Ok so the reason for using coco is that is what is available at the location i will be buying the other components (compost, pumice, loam). For whatever reason they do not carry peat moss. Yes there are other places but not in my area that will deliver. I am going light on amendments on purpose, because they will be recieving regular feedings of MaxSea. I understand i am not getting an advantage using coco outside over peat moss I am just trying to figure out if it will work...
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Ok so the reason for using coco is that is what is available at the location i will be buying the other components (compost, pumice, loam). For whatever reason they do not carry peat moss. Yes there are other places but not in my area that will deliver. I am going light on amendments on purpose, because they will be recieving regular feedings of MaxSea. I understand i am not getting an advantage using coco outside over peat moss I am just trying to figure out if it will work...
Good soil and proper genetics...without them your season is over before it even begins.
S
SeaMaiden
I personally would swap the amounts of compost:topsoil, but would make it more like 40% topsoil & 20% compost. However, I have a guy who makes really good topsoil that only needs a little amending (extra N and Ca for the stuff that gets blossom end rot). I would also consider incorporating something like rice hulls if you can get them, and I still like adding sand to my mixes.
I just read your pricing. When I go with amended topsoil I end up paying a little more than $36/yd. No coir in that topsoil, no peat, either. The base soil mix is $33/yd, delivered.
So i have decided not to run anything from clone this year outside. instead i will be popping my ak47 x sssdh s1s very nice vigor quick finish and huge fuckin buds! let the seedlings sprout!! 2013 here we come good luck to all my large plant growers
warthog
Member
yeah im gunna have to agree with the peat over the coco anyday of the week. Ive always grown with peat, and a nice amount of it in my mix(40-50%)...always had great results with it and it always holds nutes very well. Ive heard nutes leach out of coco mixes fairly quickly so i tend to stay away. Ide say coco mixes are more of a bottled type of grow.
Nah i dont use em and dont know of anyone els who does except for guerilla growers. Ide say stay away since you already have a high amount of strong nutrients in your mix. No need for overkill.. less is more!
Nah i dont use em and dont know of anyone els who does except for guerilla growers. Ide say stay away since you already have a high amount of strong nutrients in your mix. No need for overkill.. less is more!
ak47 x sssdh sounds like some serious smoke, and a serious plant..
V
Veg N Out
Your mix is going to be very dense like this..if its your first year out skip all the guess work and use the mix in the second post of this thread..you will come out ahead
I can't find anything to support this. I have done quite a bit of looking around now, and everything I find (that isn't from a canna website) seems to say coco and peat have similar CEC's. Got a link for me I can check out? Or did you find this out by doing your own soil tests?
V
Veg N Out
Its impossible for coir and peat to have the same cec due to their inherent properties ..peat moss is for cannabis, coir is for nft lettuce in singapore
http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf
Nearly everything in coir had reduced yield and vigor..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991072
http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf
Nearly everything in coir had reduced yield and vigor..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991072
I think a base mix around 50% peat,25% coco,25% compost is a decent well balanced place to start. Then a lot of ewc,and lots of other amendments. Some peeps prefer more compost.
My soil mixes are always evolving and improving,based on trying new new things and learning from experiences.
Been getting that itch since Jan. Almost time to rock and roll.
My soil mixes are always evolving and improving,based on trying new new things and learning from experiences.
Been getting that itch since Jan. Almost time to rock and roll.
GoldCountryGuy
Member
anyone who has any coco in the mix has a serious misunderstanding at level 1 of gardening.....please get ahold of me for better ideas ppl who r bogging this thread down and ppl who have been here since overgrow that still have a shitty mix lol
GoldCountryGuy
Member
look else for better info. not gonna say dumbass but ur flirting with it.
GoldCountryGuy: Dude,where'd the animosity and negativity come from in the last two posts?
I prefer peat to coco for a few reasons. However coco is a lot more affordable than peat. When mixing or buying a lot of soil,adding some coco to the base can help keep things economical. The price of peat goes up every year as does coco,but peat is substantially more expensive.
Indoors i've def seen people kill it getting 2.25 per light with coco,same with soil. I def appreciate the simplicity of coco indoors.
Let's keep it respectful and not insulting,
Peace..
I prefer peat to coco for a few reasons. However coco is a lot more affordable than peat. When mixing or buying a lot of soil,adding some coco to the base can help keep things economical. The price of peat goes up every year as does coco,but peat is substantially more expensive.
Indoors i've def seen people kill it getting 2.25 per light with coco,same with soil. I def appreciate the simplicity of coco indoors.
Let's keep it respectful and not insulting,
Peace..
Read this tech sheet, the analysis includes the CEC for this particular peat moss. Find one that has a better CEC and I will switch today.
9$ a bale that expands to 7 cu ft+ when and moistened. Ive heard it gets cheaper in some areas especially by the pallet.
9$ a bale that expands to 7 cu ft+ when and moistened. Ive heard it gets cheaper in some areas especially by the pallet.
No disrespect GRS, but for a few extra coins you can have a medium that holds more nutrients and doesnt burn your plants without rinsing the stuff over and over. Even the coco that claims no salts and pre rinsed has a high salt ppm reading. Most people I see growing in coir have toasted leaves. IMO its a pita to have to rinse something before I use it. I used to grow hydro before I knew better, coco isnt choice as a medium for cannabis.
Respectfully,
FE
And BTW I havent ever seen 7cu ft of coir for 9$, ever...
Respectfully,
FE
And BTW I havent ever seen 7cu ft of coir for 9$, ever...
I hear you. I personally have never used coco in a mix outdoors,but have helped friends come up with mixes with coco and they've had good results. In no way am I endorsing coco. Just suggesting it can add diversity to the base of a soil mix with peat,compost,as well as other ingredients.
For bagged mixes I've tested Royal Gold coco and been unimpressed. Noticed plants lack sturdiness compared to peat based mixes.
Indoors I've used lots of mediums and have had good results with coco recently,but still use peat base soils in most of my space. I'm a pretty keep in simple type guy.
Damn,9 $ a 7 cuft bale is a killer price. Is that in Ca,or before shipping costs?
For bagged mixes I've tested Royal Gold coco and been unimpressed. Noticed plants lack sturdiness compared to peat based mixes.
Indoors I've used lots of mediums and have had good results with coco recently,but still use peat base soils in most of my space. I'm a pretty keep in simple type guy.
Damn,9 $ a 7 cuft bale is a killer price. Is that in Ca,or before shipping costs?
Oregon, I went to the nursery and picked it up. Call premier for delivery prices by the pallet... I think it may be cheaper in CA...
WTF man? CEC isn't an important part of outdoor growing? You talk of bogging down the thread yet you post two pointless posts?
Anyway, this link states that the CEC of the average coco tested in these tests are 75-186
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991072
This link shows the average cec of peat being 100-200
http://www.extension.uidaho.edu/nursery/Landscape problems/Substrate/CEC and CN ratio.PDF
Seems pretty close to me? Does that little extra cec value make a big difference? What is a small variance in cec? What is a large variance?
In this study it shows that vermiculite also has a similar cec?
I know you guys know your shit, I am trying to learn my shit as well. Thanks to everybody that actually helps the guy in need.
Wow, 150-250 cec. That is the highest in the 20 studies I looked at. Not bad at all.
One last thing..... I can't find exact values, but every study I find shows EWC has a higher cec than compost. Does that mean everybody should be using EWC, and anybody that is using compost is missing out? Just like anybody using coco doesn't even know the first thing about gardening? Are other factors at play? If so, what are they and what makes compost better than EWC, peat better than coco ect. (other than cec)
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