time for an upgarde? how would you do it?

[soursmoker]

Ok guys before I get into any details, just want to give a heads up. I am strictly a micro grower... I don't plan on building a whole room/basement. Atleast not right now...

Up til now I have always grown in cabs. I mostly use CFLs, right now I'm using a combo of PLLs and CFLs in my flowering cab.

I have been thinking that the time may come very soon when I need to upgrade to HPS to achieve the yields I am hoping for.

Now some of you may laugh and say what's the point in upgrading?

My plan is to purchase the 30"x18"x36"(h) tent from gotham_products on ebay. A member on here with their name starting with bueno, is using this tent with a 150w hps lighting it and seems to be pulling some good results.

I am looking at the sun system 150w hps from Plant lighting hydroponics. they have the best deal on this light.

Now I'm left with ventilation, I was thinking bout just getting a fan from homedepot but idk where to get a good carbon filter. So then I was thinking I'll just buy the combo from gotham_products as well. What do you guys think?

The plan here is to switch to HPS without converting my current cabs, and do it for under $300 dollars.


The thought has crossed my mind, "We'll Im already getting an HPS might as well just go bigger"

But for a 400w hps ballast and bulb and all accessories, that almost sits me at $300 right there and the tents cost more the bigger you go...


So guys what are your thoughts? How should I make my conversion to HPS?

 

[mpd]

You can get a used 400 watt magnetic ballast on ebay for a song. I bought one for $75 delivered to my door. What's not to like about that? You add a socket for $10 and then you do the wiring - another $8 and you are there.

 

[habeeb]

how much pot do you need? answer this, then find your answer

 

[soursmoker]

Now I'm left with ventilation

this was my main question.

I dont plan on going higher than 150watts. Im not ready to try and cool that much heat...

 

[messn'n'gommin']

How would I do it? I would ask myself the question Habeeb posed and go from there.

Basically, I see three options, just one 150 and supplement with fluoro's, two 150's, or a 250 in that size space.

Check magnetic c&c ballasts (under industrial) at fleabay. I got two 250's for less than $50, shipped. After 25' heavy duty (10-12awg) extension cord, plugs, and sockets, I have about $100 total in them.

Granted, with reflector/s and a decent fan, that is going to put you around what you wanted to spend total before the tent. But, for one 150, parts, reflector, and fan, I'm guessing about $200 +/-.

 

[soursmoker]

How would I do it? I would ask myself the question Habeeb posed and go from there.

Basically, I see three options, just one 150 and supplement with fluoro's, two 150's, or a 250 in that size space.

Check magnetic c&c ballasts (under industrial) at fleabay. I got two 250's for less than $50, shipped. After 25' heavy duty (10-12awg) extension cord, plugs, and sockets, I have about $100 total in them.

Granted, with reflector/s and a decent fan, that is going to put you around what you wanted to spend total before the tent. But, for one 150, parts, reflector, and fan, I'm guessing about $200 +/-.

Hey man thanks for the response. I was considering pick up this light because of the price and simplicity. Only $60 and if I want I can remote ballast it later.

Mostly I'm just trying to figure out how to go about ventilating my tent. It is goiing to be 2.5'x1.5'x3'

There's a guy on here using the panasonic whisper but I'm leaning more towards a 4in inline so in the future I will already have an inline fan...

Have any of you guys used this combo?


EDIT: to answer yours and habeebs question, I don't need any amount. I looking to do this to cheaply add some flowering space, and in the process upgrade to HPS lighting.

but anywhere from 2-4 zips would be the goal...

 

[RM - aquagrower]

For your ventilation, get ya a 4" vortex with a speed controller. That way you've got it for the next timw ya are wanting to upgrade.

The home made filter found here worked well in a bigger set up then yours. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=29402

Good luck

 

[Jnugg]

I'd go with a 250w HPS in that area (2.5' x 1.5' = 3.75 square feet).

A 150w HPS will put you @ 40w per sq. foot but you'll want to supply a minimum of 50w per sq. foot.A 250w HPS will put you in the sweetspot @ 66w per sq. foot.

So a 250w HPS with a 4" 170cfm inline centrifugal exhaust fan (vortex,can fan,elicient,hurricane,eco plus) should keep the lights on temperature in the tent about 5°F above ambient temperature (temperature of room the tent sits in and draws fresh air from).

 

[soursmoker]

I'd go with a 250w HPS in that area (2.5' x 1.5' = 3.75 square feet).

A 150w HPS will put you @ 40w per sq. foot but you'll want to supply a minimum of 50w per sq. foot.A 250w HPS will put you in the sweetspot @ 66w per sq. foot.

So a 250w HPS with a 4" 170cfm inline centrifugal exhaust fan (vortex,can fan,elicient,hurricane,eco plus) should keep the lights on temperature in the tent about 5°F above ambient temperature (temperature of room the tent sits in and draws fresh air from).

Thank you for your response. I also had the same thoughts at first but the only reason I posted this thread and have this idea is because of this grow. this guy is rocking strictly 150w HPS with the same situation you described. This guy is pulling what I would consider to be good, consistent harvests, over 3 zips. If you go to the last 4 pages of his thread you will see his most recent grow and a few comments after he posts his final weights on that grow.
I have found ways to possibly squeeze another 2 or 3 whole zips out of that setup. And to me that would be awesome.

Oh and as far as the whole watts/sq ft thing. I may add some cfls to supplement. But based on that guys results. That bulb, in that tent, is plenty adequate to produce dense nugs.

 

[Jnugg]

Just so you know,your results may vary from the last guy to the next guy running same setup,even strain.I strongly suggest the 250w HPS but if your sold on the 150w HPS then go for it.

 

[soursmoker]

I totally understands results may vary. And 250 does sound good but the heat doesn't sound good, I would like to be able to run this is the summer no problem. And the 150 is $60 delivered, ready to plug in, with the option to remote ballast if i feel like it later. A 250 would be over $100 total which makes me sound cheap but I really just want this to expand flowering space for minimal investment. $75(tent)+$60(light)+$190(fan/filter/muffler/speed controller)=$325. I dont want this to be more than a $400 project.

And as far as results I have a pretty simple goal and I think it is very possible. I have order these pots called mini tree pots and they have mulptiple sizes. The two sizes I bought are 3"x8" and 4"x9.5". The bigger is just shy of a half gallon... I believe its .44 or something.

I can easily fit 18 of these in here, 20-21 would be squeezing it...
If I could pull even just 7 grams off each freshly rooted clone...
7x18=126...4.5 zips
7x20=140 5 zips

say I could maybe get 10 or 11 grams per plant...
10x18=180...6.43 zips
10x20=200...7.14 zips

lol

even better the smaller containers. 40 easily in this tent... say I can only get 5gs each plant since they are almost half the volume foor root mass,
5x40=200
right there we are already back at 7.14 zips lol

and last time I checked 200g/150w equals 1.33 gpw
and it doesnt look to hard to achieve on numbers...
As long as these HPS are as good as everyone says they are! Lol

 

[Jnugg]

It ain't easy to get a GPW I'll tell you that much.Best I've ever done so far is.6 GPW and that's in soil under a 400w HPS.If you're growing clones from the same mother it will make things a little easier but there's more variables.A 250w HPS wont run much hotter than a 150w HPS.According to this chart :

A grow that houses a 150w HPS paired with an unrestricted 200cfm exhaust fan will have a lights on temperature of about 2.5° F to 3°F above ambient.A grow with a 250w HPS paired with an unrestricted 200cfm exhaust fan should have a lights on temperature about 4° F above ambient.

With an appropriate sized filter attached to your fan and proper intake area I don't see the cab getting iver 7° F to 10°F with a 250w HPS.

If you don't mind me asking,what will the ambient temps be (temperature of the room the tent will sit in and draw it's intake air from?

BTW,you can get a 250w HPS Lumatek ballast for $118 shipped from Amazon right now
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002JB41L2/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1361417063&sr=8-2&pi=SL75

If you can't budge a lil on you're budget that's understandable though.

But just to throw it out there so you know you got some options...you can get one of these el cheapo ballast,reflector kits from amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004D4X470/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1361417328&sr=1-1-fkmr0&pi=SL75

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009HVVN1S/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1361417328&sr=1-2-fkmr0&pi=SL75

 

[soursmoker]

hey man before I go further I just wanna say I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to try and help me. I don't want you to think I am just ignoring your advice or anything.

with that being said, I totally agree that GPW is not easy by any means. I also agree that a 250w would probably do a better job overall, but, based on that guys results, If i could just get .5GPW I would be happy with 3 zips on my first run, then dial it in from there...


As far as the light, I've always told myself I would wait until time/money was right to fully upgrade. Always said wait til you have enough for a 400/600/1000 plus all accessories and the space to use it. Well I finally broke down and realized I needed an HPS sooner than i wanted.

The thought process for me is, shell out $150-175 for 250w plus all extras, OR buy 150w for $60, test it in my current cab (not tent) if it does better than my current light setup, Purchase another along with the tent, fan/filter etc...

Then I will be spending $120(still less than 250w) for 2- 150s and will be able to have two seperate chambers both being powered by 150w HPS. This might sound crazy to you, But this is a big upgrade from my current position.

I would rather have 2 seperate 150w HPS stations then 1 250w station that I would have trouble cooling.

I don't know exact ambient temps because I am in the attic and the temps fluctuate based on weather because it is not well insulated.

for winter I would say ambient is around 60 degrees, for summer It could easily go up to like 85 degrees. Thats why I don't even want to bother with a 250w because I'll still be pulling more for less light investment and less electricity usage.


Do you see what I'm saying here?

 

[hp5273]

Ever considered Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) instead of HPS? I've been using one of these 150W digital ballasts with 150w CMH bulbs for a couple of years.

Very happy with the combo; cheap, quiet, no RF interference. Biggest benefit is that it runs much cooler than the mag ballast and 150W HPS bulbs that it replaced. Enough cooler that it can easily be augmented with 2x42W CFLs.

My cabinet is 16"x30"x64" - ventilation is handled by a 4" Fantech inline exhausting through a carbon filter (one of these - an easy DIY project). Temps never go above 75F, ambient is usually 68-70F.

Here are 2 F13s from a couple of years ago - they were clones and took about 3 months of vegging/training. Medium was 2.5gal coco hempy buckets. Each plant was easily 2+ oz dry.

 

[Jnugg]

85° ambient is too hot.

 

[soursmoker]

Ever considered Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) instead of HPS? I've been using one of these 150W digital ballasts with 150w CMH bulbs for a couple of years.

Very happy with the combo; cheap, quiet, no RF interference. Biggest benefit is that it runs much cooler than the mag ballast and 150W HPS bulbs that it replaced. Enough cooler that it can easily be augmented with 2x42W CFLs.

My cabinet is 16"x30"x64" - ventilation is handled by a 4" Fantech inline exhausting through a carbon filter (one of these - an easy DIY project). Temps never go above 75F, ambient is usually 68-70F.

Here are 2 F13s from a couple of years ago - they were clones and took about 3 months of vegging/training. Medium was 2.5gal coco hempy buckets. Each plant was easily 2+ oz dry.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36891&pictureid=1021243View Image

I have considered CMH's before, I'm thinking about maybe getting this 150w kit. Then I will have the option to buy a CMH bulb and run it whenever I feel like it, is this correct?

85° ambient is too hot.

thats not an exact accurate reading just a guess. I have a/c in room to keep the grow temp no higher than 88° roughly, probably closer to 85°.