Tomato seedlings wilted -- help please

[BrownThumb]

Well I hope coco is not certain death for toms because I just fired up some Japanese Trifele's, some mystery toms, various herbs and a couple different kinds of sweet peppers. I saw someone mention way back that they thought it was not due to coir (Koi-er), the original issue here and I wonder if it was damping off...I am not having any problems at all, but I water and then drain my hempy cups daily. Maybe that has something to do with it. No reservoirs staying full of liquid and run-off thoroughly removed after feeding.

There are at least a few good places to get seed stock, heirlooms, etc. Tomato bob is a good site. http://www.tomatobob.com/. JL Hudson Seedsman is a kick-ass outfit and goes way beyond vegetables...any serious gardener should get their catalog, IMO. This is where I got my GA3, BTW. http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Catalog.htm

 

[SeaMaiden]

I LOVE Japanese black trifeles! They're one of my favorites and I grow them every year. Now I can't find my seeds of them, so I might have to order some.

With coir I would be most concerned with sufficient Ca being available from the start, especially given my annual problems with BER.

 

[BrownThumb]

....
With coir I would be most concerned with sufficient Ca being available from the start, especially given my annual problems with BER.

BER? bit error rate? Probably not...LOL

I was thinking about this and wondering why there would be a CA issue w/ coir and not w/ Perlite. The GH flora series product labels mention using Calimagic for the first two weeks, but I am maybe 5 or 7 days in and everything looks cool...excellent in fact. I must be missing something... But just the first two weeks is what it says... I guess it's only important for seedlings and once your past that stage they can absorb it better or..? Yeah, I don't get it.

Those Trifele seeds came from a little shop in Nevada City that sells Essential oils and stuff like that. They had them on display for some odd reason and mom surprised me with a pack because she saw me eyeballing them. I gave one away last year, but have not tried one, so i guess i have something to look forward to this year since I am gifting some to my family members. It's good to know they're as good as they look.

 

[SeaMaiden]

No, sorry! Blossom end rot. Perlite has not required additional Ca as coir has, IME. I can't speak for what GH says to do, though, sorry.

They are a fantastic eating and canning tomato, being largish, very meaty and very heavy for their size. They are neither sweet nor tart, but come with a PUNCH of tomato flavor. You're gonna love 'em. They do naturally tend to be a bit ugly, and keep that watering even so you don't split the delicate skin.

 

[BrownThumb]

No, sorry! Blossom end rot. Perlite has not required additional Ca as coir has, IME. I can't speak for what GH says to do, though, sorry.

They are a fantastic eating and canning tomato, being largish, very meaty and very heavy for their size. They are neither sweet nor tart, but come with a PUNCH of tomato flavor. You're gonna love 'em. They do naturally tend to be a bit ugly, and keep that watering even so you don't split the delicate skin.

LOL...funny you say they're ugly, because I tend to grow Heirloom varieties and so mutants and ugly fruits are totally common to my experience. I think Brandywines are some of the funkiest looking Tom.'s I have grown, but also some of the best.

You obviously know your tom.'s, because steady watering is always the trick and I usually screw that up at some point in the season when temps get high and it's hard to gauge how moist the soil really is. I have been using half 55 gallon drums the past few years and it is certainly more challenging then just growing in the ground. Last year I had an epic good crop of Black Princes and some other miscellaneous tom.'s...

I am actually anxious to try some outdoor hempy just to see how good it can be, but figure the watering side of the equation will be tricky unless I use a huge container.

Anyway, thanks for the input, SM!

 

[SeaMaiden]

Look up the Italian seawater study on tomatoes. Last year, before the cover crops got going but the tomatoes were setting fruit, I was once again getting the BER as soon as the fruit set. Then I picked up some Sea-90, and before I read that study had decided to try it out on some of my crops, just to see what would happen.

The BER stopped dead in its tracks! Over the past years I've been driving myself crazy trying to get the watering down, the Ca levels, etc. Two applications of Sea-90 and we were done with BER for the season.

Cover crops will help tremendously with keeping moisture in the ground and preventing over and underwatering. Last year was the first time trying them, they're going in every year. I used clovers, mustards, fenugreek, amaranth and some other stuff that I can't remember. Much of the cover crops were spices from my cupboard.

Hempy, IMO, is pretty darn easy. I liked it. I used 30gal tubs that I drilled about 2"-3" up from the bottom. Offered a plenty big reservoir.

 

[BrownThumb]

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Cover crops will help tremendously with keeping moisture in the ground and preventing over and underwatering. Last year was the first time trying them, they're going in every year. I used clovers, mustards, fenugreek, amaranth and some other stuff that I can't remember. Much of the cover crops were spices from my cupboard.

Hempy, IMO, is pretty darn easy. I liked it. I used 30gal tubs that I drilled about 2"-3" up from the bottom. Offered a plenty big reservoir.

Agreed, Hempy is easy and that's part of why I am doing it that way, less mess is another. I also think growing in soil outdoors is simple.

A shot of the babies in coir w/ no apparent problems and no ca added.

Your idea of using ground cover as a sort of mulch is not new, but is very smart. I have in fact been planting clover in my soil units as they fix nitrogen from the air if the soil is deficient. Ever look into Permaculture? You sure sound like it...


OK, Blossom End Rot....duh, should have caught that. That's all about ca levels and watering intervals. I did really good last year considering I water by hand and that makes it harder to water properly, especially when it gets hot, but every year without fail I get at least some BER and I always crack a few due to my irregular watering.

 

[MrSterling]

Apologies if I'm telling you something you already know. Clover does fix N but many permies online seem to think it fixes it for the soil. The benefit of that nitrogen fixing plays a part only when you till the clover under.

 

[BrownThumb]

Apologies if I'm telling you something you already know. Clover does fix N but many permies online seem to think it fixes it for the soil. The benefit of that nitrogen fixing plays a part only when you till the clover under.

What's a permie? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I just have not heard that before. Thanks for the tip on tilling clover in the fields too, I like to learn. I assume the ground absorbs the organic matter of the clovers which contains the nitrogen. Is that correct? Well I guess it's a good thing I have not been relying on the clovers to supply my plants with N..LOL.

Ta!

 

[lost in a sea]

certain plants mostly legumes form a symbiotic relationship with a bacteria known as a rhizobia that uses an enzyme called nitrogenase to fix nitrogen into ammonia in the soil, which is converted into ammonium..

farmers often rotate their fields so that one season in every two or three nitrogen will be returned to the soil.. or grow non leguminous near to legumes to get a good crop without much ferts..

 

[SeaMaiden]

Very true, lost! I grow beans every year, but those are for me to eat. The cover crops are also to be considered green manure, because I don't harvest them for myself, I take them down and return that nutrition back to the soil. The whole goal is to build soil where there was none previously, just heavy red clay and rock.

We left the gate to that area open, though, and the deer came through and mowed down my cover crops, hardly left any poop for me! So I closed the gate. If you're gonna eat mah cover crops, ah want your poo!

The cover crops seemed to help retain moisture, and may have formed what are known in permaculture as 'guilds.' Thanks to jaykush for reminding me of that term, btw. Thanks to him for a lot of what I'm doing, in fact.

It will be interesting to see how things go using the weed-flamer. I hope to get more soil built up using that instead of the weed whacker.

Agreed, Hempy is easy and that's part of why I am doing it that way, less mess is another. I also think growing in soil outdoors is simple.

A shot of the babies in coir w/ no apparent problems and no ca added.

Your idea of using ground cover as a sort of mulch is not new, but is very smart. I have in fact been planting clover in my soil units as they fix nitrogen from the air if the soil is deficient. Ever look into Permaculture? You sure sound like it...

Indeed, and agroforestry techniques are now being melded with permaculture techniques.

OK, Blossom End Rot....duh, should have caught that. That's all about ca levels and watering intervals. I did really good last year considering I water by hand and that makes it harder to water properly, especially when it gets hot, but every year without fail I get at least some BER and I always crack a few due to my irregular watering.

I thought it was all about Ca, but that Sea-90 and the Italian seawater study caused me to reconsider those two as the only possible options. Sea-90 is not only fairly inexpensive, it's tasty, too!

I'm no longer going to grow Roma tomatoes because they are the worst for BER here. Also, in comparison to the San Marzano tomatoes I grew last year, yield is shit. Smaller fruit and less tasty, so why would I grow Roma now? But Japanese black trifeles? Another story entirely! I'll also be growing Isis Candy gold cherries this year, for snacking out in the field. Few actually make it up to the house.

 

[BrownThumb]

I should probably not be posting here since this was about tom.'s that were not doing well, but just a FYI, Black Prince tom.'s (which are actually Russian in origin, just like the "Japanese" Trifele's) are similar and quite delicious as well as prolific producers if you grow them well. I highly recommend...I collect seeds form them every time I grow them. Krims are good too, but I would take the Black Prince over the Krim. Perhaps I will like the "Japanese" better.

 

[clovethee]

Cover crops will help tremendously with keeping moisture in the ground and preventing over and underwatering. Last year was the first time trying them, they're going in every year. I used clovers, mustards, fenugreek, amaranth and some other stuff that I can't remember. Much of the cover crops were spices from my cupboard.

I do that too. clover is real nice, I use it around tom's and did it between corn rows too. last year i interplanted rows of arugula, and rat tail radish's. worked out great, and those rat tail radishes look really neat, tasty, and the flowers bring in a lot of pollinators. blosom end rot stinks, I find the sauce tom's seem more prone.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Yes, clove, definitely the sauce tomatoes are more prone (I never viewed it from that angle, but once you point it out I think you're right). I wish I liked the flavor of radishes and beets. My husband loves them, I can't stand 'em. I would plant them as good root crops to help break up the clay more often if I enjoyed eating them.

I've found that letting your carrots go to flower brings in TONS of pollinators. Plus, the umbels are very pretty.