failure. Also the benefit of having 3 light sources in 1 reflector should give better canopy coverage with an even intensity.

 

[negative37dBA]

I am all for multiple points of light. Seems you can get more for less that way. Plants will love it. Better distribution and probably a more even canopy.

 

[GreenThumb14]

Good to hear some agreement to help steer me in the right direction. I'm pulling hair over this lol.

The way I look at it, those 150w bulbs put out 14K lumens initial and being on eHID ballasts, they should maintain at least 12K lumens for 40% or more of their life span... I can mount all 3 on a hunk of aluminum to help passive cooling. The bulbs are ED17 (medium) socket, so it's cheap/easy to get ceramic medium sockets at local hardware store. Also, they come in 3K and 4K so I could do a mix like 4K/4K/3K veg and then 3K/3K/4K flower...

Think I might just pony up and buy 1 bulb and ballast to put in with the 250w retro-white I'm using now.

 

[silverhazefiend]

I'm in the same same exact boat ..It's way cheaper and easier to just grab a 400watt mag ballast and bulb ...the disadvantage besides pricing and wiring I see with 3x150s over one 400 is penetration into the canopy ..u can get the plants closer with the 150 but the 400 buds are better quality ..and I assume the heat from 3x150s would be more than 1 400 being cooled

If u do decide to go the 3x150s ..I would go vert open bulb for the most penetration ..
Also HTG supply sells mag ballast CMH setup with a GE cmh bulb ..it's still more than buying a 400 mag ballast and cmh bulb tho ..

I really wanna kno how hot and loud a 400 watt mag gets myself ..I might just grab a 250 although a 400 is almost the same price

 

[noyd666]

i have two auro 400dig ballest, both the same, have fans and would shit ya to tears the noise the fans make. had other model digs and could not hear them at all. had one i had 20 watt clamp fan aimed at it to cool. also had 1000 wt 600wt mags , no noise, little heat which was handy in winter.

 

[vertigo0007]

I run double 400w cmh on mags in single hoods for veg. I love those little bastards. I have 1 of those htg deals as well as others. Its a very small ballast. its like a toy version but it pumps. i wish my xtrasuns and caps and such were that small, but they have housings that the htg doesnt. Im curious where youre finding a less expensive combo with the same equipment. 1 single 400w, say xtrasun for example, will not be anything to worry about sound wise. No more noise than a typical bathroom fan. It wont get as hot as you can stand to touch, but it wont just be 'kinda' warm either. Ime, cmh is way better bare bulb. You want the uv. Cmh bulbs arent meant for digital ballasts, afaik. I greatly prefer mags. If youre concerned put it on a metal stand.

 

[silverhazefiend]

I use digi ballast so I'm not used to noise at all ..but if u say the 400 is quiet I might give it a try ..I'm not sure when u say bathroom fan ..cause those things are pretty loud to me ..a slight hum I can manage ..but it's really noticeable it's not gonna work for me..

How do u like the htg cmh ? I might get that one ..it would be like 40 bucks cheaper to buy te regular hps light and ballast and source the Cmh bulb else where ..assuming the htg setup is 200 shipped ..the regular is like 140 shipped if u can find a cmh bulb for 40 bucks u save 20 and have the option of GE or Phillips ..

But u can also find c.a.p valuline ballast for 70-90 shipped + cordset 15-25$ for vert+cmh bulb 40-50$..ur at 150-160$ for the setup ..not much of a savings but it's still leaves room for another bulb ..I can drop links for everything if u really wanna kno

 

[vertigo0007]

Yes please just for the bulb. I never find them under 60

 

[GreenThumb14]

Cheapest I've seen a Philips 400w CMH for is around $55... The advantage to using 3x 150w bulbs is I'd be on electronic ballasts and it would actually give me more lumens and better maintenance over a single 400w on a mag ballast. Plus multiple sources of light = better canopy coverage than one single bulb where you're relying on reflection of the hood to scatter a single light source.
400W = initial 33,800lm
150W = initial 14,000lm

I can't imagine the 3x 150w bulbs would be much more heat than a single 400... In fact, I'd imagine that it would be like cooling a 450W bulb lol. I can't imagine that 3 eHID ballasts would be more heat or waste more energy than a single 400w mag ballast either. They run silent and mounted to an aluminum plate they should stay near room temp with no need for a fan.

This Accendo 250w low freq. dig ballast I'm using now makes a low hum and stays around 100F with no fan or even heat sinks.

Ya, a single 400w bulb on mag ballast would cost around $200, so it's cheaper than doing the 3 bulb setup ($342) but I'm just really turned off by mag ballasts. It's old tech that generates a butt load of heat, noise and lumen waste... And they're frigg'n big and heavy.

Since I need to upgrade my single 250w cmh to 400w levels I am going to order one of the Philips Advance eHID ballasts and 150w Philips CMH bulb and see how I like it.

 

[silverhazefiend]

^^ I agree with the canopy coverage it's gonna be great with the 3x150s but I really think penetration is gonna be the issue especially if there mounted in one fixture ..but let me kno how the test run grows (pun intended lol) ..in gonna try the 400 watt setup in a month or so I'll let u kno how that goes ..as far as heat I think about it like cfl growers who make the switch to hps ..they always have lower temps switching from 4-5 cfls to just one hps ..I just snagged a 150 watt elec. ballast for 30 bucks shipped ..so Im gonna have a 150 setup for shits and giggles

Vertigo -I'm gonna coma back an update with the bulb links in a few ..I kno off the top of my head ..HTG GE bulbs are like 50$ bucks and Seattlehydroponics sells CMH starting at like 35$ for a 250 watt ..but I'll be back with links and prices

 

[fungzyme]

Cheapest I've seen a Philips 400w CMH for is around $55...

Just noticed that advancedtechlighting is having a sale on their 250w and 400w cmh bulbs for $35/$36 in case anyone is interested. Haven't ordered through them but I know several others here have. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Supposedly they're over their lengthy shipping times...