refractometer to measure brix

[c-ray]

great info here , grabbed a quality brix meter and have been trying different recipes to see how they affect brix , coco using 2 different nute lines about to be 4 , 3 different organic soils , different feed programs , foliar with kelp , calcium , spray n grow , thrive alive , sea-crop, compost tea and caps tea . i take readings before any application of soil feed or foliar and then an hour after again after 6 hours and 24 hours . lol no matter what i have tried i get the same brix readings .. by all regards most of the plants look amazingly healthy but all brix readings are really low between 5-6 . the meter calibrates fine and when i check the brix of other things i get different readings ..
c-ray i would be interested in what you find to raise the levels ?
plant sap is mostly similar ranging from 5.5-5.7 which is also low and would suggest i need more K however based on the wide variety of soils and feeds i don't think K would be a problem across the board ..

trying to make sense of this

btw i don't foliar with all of those products at same time i spray them individually..

if you want to give me a better idea of what ingredients you have or like to use I can run the numbers and come up with a few example mixes / to give you an idea of the ratios.. need to start with something as a base, the rest is just tweaking..

 

[c-ray]

I'm mostly curious as to how and why you landed specifically on the Celtic salt.

being made from unfiltered evaporated sea water it is a close approximation of sea water when dissolved in water, still containing waters of hydration and marine microlife / why I always go for the moist salt

Also, you mentioned the Sea-Crop being alive. Literally?

ya a few years ago I dropped some sea-crop on agar plates in the lab and all sorts of interesting growths occurred so it is indeed alive, a myriad of organisms

 

[SeaMaiden]

Thank you, c-ray, much appreciated.

I tried to get some sap readings from my Camellia and rhodie. The Camellia is looking rough right now. I can't get sap from its petioles, let alone the leaves. This is not an easy proposition! I've never exactly had the greatest upper body strength, but now it's just getting ridiculous. I have to figure out a better way to do this, to actually get it done.

Now, on the previous page you mentioned pHing your water. The hard and fast organic paradigm dictates that adjustment of water pH absolutely is not necessary. What you report is suggesting otherwise, if we really are going to utilize Brix as a measure of plant health in total or part. Another shifting of paradigm, or do you think it'll be broken entirely?

 

[c-ray]

try a bench vise

 

[c-ray]

from http://quantumagriculture.com/blog/homemade-phosphorus-fertilizer

Homemade Phosphorus Fertilizer
by Shabari Bird

Verily, bones should never be wasted, and phosphorous fertiliser production as part of a self-sufficient operation may require burning them. Gardeners may find they can process left over bones through their wood heaters. In general, burned bones may come from almost any source, and some will burn more easily than others. Burnt bones can be crushed into powder and extracted with vinegar or other organic acids using moderate heat to yield soluble phosphates for liquid applications, and if a little elemental sulphur is needed, the vinegar stage is a good place to add it as a small percentage of the total dry matter.

This crude phosphoric extract is useful diluted and combined with the vermiwash and a homeopathic dose of biodynamic valerian preparation to jump start the phosphorous process. Residual bone ash can be added to composts up to about 8 or 10% of the total raw materials, or it can be dried and scattered thinly under fruit trees and flowering shrubs.

 

[Scrappy4]

from http://quantumagriculture.com/blog/homemade-phosphorus-fertilizer

If most folks can't or won't take the time and effort to make compost I really can't see many making homemade phosphorus either.

I don't even use bone meal anymore after reading how little phosphorus is needed. I feel your time is better used by making what phosphorus is in the soil available to plants. Like using diverse plant based inputs and have a good microbe population to make them available for plants to use.

And then there is the issue about phosphorus pollution....scrappy

 

[c-ray]

that's cool, we are on the cusp of a revolution so soon 'most folks' will be learning how to make the best compost possible and learning how to grow the highest quality nutrient dense food possible..

as Hugh says:
"to jump start the phosphorus process"

 

[YosemiteSam]

So I just recently broke out the refactometer and was thinking I would get a higher number then I got.. Right inline with what OBsoul was getting. About 5- 5.5. The highest I got was a 7.

I was very disappointed. I got the same on a few different strains and different places on the plant and different times of day.

My plants look great not a sign of deficiency on them and I had thrips bad, I was spraying and then stopped because I ran out of neem. Well the thrips were starting to come back, that was right around the time Imade my own soil mix and stopped using bottled nutes (General Organics) and went to all herbal teas, sprout teas, aloe and humics. I can't say they are completely gone but now I have to look for damage.

I was really hoping for a higher number.

So I was thinking maybe the plants are just pumping all the sugars into the flowers which I don't want to take down or press for obvious reasons to see their numbers.

I went to a couple of clones I transplanted about 5 days ago from some friends. They are not in the most Ideal conditions so they are lagging a little. Also I know my friends used superthrive on them during cloning plus what ever else botani-crap has throw at them.

Well I pressed one of those leaves and got a 9.5. I was shocked.

What do you guys more experienced with these things have to say about this?

I know this is kind of uncharted ground in some respects and this is only a tool to gauge what is happening and is very variable, but is there any base numbers you guys have seen?
Just curious, I plan on making a chart when I get things a little more synchronized her in my garden.

Thanks all.

Timbuktu

When you take the samples matters...a lot. When you get close to lights out the plants start dumping sugars into the roots...you can watch it drop by taking a few measurements.

It is all about mineral balance vs the exact cec of your soil. Being organic....while a great goal all by itself does not guarantee a good balance.

Ca:Mg is the main player, enough B and enough P. Beyond that the next best way to raise brix is to replace nitrate with ammoniacal N sources (less water taken up by the leaf).

And, I am almost afraid to say this out loud cause of my favorite thread, but...if you combine sap pH readings you can really get a handle on things in a hurry. My next toy...sap EC meter.

 

[c-ray]

on my wish list too

 

[YosemiteSam]

I went to a couple of clones I transplanted about 5 days ago from some friends. They are not in the most Ideal conditions so they are lagging a little. Also I know my friends used superthrive on them during cloning plus what ever else botani-crap has throw at them.

Well I pressed one of those leaves and got a 9.5. I was shocked.

What do you guys more experienced with these things have to say about this?



Timbuktu

Did your friends also use a nute with CaNO3 in it? Say what you want about it...in fresh soil that has not had time to solubalize (if that is even a word) all of the minerals it is pure genius. The highest Ca solubility of any fertilizer...and no it won't kill your microbes unless you overdo it and jack up the EC of your soil.

Bruce Tainio made extensive use of it.

 

[VortexPower420]

Thanks YS

I think my problem may be B. and my Ca:Mg ratio may be off. and on a suggestion from C-ray my K ratio is off.

I will tell with a soil test and experimentation. I need to be more diligent with my process to get better results and really see what helps that plants.

My brix might not be the best but I and my ladies are quite happy.

Thanks guys.

Timbuktu

 

[VortexPower420]

Did your friends also use a nute with CaNO3 in it? Say what you want about it...in fresh soil that has not had time to solubalize (if that is even a word) all of the minerals it is pure genius. The highest Ca solubility of any fertilizer...and no it won't kill your microbes unless you overdo it and jack up the EC of your soil.

Bruce Tainio made extensive use of it.

No I don't know what they really use. I was making a jab at botainicare. The clones looked nice but not at all better then my plants with a 4 point lower Brix.

Also I don't think that my brix is affected by any forms of N, I could be wrong, Because all I use is Fish Hydrolyse and fast alfalfa soaks. Just my thinking.

Timbuktu

 

[OrganicBuds]

And, I am almost afraid to say this out loud cause of my favorite thread, but...if you combine sap pH readings you can really get a handle on things in a hurry. My next toy...sap EC meter.

You got a model your lookin at? I was in the market myself, was looking at nutri-tech's. Post up a good brand or model if you got it, thanks. BTW, what's your favorite thread?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Horiba...I have not looked at a model number yet.

This is my favorite article on cation-anion balance http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Feb07_CationAnionConnection.pdf

Fish and alfalfa are great sources of N...they are not negatively affecting brix. I really like the fact that fish has a complete amino profile...excellent microbe food

 

[VortexPower420]

I really like the fact that fish has a complete amino profile...excellent microbe food


I agree I use a little all the time, I don't remember where but I do recall someone saying that the plants can use the oils as well.

Timbuktu

 

[c-ray]

http://rockdustlocal.com

 

[SeaMaiden]

I contacted those folks last year, got some response, then nothing. I think my goal is going to be to keep the loop as closed as possible. I live in the flippin' Sierra Nevada in California, I know we've got a huge variety of rock types. Just gotta find 'em.

I'm not sure if this question was asked previously, but it's a very cloudy day and I figure why not practice on everything I can get my hands on? I have buttloads of cover crops going, why not try to get a reading off of them? Then, it occurred to me that lots of folks are growing indoors, so the next question is this--what light to view refractometer under, and how much of a difference does it make? Fluoros give a good reading and show whether the line is clear or wavy/blurry? What about incandescents? LEDs? Does spectrum/color make a huge difference?

If this has been answered, just let me know, but we've got that three character search limiter going on here and my searches aren't netting me answers to the question of light conditions in this context.

 

[W89]

I contacted those folks last year, got some response, then nothing

Not surprised.....

 

[FatherEarth]

I know a handful of people using the cheap meters and getting accurate readings. I spent more on my other meters and went with the cheap refractometer. Seems to work just fine. For me the
BRIX % doesnt have to be pinpoint accurate, for what reason? Maybe if I was brewing or testing my grapes for wine... under 20$ on amazon automatic temperature compensation, brix from 0-30


checking calibration with distilled h2O


Reading prior to entering into flowering

 

[YosemiteSam]

Damn Father Earth...you got some skills.

How did you get that pic?