CO and NM People, Penny for Your Thoughts

[DreamsofTesla]

Hello my western neighbors

I currently live in an amazing, beautiful house in rural North Carolina -- peace and quiet, natural beauty, great neighbors, it's very casual. For years I dreamed of living somewhere like this.

Unfortunately I see things going downhill in a big way here politically. The official response to our medical marijuana bill made it clear to me, this state is doomed. http://gawker.com/hb-84/

It's not the only issue, either. Despite massive outcry against fracking, they're cracking this state (where oil and gas had previously been banned) wide open -- inland, coastlines, fracking, anything the Koch brothers want. The right wing agenda is completely out of control here.

I was hoping to stick it out for the good fight. But things have gotten so much worse, so quickly, that I have to move. I have PTSD and want to be able to have marijuana every day for the rest of my life. I just don't have it in me to fight these maniacs.

I'm not so much looking to be in in the green rush per se, though if I could eke out a humble living growing, trimming, whatever, that would be great. I do have a way to generate a modest income wherever I am, though I don't love it as I do marijuana.

Anyway, I'm looking at somewhere between Taos and Pueblo. I'd like to have a place with a beautiful view, on an acre or more of land, where I can at least have MMJ and a permaculture food forest. I want privacy/seclusion, but I do need consistent internet. I want a place where I can pursue my inner life, meditation, Reiki, etc. I'm not quite agoraphobic, but no night life is required, and I can stay alone happily for a very long time.

I do have my own income stream, but it's quite small. I'll be lucky to get my house sold for break even before the property values plummet. So I'll need something quite modest, assuming there will be little or no income potential locally where I'm headed.

I realize they've already fracked the crap out of both CO and NM, and am hoping some of you can maybe tell me the status on that, what I could do to avoid finding another beautiful home and being poisoned by big oil again. Any thoughts on the fracking/oil situation there?

Also, one of the main things I'm looking for is local government that actually responds to the citizens, at least a little. That was the greatest thing for me about the CO victory, and I know NM has done some great things in banning fracking in certain areas. I want to live somewhere that the people are at least somewhat empowered, will ask for what they want and fight back.

Your thoughts?


<3 Tesla

 

[LubdaNugs]

Search for your inner peace in Crestone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crestone,_Colorado

 

[Paco]

Denver is great. and i may be the only person who says this. but i love new mexico, albaturkey is rad. makes me think of Denver in the 1980s.

 

[monsoon]

As far as MMJ..... CO does not recognize PTSD as a treatable condition under Amendment 20. However, it's the #1 ailment folks in NM get their cards for. Figure that.

Cheap land will be dry land. It is diferent out here than it is "back East" in that unless there's a Water Right you can purchase with your land, or the land already has a water right attached to it, you have no right to water outside of your home whatsoever. (Household Use only permit)
I'm not sure how NM works it...but every drop of water here in CO is spoken for...and more. (there are more rights than water in many areas, especially in this drought condition)

And while we passed a legalization measure here, the average rancher who is gonna be living in those areas will be a conservative, as will the local Gov'ts. The only response you really need here from your local officials is for them to follow the laws. Standing up and trying to be proactive re marijuana or our lifestyle will only get you ostracized in most areas. Always best to say as little as possible. they will all know your business anyway....cus it's a small town (if that's where you end up)

Jobs will be tough. Remote living means there's little to no commercial industry and no work. Down that way it's mostly ag-related...cattle ranching (huge ranches)...some farming if they have water...etc. There's also not much vegetation in some areas. Real hit/miss.

Fracking is an issue here as well. Knowing the local Geology and whether the right shales/deposits exist to draw the fuckers to the area might be an important aspect to check out. MOST land ownership out here does NOT include the mineral rights below it. Lotsa folks here are getting fucked by the frackers as well.... and we are losing water rights to these people right and left causing shortages in hay and groundwater pollution.

Small parcels exist in CO...but the land here is often broken down into 35 acre parcels because in most areas you can subdivide down to that number of acres without any county approval. 35 acres is also where well permitting and other aspects/ratios kick in. Smaller parcels don't have a right to a well automatically if there isn't an Augmentation Plan in effect for the area you are in. It's complicated..and it's law. Yup...it's a mess. Dunno how NM does it but you'd be very wise to check into it if you are going to purchase land in either state.

gotta believe yer checking the MLS/newpapers online/grocery ads for costs/etc.....right?

good luck in your quest. Might be wise to make a visit 'cus all towns and areas are somewhat different.

 

[unclefishstick]

Denver is great. and i may be the only person who says this. but i love new mexico, albaturkey is rad. makes me think of Denver in the 1980s.

wait...someone likes albuquerque?

if you are looking to get away from people new mexico is a great place to do it...mile after mile of nothing but mile after mile...it would be somewhat shocking after NC,it does take some getting used to the desert,water will be an issue anywhere rural with very few exceptions.taos is a beautiful area,it can be pricey to live there,anywhere that remotely has anything like culture like sante fe is going to have somewhat california-ized real estate prices but there are loads of smaller towns that will have the basic amenities and can be remarkably cheap to live in..

 

[unclefishstick]

heres something else to consider about southern new mexico...my heating bill this winter was zero...mind you im using grow room heat to keep the house warm,and there were about a dozen days i wished the furnace was fired up,but i just never got around to it...for that matter i never wore a pair of long pants all winter,i ay have had long johns on but dammit i wore shorts every single day this winter!! the downside is i ran the swamp cooler for 8-9 months last year....107 days above 90....

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Paco, you may be the only person who likes ABQ! Or maybe you have a different knowledge of it. There probably are very cool undercurrents there, like anywhere. New Mexico has some free thinkers, always a plus.

I visited there, found it kind of desperate. I liked the wide open nothing of it, but culturally it was bleak. I grew up in a Hispanic community, but I've never seen such women, who look like they would cut your throat for a grape, with all the big thick eyeliner and tarantula lashes. That's a particular thing of the American west, I think. A lot of guys named Spider, or Snake. Not really my cup of tea.

The sagebrush landscape kind of breeds despair in me, too. A lot of the places I'm looking at in CO have similar landscape, but they're surrounded by beautiful peaks. I think that makes all the difference. In that context it might be very peaceful, to be in a flat, empty spot observing the vastness. Even if there aren't trees immediately there, there are millions of them in short range.



<3 Tesla

 

[unclefishstick]

oh yeah,nm is a cultural wasteland in many ways,but only from a certain viewpoint...you can go from mid-summer nights under the stars at the sante fe opera to the craziest low riders you have ever seen...i mean serious,velvet lined engine compartments?

you cant find a good bagel to save your life but if you like chili peppers its heaven....

 

[DreamsofTesla]

heres something else to consider about southern new mexico...my heating bill this winter was zero...mind you im using grow room heat to keep the house warm,and there were about a dozen days i wished the furnace was fired up,but i just never got around to it...for that matter i never wore a pair of long pants all winter,i ay have had long johns on but dammit i wore shorts every single day this winter!! the downside is i ran the swamp cooler for 8-9 months last year....107 days above 90....

Hey Unc

Thanks for the good thoughts! Southern NM is a no-fly for me. Just too dang hot. Here in the south everybody is either "hot natured" or "cold natured," meaning they either get too hot or too cold quickly. I'm definitely hot natured, do much better in colder than warmer. I don't deal with daytime outside in NC for about half the year. Ironically everything indoors in NC in summer is air conditioned to a meat locker.

Are you familiar with earthships? That's a big NM thing, you probably know it. Love that passive heating/cooling concept, makes all too much sense.

<3 Tesla

 

[unclefishstick]

but its the dry heat! lol when you have a bunch of old creaky joints the dry heat is nice...
and from a growers perspective i can tell you i have never seen pm or bud rot or anything of that nature...
we do have plenty of free sunshine to use,with proper building and siting its easy to maintain comfortable year round temps,those old thick walled adobes are like caves,lots of straw bale houses here too...

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Monsoon

Cheap land will be dry land...

Thank you so much, this was exactly the information I was looking for.

I'm very interested in permaculture and sustainability. Are you familiar with Geoff Lawton and Greening the Desert?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzTHjlueqFI

I wonder if the water rights includes rain/snow harvesting? What I'm thinking of would be dependent on rain harvesting and water recycling. Can they prevent me from digging a swale or collecting rain/snow that falls on my land? I'll have to research that carefully, thanks for the heads up.

I'd love to have an earthship, though I don't have the money to hire people to build it, and I'm not physically capable of doing it myself. But I can head in that direction, as sustainable and off-grid as possible. If I have enough space, I can build a garden and eventually add in living quarters, spend all my spare time pounding dirt into tires. I'd have to live in either a trailer or one of the many wacky little Unabomber cabins they have all around CO in the meantime.

the average rancher who is gonna be living in those areas will be a conservative, as will the local Gov'ts.

Right, that has to be a primary consideration for me. Generally I'm truly OK with living among people with different ideologies, that's why I live here now. I'm all about live and let live. But now that we're approaching a crisis, I find that the way my neighbors approach it isn't going to work for me at all. So I need to be in a like-minded community just as a baseline. Many of them don't even think fracking is a problem, much less a crisis. I need more of a Vulcan mind meld with my community.

That's also a sort of internal thing, like I have to question why I don't insist on having more of what I want. I need to correct that, I think.

Standing up and trying to be proactive re marijuana or our lifestyle will only get you ostracized in most areas.

No, that's the big thing. I have no desire to fight the world. The only thing I want to fight for is my own internal condition. And I want that fight to become much easier than it has been. So I'm definitely looking for a MJ friendly town or area. I just want to be left alone to self-supply and self-medicate in peace.

I have my own modest income that I can do anywhere, not dependent on local economy. I've seen a number of properties that look great for my purposes at 25-50% less than what I pay now. If I could work that out, I'd live quite comfortably and have more time to work on my food forest, etc.

One more question -- what's the deal with BLM land? A lot of listings talk about BLM adjacent as a plus, as though that implies it will never be developed. Is that what they're saying? What's to prevent BLM from leasing the whole kit and caboodle for fracking?

good luck in your quest. Might be wise to make a visit 'cus all towns and areas are somewhat different.

Thanks! I'm in the infancy stages of planning a visit to scout the location. As mentioned above, I suspect Crestone may be my blue heaven. Buddhist temple and everything

Thanks again so much, you've been extremely helpful.


<3 Tesla

 

[DreamsofTesla]

but its the dry heat! lol when you have a bunch of old creaky joints the dry heat is nice...
and from a growers perspective i can tell you i have never seen pm or bud rot or anything of that nature...
we do have plenty of free sunshine to use,with proper building and siting its easy to maintain comfortable year round temps,those old thick walled adobes are like caves,lots of straw bale houses here too...

Unc,

Have you ever seen a baked lobster? LOL Well that's what I look like in a dry heat I will look you up whenever I get moved out that way though, take a field trip when it's not so blazing hot, spark a few and have some iced tea.

<3 Tesla

 

[monsoon]

Glad I can foster some thought. There are alot of parameters to consider that many folks never consider. Since you own yer own house

BLM.... is wide open to fracking. Your best protection from this menace is to get a handle on the local geology...some areas just aren't productive while others are....and they are being targeted heavily. Googling about certain areas may reveal permits or requests for permits in the area. The bastards sure aren't gonna tell us so we have to remain on top of their games.

The other scourge associated with BLM...is grazing. They lease land for cheap for ranchers to graze cattle...and the cattle tear the shit out of and crap all over everything. Keep in mind...cows rule in the West. It is your responsibility to fence them OUT...not the ranchers responsibility to fence them in. If his cows get into and eat and crap all over the garden you spent all summer caring for the rancher has no responsibility and you have no recourse whatsoever. Being close to BLM means you need a good fence!

Crestone is a funky/free-spirited place. One of the reasons for this is that Crestone is in one of the counties in CO where building codes are absent for the most part. Lotsa false starts and haphazard constuction in the area. Also keep in mind alamosa is probably 40 miles away sand there's not much else (no/few employment ops)

Here is a list of Colorado counties that currently have no adopted building code:
Cheyenne
Conejos
Custer
Delta
Dolores
Kit Carson
Mineral
Phillips
Prowers
Saguache
Yuma

This can work both ways, obviously. Folks can build more freely but that also allows for crappy construction. Beware if yer buying a house in one of these counties. get an inspection

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Glad I can foster some thought. There are alot of parameters to consider that many folks never consider.

Monsoon, you are a little gift to me. I hope when I arrive we can rip a big fat bong hit.



<3 Tesla

 

[Paco]

born and raised in co. but if you want to stay away from culturally bleak, stay away from the mountain towns. dgo is cool, but shit sounds weird, there way too many east coast yuppie boulderite types. for example, cop kill an elk, town hold candle light vigil for the elk. two days later a homeless guy dies downtown, no one cares. just saying, that is a prevailing culture in most mountain towns
abq is really an awesome place, good food and great people. snakes a good guy, just gotta give everyone a chance.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

born and raised in co. but if you want to stay away from culturally bleak, stay away from the mountain towns. dgo is cool, but shit sounds weird, there way too many east coast yuppie boulderite types. for example, cop kill an elk, town hold candle light vigil for the elk. two days later a homeless guy dies downtown, no one cares. just saying, that is a prevailing culture in most mountain towns
abq is really an awesome place, good food and great people. snakes a good guy, just gotta give everyone a chance.

LOL!

 

[dddaver]

Firstly, I just wanna point out what might be obvious. Although PTSD might not get you qualified for MMJ in CO, if legal holds up, that point will be moot anyway as you should be able to get cannabis there anyway, or grow (which I would do anyway) with no fear of retribution.


So, let me describe myself first a little so you have some idea where I'm coming from. I grew up in a little town in central NY. I joined the United States Air Farts when I was 26 after my then wife started screwing around while we still had 2 babies in their cribs. I eventually got custody those of those kids and raised them. I married a Korean girl and she popped out another rug-rat. Wifey died 7 years ago. I spent over 20 years in the weather career field, was sent all over the world, and somehow even learned some crap about how to forecast weather. Cut to now. Somehow I ended up disabled (can't walk for shit) in the panhandle of FL (actually more like southern Ala-fuckin-bama), in 80% constant humidity (painful all the time for these arthritic bones), live alone in a fuckin' double-wide trailer, and wonder how this all happened putting me here. Anyway I somehow managed to finish my degree in education from FSU, my son has a degree in computers and lives in Syracuse NY, and his sister is raising my 2 beautiful grand-babies while a junior in a business program at a college near here. My other daughter is 25 ( her mother died when she was just 18) and still having fun, young, dumb, and full of ..., she's a girl and my daughter, I shouldn't say that. Anyway, long story short, I'm only 56. I often wonder how the hell I ended up living alone, in a fucking trailer, beat down bad, in southern Ala-fuckin-bama at this age. I make it sound bad but there are plenty of pluses. I live in a rural setting, on 5 beautiful acres, 2 ponds on it, wildlife galore, and people leave me alone for the most part, my bank account is healthy, this double-wide is fairly nicely appointed, I own my car, and my beautiful grand-babies are only about an hour and a half away. I do make it sound much shittier than it really is sometimes. I just feel especially nasty today and that puts me in a foul mood.


Anyway, I'm sorta like you I think, I'd like to get the hell out of Dodge. With all this heart of the bible belt garbage, damned constant high humidity, and this trailer life just ain't for me. But given my physical limitations, and the huge hassle of moving (by far the worst part of a military career, most will say that) that probably won't happen. I read your complaints about NC. I'm in total agreement. I thought they would get MMJ. I almost got out of the Air Farts and moved to Asheville in the early '90s, had a job lined up in the National Weather Service there. I even went and got a PO mailbox over there. But the AF wouldn't let me out, they weren't done beating on me I guess. Now I get disability from getting hurt after that, and them fuckers will pay every farthing I can get from them pricks. I have a childhood friend that settled in Fayettville (Fayet-Nam). He wasn't military though. I haven't talked to Phil since Christmas, but I bet he's pretty pissed at this too.


Anywho I've checked into places some and I think maybe you would like the Fountain, Widefield-Security area south of Colorado Springs. There's a weather phenomena called adiabatic warming as air descends mountains, and also clouds dump their moisture on the west side of mountain ranges as the air masses runs into the mountains, so that area is comparatively warmer and dry, but still beautiful. That area seems to have more of what you're looking for maybe. I'm pretty sure I would I like it myself and I see a kindred spirit in you, although you seem much more gregarious than I. Anyway, it does seem maybe SW Colorado might be more your cup of tea. My oldest brother lives in Las Cruces NM, just a little too hot and dry for my blood.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

So, let me describe myself first a little so you have some idea where I'm coming from... Anyway, it does seem maybe SW Colorado might be more your cup of tea. My oldest brother lives in Las Cruces NM, just a little too hot and dry for my blood.

Wow Dave, thanks for sharing all that! Nice to meet a kindred spirit. I hope we can rip a bong sometime. Do you have any recon planned for CO? My friend and I are going sometime this summer. It will break my heart to leave Cackalacky during the height of tick season, but I'll soldier on.

I know exactly what you mean about both Fayettenam and Florida. Florida might actually be worse, with old Rick "Crazy Eyes" Scott at the wheel. Funny how much we have in common. My neighbors are all conservatives, but we all mind our own business and respect each other, and next thing you know it's pretty cool.

I've heard about adiabatic warming, believe it or not! But I don't understand the concept quite well enough to apply it as you did, so thanks also for that bit of information. Wouldn't it be better for someone who wants to be self-sufficient to be on the west side of the slope then, so you get more water? Also a lot of places in Colorado seem to be in valleys between slopes, how does that play out?

Have you looked into earthships at all? That is definitely the direction I'd like to head, but I don't have the money for it. Kind of hoping to just start out with one of the many Unabomber cabins for sale, or a trailer, then build out as I go and use the original structure as an art studio.

You also wouldn't be able to even think about building an earthship in NC with the building codes -- the good ol' bubbas have never been tighter than in the zoning department around here. They have to approve every individual bit of building material. Rocks, can you approve that? How about mud, is that ok? Can I plant trees inside? Screw 'em.

<3 Tesla

 

[monsoon]

Heya guys.

Dave- You are correct that the areas along the Front Range often experience the adiabatic warming you speak of. Here they are called chinook or downslope winds. Western 'burbs in Denver can be 65 degrees and windy in Winter while 30 miles farther East there is snow remaining from the last storm and 35 degree temps. Farther upslope, like rollinsville and Nederland, these downsloping winds can often gust over 100 mph and can blow for days/nights. Up there, the wind isn't warm. It can be brutal.

The characteristic in CO that is more influential than adiabatic warming but that can also play into such warming is orographic lifting. Contrary to what a lot of folks think, the state is often split in 2 when storms roll through. If it is snowing heavily on the Western Slope/Aspen/Vail/etc. ski areas because a Low pressure system tracks north of the state and drags a cold front through, it may be clear and cold in Denver, or there may be that downslope warming wind. On the flipside, if Denver or any other part of the Front Range sees an upslope, the chances of Denver seeing snow and the mountains being relatively dry are better than not. If Denver/FR sees a prolonged upslope event, this is when you hear of the blizzards/etc happening there. We don't get the same "blizzards" here in the mountains that Denver sees, though it can snow hard as hell at times and blow like crazy creating blizzard-like conditions. Up here, we get consistent snowfall and little to no melt. Denver can get more snow in one storm than most mountain areas ever see in a storm, but Denver goes from Warm to snow and back to warm and melts it all back out in a few days.

The security/Fountain area is in the plains and is prone to military personel/flyovers and commercial jet traffic, and both are basically commuter/bedroom communities for Co Springs or housing for military folks. In Winter it can get nasty there but it is warmer overall than the mountains. Keep in mind Co Springs is over 6000 ft so it is colder than Denver, and that from Denver/Co Springs east in the Summer hail , tornadoes and severe t-storms are very common occurances.

Mountain valleys often have microclimates. This is why Gunnison and Alamosa have the coldest temps consistently in winter. In winter in the mountains...the air performs the same adiabatic kinda process, but rather than warming it pools in very cold pockets in the valleys causing temperature inversions. Where it is usually colder as you go up in elevation here, in an inversion it is colest in the lowest part of the valley and warmest at the top of the peaks. Places like Alamosa can stay well below 0F in winter when other towns are in the 20's-30's. Likewise, some valleys have small rain shadows where the peaks nearby collect the moisture and leave the valley next to the mountains much drier. Here it's all about elevation, exposure, and local tendencies. The ski areas are where they are because of historic weather patterns/etc. Not every place in the mountains gets enough snowfall to ski on nor is it always dumping Statewide in the mountains when storms rool through. Up here the storms are usually a southern mountain/Front Range favoring storm or a Northern Central mountains favoring storm with the southern mountains getting less or no snow at all. It's all about the mountains/continetal divide and how the winds cross the peaks. Cool stuff.

hope that helps. I love this stuff.

 

[dddaver]

Thanks man. I enjoyed that. Used to be work. Not now.That meteorology stuff seems nerdy to some people I suppose, but I too find it kinda interesting, especially that micro-climatological effects like you were talking about, and especially present in the CO Rockies too. Just short distances away can have such diverse weather patterns.

One of those things that a lot of people don't realize, but I had to sit through a week long seminar about it, then use it when forecasting, is that NC experiences a phenomena much like a nor'easter, up off the coast of Maine. It has been studied pretty extensively. What happens is an air mass runs into the Appalachians, can't make it over the orthographic jags, is pushed pushed north gaining energy, finally makes it over around NC, then gets pushed off the coast and acts like a blocking feature holding weather a few days.Weather is stagnant between that and westwardly blocked again by the mountains, until a big enough short wave can move it along. It is one of those things you don't know happens until after after it bites you a few times, then is clear as pie after you get schooled on it and see it.

BTW DoT, I meant to say check out South EASTERN CO. I think I said SW. East-west, always confuses me for some reason, more so when I was over in Germany. I think that "dream town" town mentioned is in SE CO?

Those earth ships look like UFOs/spaceships, right? I saw one that was being built once in the middle of some dense woods. They only cut the trees around it enough to fit in the house, I didn't even see it until I was right next to it. I think if you use that geodesic dome-like construction those things can be amazingly solid and efficient too. Best of luck on your quest. You seem like a very nice person.

I agree Scott is such an idiot. But actually, after seeing the crazy politics here for 12 years, him getting elected is just par for the course. He's such an obvious puppet and voice for big pharma, and the fact that his company was involved in felony Medicare fraud says enough right there for me. So they put another Teflon criminal in charge of the monkey house. What else is new?