Noobin up a PPK

[FlowerFarmer]

im trying to do things by the book for a change to get a reliable system. I want to try and do it the way it was designed rather than start fucking about with it. its working now with a lesser flow rate and a few other tweaks like the float level.

very much plant limits. and that sounds a bit like a flood and drain table to me more than a PPK.

I don't think the addition of drainage holes takes it away from being a PPK. If i'm not mistaken this is how they were originally designed. The upper bucket had a bunch of drainage holes to allow the top bucket to drain into the lower chamber.

The elimination of the holes and strictly relying on the tailpiece came later when they figured full flood saturation would further enhance performance.



How close are you to Melbourne? Found this online

Sage Horticultural (in Melbourne) has just started selling Turface MVP, a calcined clay product that is used widely in the USA by bonsai growers, and those growing any sorts of plants in containers.

Or was it a price issue?


I'd be interested in learning more about other clay/rock type medias which allow enough capillary action and air/water ratios similar to Turface.

There has got to be others out there no?
What else wicks well while still maintaining great air/water ratio?

 

[bobblehead]

Here's the link for a DIY cycle timer

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=xGfV9IUcFxE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=xGfV9IUcFxE

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

How close are you to Melbourne? Found this online

im about the distance to melbourne that LA is to NY. Its a long walk.

Here's the link for a DIY cycle timer

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=xGfV9IUcFxE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxGfV9IUcFxE

awesome now im going to have to see if i can adapt that to a 240v aussie timer. im sure they are similar.

 

[bobblehead]

Dude... I'm just waking up. Your day is ending. Far out...

 

[delta9nxs]

im about the distance to melbourne that LA is to NY. Its a long walk.



awesome now im going to have to see if i can adapt that to a 240v aussie timer. im sure they are similar.

if you have intermatic brand mechanical timers there the motors in all of them are quartz controlled to turn at exactly one rph. and they are much better than the motor in the video. a lot of torque. you will have trouble stopping one with your fingers.

i have built several of them for ebb and flow apps.

i've got a motor in the garage somewhere, i'll dig it out and see if i can knock something together. 10 bucks. maybe 15.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

One weeks progress.

from this :

To This :

and shes had a haircut down there too

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

i found this link :

http://www.fspublishers.org/ijab/past-issues/IJABVOL_9_NO_6/17.pdf

and i never realised how much difference a medium could make. I figured it was all the nutes.

i have some zeolite, and can get some perlite. im seriously thinking a 50/50 mix of that could be the go next round.

EDIT ive since done a lit search (yay for being at uni) and come up with 3 more papers saying that perlite/zeolite mix is the best medium for growing peppers, lettuce, and cucumbers. It makes a huge difference. Im just hoping that the 2 mediums dont seperate over time when flooded as the perlite will float and the zeolite sink.

DOUBLE EDIT : so i went and opened and rinsed my bag of zeolites in a 7gal smartpot. The runoff was clean. EC/PH were tapwater. Awesome.
so i had another go at the spongolite the same way. The mud from the sponglite clogged up the smartpot and it wouldnt drain at all. it just kept filling with mud. Threw the rest of that shit away.

So the question is : next run do i go for coco, zeolite, 50/50 mix, or zeolite mixed with perlite?
i dont trust perlite for reusable options, ive seen it break down to mush before. and D9 said it wont work on its own cause it floats.
At least im back to having options

 

[delta9nxs]

well, i couldn't find the paper. i think it's on my old computer which is toast but i think they liked a 2/1 mix z/p for tomatoes.

i read your link and on it they show the 50/50 mix having a 32.something % air porosity so i think that is why they got the best results with it.

right in the target range.

but i found this from a zeolite mine in the us, in utah i think:



Mineral: Consists of a volcanic mineral called "clinoptilolite” (see spec sheet)

Size: 3/8” x ¼”. 4 x 8, 8 x 40, 14 x 40, 30 x 60, -40 mesh

GRAS: Classified as “GRAS” (generally regarded as safe) under 21 CFR Part 582.2729,
40 CFR Part 180.1001

Color: Pale green when dry, dark green when wet

Moisture: Holds up to 55% of its weight in water

Surface Area: High surface area, 24.9 square meters/gram

Weight: 55 pounds per cubic foot

CEC: High cation exchange capacity (CEC) of 140 to 180 meq/100gram

Hydrophilic

Potassium: 3.47%

Calcium: 1.6%

Sodium: <0.5% (no water soluble sodium)

it has great properties by itself. at 3/8"-1/4" particles size is a little large for wicking on it's own but with a regular grade of perlite it should be ok. your source may have a finer mix. tremendous water holding capability.

high weight at 55 lbs per cu ft but again, cut with perlite should be a lot lighter.

the cec is real high. much higher than coco, which is typically around 70-80 meq/100, but since perlite has virtually no cec that should balance out also. turface is about 32.

not the substance cec itself but the effect of the cec can be reduced significantly by heavy washing to get the dust out.

i would wash both separately first and then rinse the whole thing after loading. you might consider a ec4 bath for a few hours to get a head start on the cec issue. just a soak then drain it and use it with no further rinsing.

i did this with coco but i only did a pour through instead of a soak. i got no initial displays in coco after doing this.

the only issue will be with the perlite floating but i think if you control the pulse to where the level stops just below the surface it should minimize it.

i hope this helps.

later.

editing to add that if your zeolite has a good amount of smaller pieces in the 1/4"-1/8" or 3-4 mm range it would be tempting to run it alone with a real heavy soak.

 

[delta9nxs]

.

 

[bobblehead]

So I'm reading about this zeolite stuff... and I came across this: "***Note: Allow bed to soak overnight before initial backwash "

I think this may provide some answers for you Dave.

I'm trying to find the most affordable way to source some for myself... I also need to try some Floor Dry... I hear it's amazing stuff. I'm just used to good old coco/perlite. Hesitant to change.

 

[delta9nxs]

http://www.bearriverzeolite.com/agricultural_uses.htm

 

[bobblehead]

It's a good thing that stuff is indefinitely reuseable @ $120 per 5 gal that probably reduces to 4... Some of us are on a budget! lol... Thanks for the link. I'm sure one day soon I'll be able to buy a bucket.

 

[delta9nxs]

It's a good thing that stuff is indefinitely reuseable @ $120 per 5 gal that probably reduces to 4... Some of us are on a budget! lol... Thanks for the link. I'm sure one day soon I'll be able to buy a bucket.

are you sure? that's ridiculous! how can they expect to sell it to a farmer?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

zeolite. the stuff i have is red. it looks like crushed brick. alot.
not much dust in it either. There is a huge variance in piece size from quite large to tiny.
its not the cheapest stuff around, but it is mined locally. And it seems totally reusable.
im tempted to run 1 pure zeolite just to see what happens, but i suspect 50/50 cut with coco or perlite would be better. as i said earlier, i dont trust perlite not to break down over time. plus it floats.
i never trusted coco in any recirculating system but im changing my mind having seen what ive seen in my and hotboxes coco PPKs.
I have found 3 more articles on zeolite as a medium and they all seem to rate best as a mix with either coco or perlite. the other articles are private so i cant post them here. but you get the picture.

Moisture: Holds up to 55% of its weight in water

Weight: 55 pounds per cubic foot

CEC: High cation exchange capacity (CEC) of 140 to 180 meq/100gram

55% of its weight in water is ALOT when you realise just how heavy this stuff is.

as an aside my coco PPK is covered in green alge stuff on the top. should i be making a lid to stop that or just go with it?

 

[bobblehead]

Yeah dude, I'm scared to call and ask how much a pallet of 50lb bags costs... lol a 50lb bag is like $30 on other websites. This stuff is seriously expensive. You might want to stick with floor dry... but maybe it's worth the investment? There's only one way to find out! And that's to frivolously spend $120 and find out! It's only money.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Yeah dude, I'm scared to call and ask how much a pallet of 50lb bags costs... lol a 50lb bag is like $30 on other websites. This stuff is seriously expensive. You might want to stick with floor dry... but maybe it's worth the investment? There's only one way to find out! And that's to frivolously spend $120 and find out! It's only money.

its waay cheaper for me here. but lets say that it costs you $120. and its 100% reusable. and it gives you a 10% yield increase. how long till it pays for itself?
all just hypothetical of course.

 

[bobblehead]

we are talking about granular zeolite and not zeolite powder, right? I'm looking at the 1/8"-1/4" zeolite. The powder stuff is cheap, and is sold as a soil amendment to increase CEC and water holding capacity.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

im talking small rocks. looks like smashed up hydroton.

you can see where its starting to dry out (lighter colour)
i rinsed it 24 hours ago and its still holding most of its moisture.

 

[delta9nxs]

there are 48 known sites around the world where it is mined and they probably are all a little different.

the stuff in your pic looks good. have you put some in a container by itself and checked it for flow?

i would do that first and then screen it only if necessary.

it's way too expensive says the cheap bastard!

 

[delta9nxs]

swear to buddha i'm only hitting the submit button one time!