Project SAM: The Danger of "rational" pot policy

[DreamsofTesla]

Good thoughts Tesla. While I personally have no problem with a titty bar atmosphere, naked ganja girls etc. - in fact I enjoy it! - I do see where it might be a bit off-putting for some.

Yes, well this tends to be more popular with men by default. Speaking as a grown woman, I can tell you it's more than off-putting, it's belittling. Bottom line, you're not going to get professional women to sign on in any large numbers with that being the prevailing context.

However, everything from cruises to shampoo and most things in between are advertised with sexy images. The advertising gurus know that sex sells. Always has and always will. Some are offended, some aren't.

I have come to realize more in the last few years how many women really don't appreciate it. It's a higher number than you think, because a lot of the time if I woman speaks up about it she gets attacked. When you give them a chance to weigh in anonymously it's not even close, like 80% hate it. And there's really no escaping from it. If you could put yourself in our shoes you'd see it entirely differently.

It doesn't have to be the way it is forever more. It's not healthy to use us as things, advertising props. It's dehumanizing and demoralizing. You'd hate it if it was done to you constantly. So if our community wants to get women on board, we need to correct course on this IMHO.

To give the devils their due, most of the ads I see in the magazines are pretty tasteful. Not rude and crude like lots of titty bars are.

Again, I think if you were a woman you might be more sensitive to it. Men have very high thresholds for this. Put it this way, if we had the final say in it that shit would get ratcheted all the way back.

Granted it's not quite the same given the already sketchy reputation of the cannabis community, More important, I think, is creating an atmosphere that allays mothers' fears that their kids will somehow be sucked into a life of addiction and debauchery if pot's legalized. Historically, pandering to that fear has been a key tactic in any number of questionable moral imperatives.

*Exactly* And you don't even need to make the case to get women to feel that way about it. We see those images and balk, no explanation required. For me personally, when I object to something that bothers me and get attacked for that, it makes me hate it that much more the next time.

[quoteSabet and Kennedy and their ilk push the treatment paradigm.[/quote]

Right. Kevin Sabet, I have no idea what his malfunction is. He talks out of both sides of his face, but at least does seem sincere. Kennedy is an alcoholic and pill addict, son of a moonshiner. Has done all kinds of things while drunk that would get you or me doing hard time. So he should go ahead and STFU.

Frum is just an irrelevant little dweeb, says whatever they hire him to say.

By the way, thanks for pointing me to the Russ Belville show. Good stuff.

YW. He does a good job.

<3 Tesla

 

[Midnight Smoker]

What a great exchange of ideas. Some very good observations and well expressed points of view, that triggered some neurons to relate to and understand the different feelings better.

Sex Sells, and Sigmund Fraud's nephew really started the science of Marketing in the 1940’s or so. Considered a marketing genius, he came up with the notion that in order to make people "consume" more goods, you had to make them THINK that they would feel better buying the product, otherwise people would only buy what they needed. Looking back, I think the influence is partially subconscious, and manipulative. Gender aside, sex sells both ways. What is interesting here is the total use of female imagery.

Your exchange made me think about how similar the ads in these magazines are to those in motorcycle magazines. I think I understand why motorcycle magazines would have a predominately male audience, much different from the MJ audience, or so I assumed. Follow the money. It would appear that males spend much more money on what the magazines are selling, and that is where the advertising budget goes. Fanciful sexy imagery which triggers our deeper brain to think about our most subconscious drive to procreate (if you are a guy) so you make a subconscious "feeling" association between sex and the product. You need the product to survive.

I remember the days when cigarettes were advertised everywhere. The images were bi- sexual, so to say. They catered to both genders. You had "The Marlborough Man" and "Virginia Slims" on the same page.

I never thought about the one-sided imagery before and what that might imply. Is there a large difference in the gender of pot smokers? Why does one become a pot smoker? Because they like the feeling? Self-medicating? Just rebelling?

In a quandary I sought my girlfriend’s opinion. We discussed how most sexual advertising exploits the female body; even "Cosmo" is full of this "Sex Sells" imagery and illusion. Our conclusion was that both men and women related to the sensual female image. For the man it is "buy this and you might end up with someone like this", for women it is "buy this and you might end up looking like this".

Again I think all this is geared towards our subconscious which controls much more than we realize. We all bring different things to the table. For the majority, this female sexual fantasy illusion does sell most of us on some level. IMHO

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Our conclusion was that both men and women related to the sensual female image. For the man it is "buy this and you might end up with someone like this", for women it is "buy this and you might end up looking like this". For the majority, this female sexual fantasy illusion does sell most of us on some level. IMHO

Right, I think there's a lot of merit to what you've said.

As a younger woman it was extremely difficult for me to break out of the mold you describe, which basically boils down to competing with other women for male approval. In other words, this is who they want, this is who you should be. How does your face stack up to hers? Your thighs? etc.

However, once you move past that, it's like a bell that can't be un-rung. I can appreciate the beauty of the women in the ads, but it still strikes me as a little hoop being held out for me to jump through. I may be older than your girlfriend

<3 Tesla
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[Bongstar420]

Religion is popular. This guy sounds like a priest!

 

[Agaricus]

Points well taken, Tesla.

After reading your post I worked some of those themes into conversations with women and some of their ideas were scary. In general they agreed that objectification of women wasn't a good thing but it was mainly an "oh well" attitude. That was mild. Not unexpected.

What was scary was some of their thoughts regarding violence against women. A couple of them actually believed that "the women asked for it." Or that "he only yells at her, that's not violence." They sounded like apologists for the Rush Limbaugh crowd. Overdone porkchops as good reason for a beating.

It may be their early conditioning. Those who seemed to believe this were women in their late fifties and early sixties who were brought up in a very conservative setting.

Whatever the reason, it was unbelievable to me that women would be so accepting of being abused. Is this the attitude that makes women stay with abusive "men?" Read that spoiled little bully brats in grown-up bodies.

But that's off the topic of "sex sells." Just an extreme extension of some of that attitude.

Anyway, 'most all cultures have had their ideas and images of physical perfection both male and female. That in itself isn't unusual. I think that what's different is that with magazines like Cosmo, with the current national obsession with weight and fitness and appearance in general, most of us are being more and more marginalized and stereotyped. Not just women.

Lazy fat slob. Lazy twinkie-sucking stoner. Not to mention racial stereotypes, the kind that were used to demonize weed back in the Anslinger/Hurst campaign.

Hell, this is way off the original topic but it's interesting to look at regional and cultural differences in attitude. Speculate on why some beliefs, though to many of us just plain wrong, are still so prevalent. They didn't just spring up out of nowhere. Maybe I should have studied sociology instead of engineering, the older I get the more i wonder.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Thanks for your thoughts, Agaricus.

I agree, it's tragic how much shit most women put up with. I've thought about it a lot. Basically the key is what you described as "oh well." There's a resignation to how shitty the world is and how we're going to be treated in it. Trust me, when you decide to set your own baseline for respect, as I have, there's a very heavy price to be paid for this. It puts you at odds with almost the entire world.

Henry Rollins recently wrote about Steubenville, and like me, he drew a direct line between the constant sexual objectification of women and sexual violence. Awesome to see a man connecting the dots in this way.

http://henryrollins.com/dispatch/detail/dispatch_03-17-12_los_angeles/

 

[mwz]

Want to know how to get more women on board? Discourage all the objectification and the "titty bar" atmosphere that carries the day among a lot of smokers. Check out any magazine and most of the ads, half naked women, women posing seductively with smoking items, private parts covered only by leaves.

Excellent! I agree with what you're saying. In addition, I think that re-branding the pot smoker image is important. Break down negative pot stereo types and build up and market positive ones!

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Excellent! I agree with what you're saying. In addition, I think that re-branding the pot smoker image is important. Break down negative pot stereo types and build up and market positive ones!

Check out www.marijuanamajority.com, this is exactly their approach and I agree 100%.