Is Juicing Cannabis Better for Health Than Smoking It?

[Cabron]

Can anyone break down the medicinal differences when .....

Activating through heat such as canna butter and hemp oil
vs
Eating it in its raw form???

I was actually attempting to do just that in my post above.
You will have to understand first there are many different strains
which all have varying degrees of available compounds .

These alkaloids themselves are each being tested for their individual contributions and effects on various diseases currently across the globe in actual studies.

The alkaloids are
THC
THCA
CBD
CBDA
CBN
CBT
CBC
for starters,these are the most widely studied and focused on .


They vary from each other but when readily available they are proving to compliment each other very well in treatment .


The THC A and CBD A are being studied to prove effectiveness in cures when dosed in massive amounts which are harmless and non psychoactive as available with juicing .

It's this massive dosage that is proving to be key .


but when altered they are converted to the commonly known THC and CBD which have had the most study done and have been noted as being extremely effective for treating and fully curing or reversing terminal diseases such as Leukemia, most types of cancers,and auto immune diseases.

The THC itself is very effective in this endeavor and deserves respect as I'd venture to say that Rick Simpson's oil that he was and is using today has never been a lab tested high concentrate of CBD.

This current focus on CBD is relatively new , Rick has been procuring and making his oil with Indica dominant strains since he has started and anybody testing hotrod indicas in a lab will see a very small amount of CBD .

But it's this very oil that he has been very successful in reversing cancer in thousands to date.
I've had some of my best Indicas test at only 2 to 2.5 % cbd so far but are all over 20% THC.

I know Rick surely wasn't aware nor had available any strains such as Cannatonic to cure the cancers .

My current goal is to mix an oil with 15 -18% CBD from a Cannatonic that I will acquire shortly with an equal amount of THC in one of my Chem or OG phenos I have for my MS and cancer patients .

I'm most interested and hopeful to prove that studies I've read claim that the pairing of equal amounts actually stifles the psychoactive effect of the THC , while allowing a very high amount of these alkaloids to be used in the body to eradicate cancerous cell growth.


for a better understanding on thca and cbda I feel Dr William Courtney is a leader in this field...

http://www.cannabisinternational.org/about.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-iU9QN0fEM

 

[Cabron]

Know that if pursuing Juicing it's actually extremely important to purchase a masticating type such as the infamous Omega 8006 or if you're filthy rich the norwalk is a press type
that will work well .

The reason is they have in tests with studies delving into the Gerson Therapy have concluded that high velocity centrifuge types (which are most prevalent and cheapest alter the bio mechanical properties of many desirable concentrates during the process due to altering it at a electron level.


I'd hate to think you were trying to heal a dying person and preparing a concentrated juice and unknowingly making useless medicine.


I personally have the Omega 8006 and love it .

My preparations and use of raw cannabis is new but I'm excited about it.

 

[Cabron]

Excellent post cabron

Thanks Vert

 

[Cabron]

Here's enough food to keep the researcher busy for a bit ..
feel free to tear into every corner of this site...


http://www.kingstoncompassion.org/cannabinoid/cannabinoid-biosynthesis/

 

[Thule]

Good thread, lot's of answers to questions I've had. It was and is my understanding that ingesting oxidized THC instead of raw juiced bud would be more benefical in treating cancers. Any other conditions?

When would juicing be the best option then? Or is it more like a tonic for overall well being? Based on what I know, if I had cancer I would do both. Juicing raw seeded buds in chaga tea and pomegranate juice plus high cbd edibles with moderate thc levels to remain sane.

 

[Thule]

Know that if pursuing Juicing it's actually extremely important to purchase a masticating type such as the infamous Omega 8006 or if you're filthy rich the norwalk is a press type
that will work well .

The reason is they have in tests with studies delving into the Gerson Therapy have concluded that high velocity centrifuge types (which are most prevalent and cheapest alter the bio mechanical properties of many desirable concentrates during the process due to altering it at a electron level.


I'd hate to think you were trying to heal a dying person and preparing a concentrated juice and unknowingly making useless medicine.


I personally have the Omega 8006 and love it .

My preparations and use of raw cannabis is new but I'm excited about it.

I've read about this electron thing before but I don't really get the science behind that. Why do electrons matter here? I see recommendations on raw food sites telling me to eat raw eggs intact, as not to mess it up on 'electron level'. Since I really prefer blending them inside a choco smoothie I'd like to know what possible harm is there in doing so.

 

[vertigo0007]

I would like to know the dif between juicing a leaf that was just pulled off and one that was "fresh frozen" and in the freezer for months. Also how long does the juice keep? Can it be frozen? Do the acidic cannabinoids cure out and become active to the point of getting high like an edible? Ive had canna juice lots of times and, altho there is a sensation associated with it, it never gets me 'high', but it was always from fresh leaf

 

[Chunkypigs]

I went to LA 3 years ago to go to a lecture with Dr Courtney and his wife. At that time they were advocating growing and juicing an entire ripe plant each day. Buds included. I had sampled the juice they made at the demo and started doing it at home myself some months later. I only used fresh frozen leaf and larf. I'd save it up and then juice a bunch and freeze the juice in ice cube trays. I'd throw a couple cubes in a glass of fruit juice and drink it 4 or more times a day. it was a dirty messy project and I felt that smoking was
giving me the best relief so I just lost interest after a while.

I can't see myself working hard enough to harvest a fully ripe plant everyday and drink it's juice. can't afford it and I don't have the energy.

perhaps in legal states there could be enough excess fan leaves where producing lots of juice would be feasible. weed will have to get much cheaper before people throw 2 zips of prime bud in the blender every morning...

 

[skunkbear]

Oh DON'T WORRY! I tried juicing the plant . I almost had to strap a toilet to my ass.
The gas it caused smelled like strong skunk.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

This plain wrong THC does not break down into Cannabidol, get your science straight.
-SamS

actually THC is in higher concentrations when "uncured".. THC causes the undesirable symptoms of ganja that are antagonistic to the other cannabinoids.. the later the harvest and the longer the cure the more time there is for it to break down into cannabidiol and all the others, that do already exist in the plant just not in the desirable concentrations.. THCs over use in the lexicon associated with cannabis is a bit of a misnomer..

juicing is basically taking the fresh plant material and blending it up..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Actually in fresh Cannabis the primary cannabinoids are THCA and CBDA as well as any other cannabinoids, in their acid form. I think that is what you meant?
-SamS

In fresh cannabis the primary cannabinoids are the acid form of thc THCA and CBD which are formed by the same enzymatic system in the cannabis plant seperated by one enzyme in the final step, via the deoxyxylulose pathway. When drying the plant the inacitive tetrahydrocannabolicacid (thca) is is decarboxylated to the active form which is THC. This decarboxylation can be accomplished by heating as well which is why I heat my ethanolic extract to evaporate the alcohol and accomplish a more compete decarboxylation in the same step. If you do not want thc do not dry or heat the material.
HM

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

FYI, this is not true.

"Among the strains of Cannabis, C. sativa tends toward the CB1 receptor, and C. indica tends toward CB2. So sativa is more neuroactive, and indica is more immunoactive. Another factor here is that sativa is dominated by THC cannabinoids, and indica is predominately CBD (cannabidiol)."

When you say Sativa I think you refer to NLD and Indica as WLD?
CBD does not bind to either receptor much at all.
-SamS

actually thc is very sought after for it's medicinal properties as much as CBD for bonding to CB1 and CB2 receptor sites.

THC A does very little in the way of matching receptors as it doesnt
bond to the cells .

It's a bummer as you'd really like to have your patient treated without the psychological effects of THc as opposed to THC A
with regards to cancer .'


Thus the search for a 1:1 thc to cbd ratio strain is desirable as the blend is being proven to be the most efficient for most diseases working in a synergistic manner .


THCA delivered in massive amounts in the form of juicing and not causing any psychoactive effects is an important factor with diseases such as MS and Lupus but isn't proven to do much in the way of cancer cures.


CBD and THC are the kings of the hill in oils and ingested for this ,
I have just taken on an inoperable lung cancer patient and we are using Simpson oil which has been decarboxylated for ingestion and use in a vaporizer immediately .

Since he has under gone Chemo on his whole chest region my thinking is the blood supply to his cancerous cells may have been compromised due to the cauterization effect that he has undergone and using a vaporizer with this oil is best suited to deliver the cannabinoids directly to benign cancerous cells via the alveoli .

He is in such pain that it's actually hard for him to fully inhale
The chemo has done so much damage to him ...


I pray he isn't damaged too badly for my oil to work ...



I feel Dennis Hill's work and analogies as to how the mechanics of this practice function are priceless and he's a saint !


Cancer-specific Cytotoxicity of Cannabinoids
By: Dennis Hill

First let's look at what keeps cancer cells alive, then we will come back and examine how the cannabinoids CBD (cannabidiol) and THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) unravels cancer's aliveness.

In every cell there is a family of interconvertible sphingolipids that specifically manage the life and death of that cell. This profile of factors is called the "Sphingolipid Rheostat." If ceramide (a signaling metabolite of sphingosine-1- phosphate) is high, then cell death (apoptosis) is imminent. If ceramide is low, the cell will be strong in its vitality.

Very simply, when THC connects to the CB1 or CB2 cannabinoid receptor site on the cancer cell, it causes an increase in ceramide synthesis which drives cell death. A normal healthy cell does not produce ceramide in the presence of THC, thus is not affected by the cannabinoid.
The cancer cell dies, not because of cytotoxic chemicals, but because of a tiny little shift in the mitochondria. Within most cells there is a cell nucleus, numerous mitochondria (hundreds to thousands), and various other organelles in the cytoplasm. the purpose of the mitochondria is to produce energy (ATP) for cell use. As ceramide starts to accumulate, turning up the Sphingolipid Rheostat, it increases the mitochondrial membrane pore permeability to cytochrome c, a critical protein in energy synthesis. Cytochrome c is pushed out of the mitochondria, killing the source of energy for the cell.

Ceramide also causes genotoxic stress in the cancer cell nucleus generating a protein called p53, whose job it is to disrupt calcium metabolism in the mitochondria. If this weren't enough, ceramide disrupts the cellular lysosome, the cell's digestive system that provides nutrients for all cell functions. Ceramide, and other sphingolipids, actively inhibit pro-survival pathways in the cell leaving no possibility at all of cancer cell survival.
The key to this process is the accumulation of ceramide in the system. This means taking therapeutic amounts of cannabinoid extract, steadily, over a period of time, keeping metabolic pressure on this cancer cell death pathway.

How did this pathway come to be? Why is it that the body can take a simple plant enzyme and use it for healing in many different physiological systems? This endocannabinoid system exists in all animal life, just waiting for it's matched exocannabinoid activator.
This is interesting. Our own endocannabinoid system covers all cells and nerves; it is the messenger of information flowing between our immune system andthe central nervous system (CNS). It is responsible for neuroprotection, and micro- manages the immune system. This is the primary control system that maintains homeostasis; our well being.

Just out of curiosity, how does the work get done at the cellular level, and where does the body make the endocannabinoids? Here we see that endocannabinoids have their origin in nerve cells right at the synapse. When the body is compromised through illness or injury it calls insistently to the endocannabinoid system and directs the immune system to bring healing. If these homeostatic systems are weakened, it should be no surprise that exocannabinoids perform the same function. It helps the body in the most natural way possible.

To see how this works we visualize the cannabinoid as a three dimensional molecule, where one part of the molecule is configured to fit the nerve or immune cell receptor site just like a key in a lock. There are at least two types of cannabinoid receptor sites, CB1 (CNS) and CB2 (immune). In general CB1 activates the CNS messaging system, and CB2 activates the immune system, but it's much more complex than this. Both THC and anandamide activate both receptor sites. Other cannabinoids activate one or the other receptor sites. Among the strains of Cannabis, C. sativa tends toward the CB1 receptor, and C. indica tends toward CB2. So sativa is more neuroactive, and indica is more immunoactive. Another factor here is that sativa is dominated by THC cannabinoids, and indica is predominately CBD (cannabidiol).

It is known that THC and CBD are biomimetic to anandamide, that is, the body can use both interchangeably. Thus, when stress, injury, or illness demand more from endogenous anandamide than can be produced by the body, its mimetic exocannabinoids are activated. If the stress is transitory, then the treatment can be transitory. If the demand is sustained, such as in cancer, then treatment needs to provide sustained pressure of the modulating agent on the homeostatic systems.

Typically CBD gravitates to the densely packed CB2 receptors in the spleen, home to the body's immune system. From there, immune cells seek out and destroy cancer cells. Interestingly, it has been shown that THC and CBD cannabinoids have the ability to kill cancer cells directly without going through immune intermediaries. THC and CBD hijack the lipoxygenase pathway to directly inhibit tumor growth. As a side note, it has been discovered that CBD inhibits anandamide reuptake. Here we see that cannabidiol helps the body preserve its own natural endocannabinoid by inhibiting the enzyme that breaks down anandamide.

This brief survey touches lightly on a few essential concepts. Mostly I would like to leave you with an appreciation that nature has designed the perfect medicine that fits exactly with our own immune system of receptors and signaling metabolites to provide rapid and complete immune response for systemic integrity and metabolic homeostasis.

~Dennis Hill

Bibliography
1. http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/65/5/1635.abstract
Sami Sarfaraz, Farrukh Afaq, Vaqar M. Adhami, and Hasan Mukhtar + Author Affiliations. Department of Dermatology, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed
J Neuroimmunol. 2007 Mar;184(1-2):127-35. Epub 2006 Dec 28. Immune control by endocannabinoids - new mechanisms of neuroprotection? Ullrich O, Merker K, Timm J, Tauber S. Institute of Immunology, Medical Faculty, Otto-von-Guericke-University Magdeburg, Leipziger Str. 44, 39120 Magdeburg, Germany. oliver.ullrich@medizine.uni-magdeburg.de

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system
Endocannabinoid synthesis & release.

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoids
Cannabinoid receptor type 1.

5. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121381780/abstract? CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Journal of Neurochemistry, Volume 104 Issue 4, Pages 1091 - 1100 Published Online: 18 Aug 2008

6. http://leavesofgrass.info/info/Non-Psychoactive-Cannabinoids.pdf
Non-psychotropic plant cannabinoids: new therapeutic opportunities from an ancient herb. Angelo A. Izzo, Francesca Borrelli, Raffaele Capasso, Vincenzo Di Marzo, and Raphael Mechoulam. Department of Experimental Pharmacology, University of Naples Federico II, Naples, Italy. Institute of Biomolecular Chemistry, National Research Council, Pozzuoli (NA), Italy. Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Natural Products, Hebrew University Medical Faculty, Jerusalem, Israel, Endocannabinoid Research Group, Italy

7. http://sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/59872/title/Not_just_a_high
Scientists test medicinal marijuana against MS, inflammation and cancer By Nathan Seppa June 19th, 2010; Vol.177 #13 (p. 16)

8. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1766198/
NIH Public Access: A house divided: ceramide, sphingosine, and sphingosine-1-phosphate in programmed cell death Tarek A. Taha, Thomas D. Mullen, and Lina M. Obeid Division of General Internal Medicine, Ralph H. Johnson Veterans Administration Hospital, Charleston, South Carolina 29401; and Department of Medicine, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina 29425 Corresponding author: Lina M. Obeid, M.D., Department of Medicine, Medical University of South Carolina, 114 Doughty St., P.O.Box 250779, Charleston, South Carolina 29425. E-mail: obeidl@musc.edu
http://cannabisnationradio.com/dennis-hill-cytotoxicity

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Cannabinoids are not alkaloids.
-SamS

I was actually attempting to do just that in my post above.
You will have to understand first there are many different strains
which all have varying degrees of available compounds .

These alkaloids themselves are each being tested for their individual contributions and effects on various diseases currently across the globe in actual studies.

The alkaloids are
THC
THCA
CBD
CBDA
CBN
CBT
CBC
for starters,these are the most widely studied and focused on .


They vary from each other but when readily available they are proving to compliment each other very well in treatment .


The THC A and CBD A are being studied to prove effectiveness in cures when dosed in massive amounts which are harmless and non psychoactive as available with juicing .

It's this massive dosage that is proving to be key .


but when altered they are converted to the commonly known THC and CBD which have had the most study done and have been noted as being extremely effective for treating and fully curing or reversing terminal diseases such as Leukemia, most types of cancers,and auto immune diseases.

The THC itself is very effective in this endeavor and deserves respect as I'd venture to say that Rick Simpson's oil that he was and is using today has never been a lab tested high concentrate of CBD.

This current focus on CBD is relatively new , Rick has been procuring and making his oil with Indica dominant strains since he has started and anybody testing hotrod indicas in a lab will see a very small amount of CBD .

But it's this very oil that he has been very successful in reversing cancer in thousands to date.
I've had some of my best Indicas test at only 2 to 2.5 % cbd so far but are all over 20% THC.

I know Rick surely wasn't aware nor had available any strains such as Cannatonic to cure the cancers .

My current goal is to mix an oil with 15 -18% CBD from a Cannatonic that I will acquire shortly with an equal amount of THC in one of my Chem or OG phenos I have for my MS and cancer patients .

I'm most interested and hopeful to prove that studies I've read claim that the pairing of equal amounts actually stifles the psychoactive effect of the THC , while allowing a very high amount of these alkaloids to be used in the body to eradicate cancerous cell growth.


for a better understanding on thca and cbda I feel Dr William Courtney is a leader in this field...

http://www.cannabisinternational.org/about.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-iU9QN0fEM

 

[backyardbogfan]

I'm sick of being high

I'm sick of being high

When you have a bad back you can have all the drugs you want.
After awhile you get sick of being doped up on opiates and muscle relaxers and want to get out of the house.
That is why I bought a juicer this year and I juiced my males and will be juicing females too.
Today I juiced some Blue Moon Rocks bottom broken branch and I and my wife feel a lot better than when we came home after a dog walk. My energy level picked up and my hips aren't killing me as much.
For me no amount of pain pills make pain go away so when I can take the edge off and still have energy I'm happy.
BTW, I made some pesto out of that big Sweet Cindy and we got high as hell, all fresh no heating.

 

[Tudo]

I've eaten the bhang bars and got constipated. Ditto on the gold caps. Does anyone have information on the potential for constipation ( or diarrhea ) from juicing the raw leaves?

Is it possible to gain real pain relief from juicing? If so could it be made strong enough to substitute for lower mg opioids?

 

[WillSmoke_One]

Thanks for sharing (plus getting post count up so I can PM)!

 

[GET MO]

I've eaten the bhang bars and got constipated. Ditto on the gold caps. Does anyone have information on the potential for constipation ( or diarrhea ) from juicing the raw leaves?

Is it possible to gain real pain relief from juicing? If so could it be made strong enough to substitute for lower mg opioids?

HahaHAHAhahaha!!!!! All u gotta do is use the search button!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=153993

 

[backyardbogfan]

I poo'd fine with addition roughage

I poo'd fine with addition roughage

I sometimes get consto'd when I eat edibles. I really hate that.
I didn't have any probs juicing so far, it is supposed to help IBS.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

No THCA is higher not THC. Oh, and THC does not break down to CBD.
-SamS

actually THC is in higher concentrations when "uncured".. THC causes the undesirable symptoms of ganja that are antagonistic to the other cannabinoids.. the later the harvest and the longer the cure the more time there is for it to break down into cannabidiol and all the others, that do already exist in the plant just not in the desirable concentrations.. THCs over use in the lexicon associated with cannabis is a bit of a misnomer..

juicing is basically taking the fresh plant material and blending it up..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The question is juicing better for health than smoking it? It is obvious that the question should be can as many patients find relief from their medical problems with juicing Cannabis as smoking or vaping Cannabis? Smoking is not healthy, but vaping cures almost all the problems associated with smoking Cannabis. Maybe juicing is better for some patients that can use the acid forms of the cannabinoids, but if you need the cannabinoids like THC, CBD, CBN, CBC, THCV, CBG you need to decarboxylize the plant materials to get the maximum effects. If you do not want THC then use high CBD varieties or a variety that is high in what helps you. You do not need to juice to avoid THC it is pretty easy to find low or no THC varieties, the bigger problem is finding the other Cannabinoids to try.
Personaly I don't like juiced Cannabis unless strained with a very fine cloth to remove the Cystolithic trichome hairs that upset my stomach and give me the burbs.
-SamS