Building New Panels - Sharing the Process
- Thread starter rrog
- Start date
i m thinking i discovered a drawback to LEDs in vert ~they would just about have to be active cooled {or under-driven}
hoping mine can be passive but not so sure about the crees and the nasa bars since they are max'd out ~maybe an additional diode will get me passive?
hoping mine can be passive but not so sure about the crees and the nasa bars since they are max'd out ~maybe an additional diode will get me passive?
the heat sink is more efficient at 'wicking' heat away from the chip if it is above the junction
w/ my fairly minimal heat sinks; absent that 'chimney' effect {heat rises} they may be inadequate w/o going active
i have thought the bars could be efficient vert since a channel of heat would have to be rising in the 'u' {th chimney effect would b th fan} but even here i think the bar would be more effective slanted than straight vert ~needs sorted out
w/ my fairly minimal heat sinks; absent that 'chimney' effect {heat rises} they may be inadequate w/o going active
i have thought the bars could be efficient vert since a channel of heat would have to be rising in the 'u' {th chimney effect would b th fan} but even here i think the bar would be more effective slanted than straight vert ~needs sorted out
Roger that Xmobo-
Rives- if you're around- i was thinking of using my drill press for the LED star mounting. I have the screws, drill bits and driver bits. Plastic washers also. Any last minute tips? Oil? depth of hole? You mentioned to attach in the valleys of the fins, the thinnest portion.
Thanks!
Rives- if you're around- i was thinking of using my drill press for the LED star mounting. I have the screws, drill bits and driver bits. Plastic washers also. Any last minute tips? Oil? depth of hole? You mentioned to attach in the valleys of the fins, the thinnest portion.
Thanks!
Rrog, I don't know what your experience is working with aluminum, but you want to use a very light touch and slower tool speeds than in ferrous metal, backing the bit out frequently to clear the chips out. I would use a good cutting oil, and as you mentioned, carefully lay out the holes to stay centered between the fins. If one of the flutes on the drill just kisses the web, the tiny little bastards are gone. I drilled clear through the base because the length screws that I got were longer than the base was thick. Your base is thicker, but if you stay away from the fins it would probably be easier to thru-drill the holes rather than trying to get the depth right on a blind hole.
Rives- I think I'd rather use a second washer rather than drilling all the way through the block. I don't think I could bare it... It's so beautiful.
I can slow the speed of the drill motor by changing pulley position. I can set the stop on the drill press to drill same depth every time. I hope I don't have to drill through to the other side.
I can slow the speed of the drill motor by changing pulley position. I can set the stop on the drill press to drill same depth every time. I hope I don't have to drill through to the other side.
you have a funny way of expressing yourself man..
were here to share info and experiences.. you need to let your guard down man.. everything we are saying is getting twisted to something else..
I don't care if you share pics or not, I share like 1-2% of what I do in pics.. I was wanting you to share info on your experiences with a XM-L lamp you mentioned seeing run at 3amps.. there is few here with a lamp like that and the more info the better for everyone..
as you said, out of respect to RROG, I'm done, if you like to share, please feel free in another topic
drilling? i found it was much easier to use a tiny bit {i used 1/16} for a pilot then drill up to my desired size
yeah do that
actually not so sure about tapping the aluminum ~i wouldnt want to tap a blind hole esp
yeah do that
actually not so sure about tapping the aluminum ~i wouldnt want to tap a blind hole esp
Habeeb, he mentioned that he isn't a native English speaker. He was starting to flare me up a bit at first - he communicates so well that it isn't readily apparent that this isn't his first language, but it does come off as abrasive at times.
Something to keep in mind with using the heat sink as an indicator of what is going on - the chips are going to be long since damaged by the time that you see the sink go into the danger zone, particularly if you have a massive sink like the one that Rrog is using. On most of the mcpcbs that I've seen, they have a small pad that is intended to be a better spot (but still not optimal) to check the chip junction temperature, but you would need a contact-style thermocouple to use it.
Xm, did you see my post in the other thread asking you about your driver?
Xm, did you see my post in the other thread asking you about your driver?
2cent13adz
New member
@ habeeb
First you say: were here to share info and experiences
True. I was asking you to compare a few things from the xml-pdf, specific questions and general opinions, amp vs temp.
So far, nothing.
Then you say: everything we are saying is getting twisted to something else
If so, I'm sure you can point me to some examples of just that. Feel free to use my one pm for this part.
@ all
Ppl get offended all the time, many times for no reason. Even more so in forums. Jokes, irony and such often gets lost in transmission. Is this gonna stop me/anyone from call bs when I/he see it? No way. Two quick examples from this thread:
rives (who seems to be a really nice guy) claimed one would need liquid cooling to go 3A. To me, that's plain wrong. I say so. Did he like to hear it? Is he still saying this? And, did this make any of us more or less 'nice guys'?
habeeb, in his first reply to me, say: "2cent, the thing your not getting.. is the higher you drive the chip the lower the output. look at any chart and see.../snip" One can choose to accept that as a true fact, or one can wonder: why is that so? He then post a chart, made by someone else. I check it out, call bs on the other guys testing methods (not the other guy, but his testing methods, and he even does it himself). Is this the "getting twisted"?
Would you rather still think you need liquid cooling, and love that chart?
If you don't like another guys style of posting/opinions, and due to that miss the facts/ideas/info that was there, it's your loss. Now, this is not the type of discussion I signed up for, so I'll leave it at that.
------------------------------------
Any comment on the current vs temp would be welcome. habeeb? Anyone? Can I assume everyone have the xml pdf?
-----------------------------------
The lamp I mentioned before, that includes some xml's, is no magic thing, holds no secrets. Was built to replace a single 250/400 hps. The xml part is a HLG-320H-54B (B-model is with dimmer) driving two strings of 16 xml's each. Dimming from ~5-325w (at the plug). Led's are glued with AS Thermal Adhesive to -/insert trumpets/- two giant heatsinks. At first start power was set to 80% (256w) no fans at all just to observe. They got warm pretty quick as expected. One pc-fan was placed on each sink at half speed, they cooled down. So it was left on 24/7 3-4 days, no problem.
Each sink (7''x32''2'' heavy bastards, plenty of room for future excesses) also hold a string of 14 red's, 50/50 red/far red. Everything on, full blast, takes a few more fans, if I remember things correctly two on each sink was well enough. They are just placed on top of the sink, can't be any easier to add/reduce number of fans. PC-style fan-controller is used.
All this was done in a 3'x4' cab, 4'' scrubber on slow speed, standard room temp, no plants. In cab temp rised just a few degrees. The cab didn't dry out as much as with the old hps.
Probably gonna be used to do small-scale side-by-sides in the future, having two identical heatsinks and one main driver. Or anything else that seems fun at the time...
If any of you find me post any bs, you must call me out. This is how we learn.
------------------------------------
@ rrog, you are in for a lot of work to drill/thread all those holes. Is it really worth it? I had all my tools put together to do that, in starting position, then decided to glue'm anyway. No regrets.
First you say: were here to share info and experiences
True. I was asking you to compare a few things from the xml-pdf, specific questions and general opinions, amp vs temp.
So far, nothing.
Then you say: everything we are saying is getting twisted to something else
If so, I'm sure you can point me to some examples of just that. Feel free to use my one pm for this part.
@ all
Ppl get offended all the time, many times for no reason. Even more so in forums. Jokes, irony and such often gets lost in transmission. Is this gonna stop me/anyone from call bs when I/he see it? No way. Two quick examples from this thread:
rives (who seems to be a really nice guy) claimed one would need liquid cooling to go 3A. To me, that's plain wrong. I say so. Did he like to hear it? Is he still saying this? And, did this make any of us more or less 'nice guys'?
habeeb, in his first reply to me, say: "2cent, the thing your not getting.. is the higher you drive the chip the lower the output. look at any chart and see.../snip" One can choose to accept that as a true fact, or one can wonder: why is that so? He then post a chart, made by someone else. I check it out, call bs on the other guys testing methods (not the other guy, but his testing methods, and he even does it himself). Is this the "getting twisted"?
Would you rather still think you need liquid cooling, and love that chart?
If you don't like another guys style of posting/opinions, and due to that miss the facts/ideas/info that was there, it's your loss. Now, this is not the type of discussion I signed up for, so I'll leave it at that.
------------------------------------
Any comment on the current vs temp would be welcome. habeeb? Anyone? Can I assume everyone have the xml pdf?
-----------------------------------
The lamp I mentioned before, that includes some xml's, is no magic thing, holds no secrets. Was built to replace a single 250/400 hps. The xml part is a HLG-320H-54B (B-model is with dimmer) driving two strings of 16 xml's each. Dimming from ~5-325w (at the plug). Led's are glued with AS Thermal Adhesive to -/insert trumpets/- two giant heatsinks. At first start power was set to 80% (256w) no fans at all just to observe. They got warm pretty quick as expected. One pc-fan was placed on each sink at half speed, they cooled down. So it was left on 24/7 3-4 days, no problem.
Each sink (7''x32''2'' heavy bastards, plenty of room for future excesses) also hold a string of 14 red's, 50/50 red/far red. Everything on, full blast, takes a few more fans, if I remember things correctly two on each sink was well enough. They are just placed on top of the sink, can't be any easier to add/reduce number of fans. PC-style fan-controller is used.
All this was done in a 3'x4' cab, 4'' scrubber on slow speed, standard room temp, no plants. In cab temp rised just a few degrees. The cab didn't dry out as much as with the old hps.
Probably gonna be used to do small-scale side-by-sides in the future, having two identical heatsinks and one main driver. Or anything else that seems fun at the time...
If any of you find me post any bs, you must call me out. This is how we learn.
------------------------------------
@ rrog, you are in for a lot of work to drill/thread all those holes. Is it really worth it? I had all my tools put together to do that, in starting position, then decided to glue'm anyway. No regrets.
I'm laying out the star locations on the sink. As a side note, this big sink has a 3/8" thick slab that the fins come off from. I'm using 3/8" screws, plus the washer, plus the star itself, means a hole depth that will never penetrate to the fin side. This also means I do not have to pay attention to where the fins are at all! This is getting easier!
I'm using my Delta drill press, so as soon as I locate all holes, it should be quick work. Interestingly, I can adjust the speed of the bit by adjusting the pulleys. They call for a very fast speed with aluminum and a small bit. Again, Delta recommends a very fast bit speed.
I'm using my Delta drill press, so as soon as I locate all holes, it should be quick work. Interestingly, I can adjust the speed of the bit by adjusting the pulleys. They call for a very fast speed with aluminum and a small bit. Again, Delta recommends a very fast bit speed.
You've apparently misread what I said - when I was talking about liquid cooling I was referring to the chips that I used, which are Osram Golden Dragon's. I've seen several people running XM-L's at 3 amps, but haven't seen anything about how well it worked out over time.
And for the record, I think that what you are talking about for a general lighting fixture or experimentation would be fine. For a plant light source that is going to be turned on potentially 24/7 and run unattended the bulk of the time, over a plant that can be stressed and potentially hermie by a change in the light mid-flower, I think it's a very poor idea.
Interesting. I've always had problems with aluminum galling when using high tool speeds. If you go this route, be sure to use a good cutting fluid.
2cent13adz
New member
rives, you are right. Different diodes. My mistake, didn't pay attention. So what you are saying is that your Osram Golden Dragon's need it to go max, inside the specs?
In a friendly way, you worry too much. Do you ever leave a hps unattended? You know how easy it is to auto-kill the lamp at fan-failure etc. That will never be a problem. Hermies and whatnot, I don't do the connection. Haven't had one since hippie-time.
The future is bright. Let's go there.
In a friendly way, you worry too much. Do you ever leave a hps unattended? You know how easy it is to auto-kill the lamp at fan-failure etc. That will never be a problem. Hermies and whatnot, I don't do the connection. Haven't had one since hippie-time.
The future is bright. Let's go there.
I think that all manufacturers don't necessarily utilize the same criteria to arrive at their specifications, so some are more conservative than others. When I was researching the GD+'s, there were damn few people pushing them above the nominal 1 watt (typically .8 watt), and the only one that I found with any success at the full "rated" power was using that method of cooling.
Worry too much? No, it's my background - if you spend 30 years designing, installing and maintaining electrical/electronic systems for an industry that downtime costs are measured in $1000's/minute, you make sure that your shit works and works well for a long, long time. As Habeeb pointed out in an earlier post, my version of "overkill" is making sure that I can walk away from something and know that it is going to continue functioning without a bunch of nursemaiding.
An HPS isn't going to be affected by a fan failure, though the plants certainly could be. Most industrial fixtures are totally sealed and gasketed to keep the dust out, and run hot as hell.
*edit* It's finally struck me - you are misinterpreting the term "overkill".
Worry too much? No, it's my background - if you spend 30 years designing, installing and maintaining electrical/electronic systems for an industry that downtime costs are measured in $1000's/minute, you make sure that your shit works and works well for a long, long time. As Habeeb pointed out in an earlier post, my version of "overkill" is making sure that I can walk away from something and know that it is going to continue functioning without a bunch of nursemaiding.
An HPS isn't going to be affected by a fan failure, though the plants certainly could be. Most industrial fixtures are totally sealed and gasketed to keep the dust out, and run hot as hell.
*edit* It's finally struck me - you are misinterpreting the term "overkill".
Last edited:
2cent13adz
New member
rives, maybe it's your background that makes you worry. Noone will ever lose $$/min in a 3'x4'. Personally, I'd never let anything out my door that makes me lose any sleep.
Now I'll take a brake from this thread. In the meantime, maybe someone read the xml pdf, think about things, give some response. If not, I'll live. Later!
Almost forgot, good luck with your build, rrog!
Now I'll take a brake from this thread. In the meantime, maybe someone read the xml pdf, think about things, give some response. If not, I'll live. Later!
Almost forgot, good luck with your build, rrog!
