Living organic soil from start through recycling

[ixnay007]

Looking for some advice for a friend.

I have a buddy that had a bunch of used Pro-Mix and I helped him amend some with a mix similar to super soil... (Before I knew Better)

Long story short he vegged along time, topped every branch like crazy maybe a foot off the top and then vegged longer.

Once into flower everything looked BEAUTIFUL. Big Bushes everywhere....

Problem being, these huge plants are in 3-5 Gallon containers and root bound.

Within a week they starting yellowing everywhere and and now are showing rust looking spots on the yellow leaves.

I brewed a compost tea and he applied it.... no help yet.

Any Ideas for something that could give them some assistance?

Maybe a TM-7 Foliar Spray?

I would suggest a top dress but these small containers are filled to the brim already and now he's having to water by hand every single night or they will run out....

Nothing beats root space, so many roots in a small area will mean the soil dries out really quickly, and salts will build up (from the water, etc) and negatively affect the microbes..

I'd say transplanting might be a little traumatic, but in the long run, much more beneficial.

 

[canniption]

*

 

[DARC MIND]

Kellogg is one of the oldest names in potting soils and horticulture on the West Coast. You can use their products with confidence - again read the label.

Originally based in Orange County - going back to the WWI era.

kellogs compost is sewage slugde!
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-mar...ly-sewage-sludge-rosario-dawson-kellogg-amend
just like most of the compost these outdoor cali guys use...
giving outdoor here the worse rep,taste & look

 

[BlueJayWay]

MHG - any disruption to the roots will stunt stretch and i find to severely affect yields - i'm clumsy transplanting large plants by myself and thats usually the case for me lol - if you are able to transplant with zero disruption to the rootball then by all means and the plant won't skip a beat.

What I do in these situations, if the type of container allows, is to prepare a larger container that can be filled part ways with soil and basically set the root bound container on top and fill in the sides with fresh soil. Cut the bottom part of the root bound pot off, or make larger holes for more roots to grow into the fresh medium. Good luck!

 

[MileHighGuy]

Thanks everyone! It seems that even with the best intentions of sharing the organic knowledge... the quest for MOAR buds can break the simple cycle.

They are root bound, they look like my plants do aftger sitting in a 1 gallon container for 3 weeks to long. No matter how good the soil, the soil just can't keep up.

After recommending a few things I found out hey went and bought some Bio-Bizz Bloom Booster and has been feeding for the last couple of days.

Oh well.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Weyenot]

So I read that grapefruit skins (ash) have a very high level of potassium (0/3.6/30.6)
Anybody use them in their gardening? If so, how?

Hey there Colorgro; how about you compost them, or maybe even turn them into biochar? Personally, i wouldnt want to use them if they werent organic but thats just me....

 

[Cann]

kellogs compost is sewage slugde!
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-mar...ly-sewage-sludge-rosario-dawson-kellogg-amend
just like most of the compost these outdoor cali guys use...
giving outdoor here the worse rep,taste & look

thanks for letting me know about this...tried to find out what exactly was in N Rich...but of course it is super vague. Can you be OMRI listed and sell sewage sludge? I wouldn't necessarily be surprised given the shitty nature of OMRI.

well good thing I haven't bought any yet...

cootz, what is your take on this?

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

MHG- Blue Jay Way nailed it. I've grown 1lb plants indoors and had to do exactly what he described. I did transplant before I flowered though. Old Roots Organic bags were my 'containers', I placed them inside round 18gal cheap-o rubbermaids that had a few gallons of soil placed in the bottom, took a razor blade and cut the bottom off the Roots bag. At this point the roots bag will slide up and down easily creating more space for a top dress. Filled around the side of the bag with more soil.

Canniption- Not trying to be an ass...but if you could use paragraphs I bet you would receive a better response. Hurts my head trying to read your post.

 

[MileHighGuy]

MHG- Blue Jay Way nailed it. I've grown 1lb plants indoors and had to do exactly what he described. I did transplant before I flowered though. Old Roots Organic bags were my 'containers', I placed them inside round 18gal cheap-o rubbermaids that had a few gallons of soil placed in the bottom, took a razor blade and cut the bottom off the Roots bag. At this point the roots bag will slide up and down easily creating more space for a top dress. Filled around the side of the bag with more soil.

Canniption- Not trying to be an ass...but if you could use paragraphs I bet you would receive a better response. Hurts my head trying to read your post.

Thanks. Not my Grow, or I wouldn't have waited so long to take action.... Live and learn. I'm only helping cause I gave him the idea of organics and don't want him to become another victim and go back to the bottles because of a silly mistake.

I'll talk to him tonight about adding soil... but man he has a lot of plants and probably not any room. I'll have to go take a peek.



@ Canniption - Rancho is right.... I didn't even attempt to read that paragraph. It just hurts to look at.

 

[DARC MIND]

cann
this has been a issue for some time

meet kelloggs sludge puppet

http://www.rodale.com/compost-sewage-sludge
& for anyone who cares
biosolids
sewage sludge
landscape suppy centers here stock piles of sludge....i know of soo many commercial growers here that buy this shit cheap, for ther huge operations & others who install edible gardens for schools/people...

 

[Cann]

lol my god....how can they call biosolids "compost" on the bag? false advertising.....

haha and WHY would you take your sludge from the inland empire for gods sake! talk about some poisoned sewers...everything from pesticides, herbicides, perchlorate and other industrial contaminants, etc. and then there is all the poison trash food that people are eating..frozen dinners, del taco, etc. gotta be some of the most contaminated sludge I could imagine....

real sleazy move by kellogg...surprised that cootz gave that product the thumbs up...maybe i'll go check the label and see if it lists "compost" lol...might get lucky and have one without the sludge

 

[Scrappy4]

I am not defending anyone but keep in mind composting reduces compounds to elements eventually and that process cleans up a lot of nasties.

Locally an old air force base is leaking old parts cleaner that was dumped on the ground after use into a lake. To fix this wells were drilled to intercept this contaminated plume and microbes were injected to eat this crap. As I understand it is working very well.

Having said that it's best to make your own compost if possible. Then you control inputs and can see the results, and receive the satisfaction of DIY......scrappy

 

[DARC MIND]

lol my god....how can they call biosolids "compost" on the bag? false advertising.....

its all in the links friend
The EPA's plan to bypass opposition to sewage sludge disposal
@ scrap
test have shown the sludge,industrial waste contaminant, shit compost still contain many "nasties"

Independent testing commissioned by the Food Rights Network found toxic contaminants in San Francisco's sewage sludge "compost". In the sewage sludge product that San Francisco's Public Utlity Commission was giving away to school and urban gardens as "organic compost" are contaminants with endocrine-disruptive properties including polybrominated diphenyl ether (PBDE), flame retardants, nonylphenol detergent breakdown products, and the antibacterial agent triclosan. The independent tests were conducted for the Food Rights Network by Dr. Robert C. Hale of the Virginia Institute of Marine Sciences.
Watch the two videos below--from outstanding investigative reporting by the local CBS affiliate--which document the startling story of how San Francisco is violating its own precautionary principle law by dumping hazardous sludge on city gardens (and elsewhere)

above copied and vidoes can be seen from toxic sludge

 

[YosemiteSam]

hello all,just a quick thanks to all who contribute to this most informative thread.i'm on page 270,and climbing.i read it in the morning like my newspaper.i'll get through the whole thread,but had to jump ahead for a question or 2.first a little history.iv'e been organic both indoor and out for 10 yrs or so.the ROLS i have is 7 years old this cycle,but i only use it indoor for 4-5 months a year,the remainder of the time it's at rest so to speak.it's made up from topsoil,compost(actualy leaf mold)homemade EWC,organic humus,course river sand,perlite,and napa 8822 for aeration as a base.i have a good organic store available that has just about everything i need,so this ROLS has been ammended though the years with about all i could get.bat guano,alfalfa,kelp,fish and cottonseed meals.sul-po-mag,soft rock and black rock phosphates,azomite,mycos,greensand and glacial rock dust.this was the first 3 yrs.that got tedious and i started using rainbow mix grow 5-5-2,which is feathermeal,bat guano,marinebird fossilized guano,steamed bone meal,sulfate of potash from langbenite,cottonseed meal and seakelp,with endos and ectos.0.5% humic acids from leonardite.started at 3/4 recommended mix(3 TBS per gallon)and about the same time i started adding char.i also add compost and EWC and some kelp every year by the way.i water with collected rainwater.biochar is known to retain nutrients,so i added lesser amounts in the suceeding years 1/2 to 1/4 recommended down to a 1/4 cup per 5 gallons the last 2 cycles.plus i had i hunch from obsevations that all the nutes weren't being used.the reason i'm boring you with this is instead of blindly adding nutrients this cycle i decided to get a soil test.where i live it's free to residents throught the cooperative extention servise(CES).paid for with a tax on fertilizers and done by the state university who has a exellent ag program.Mehilich 3 method. it gives a nutrient availabilty index in ppm/lb/acre,ph,soil ec(1:2 soil-water)soil ecec,soil texture and estimated base saturation(%).i'll post the complete results if anyone is interested,but it mostly comfirmed my hunch,that is,"above optimum"with the p and k,and also zn. ph 7.0,ecec 42.estimated base saturation(%),total 95.2,Ca-66.2,Mg-16.7,K-7.7,and Na-4.5.it recommended adding only N,so i added 1/4 c. of fish meal(10-2-2)and a1/4 c. of alfalfa meal(3-1-2)per 5 gallons of soil,plus the regular compost and EWC,i also added SPM for the first time for diversity and to bring the ph down a bit.i also"dilluted"40 gallons the original mix with 20 gallons with a 2yr. old mix,same base,but only had rainbow mix added with minerals. i water with only rainwater,no ACT's.i'm at almost 8 weeks into flower,with only slight yellowing on the older leaves.no issues,everything looks healthy.i was hoping to deplete the N a little more with this cycle though.NOW THE QUESTIONS FINALLY.do you try to go for total fade at finish?that is most shade leaves cannabilized?is mostly green at harvest a indication of too much N?should i apply ACT this far into flowering,or should i leave well enough alone??do any of you get soil tests,and how much weight do/would you give them?i plan on testing this soil again at harvest for comparison.i'm also going to test my EWC.thanks to all who read this long assed post.heres a few shots as of today for your consideration,these are mostly sativa hybrids.

It is all about the cation exchange capacity. I could not force myself to read this the way you wrote it but...

If your soil has a total cec of 10 it will hold x amount of cations. If tec is 20 it will hold 2x...60 6x, etc. As long as those cations are held by the cec sites and the anions are held by the humus/living things you will never need to flush. The plant will send sugars to the soil and the soil will give up what the plant needs...no mo.

If you overfill the cec sites then the soil will start to build up salts. At that point the plant cannot take up exactly what it needs...it kinda gets overwhelmed.

This is why low cec hydro grows have to flush...they overfed the plant cause they are not as smart as nature which has had millions of yrs to tweak things and get it right.

So as long as the EC in your soil is not over 1 or 1.5...no worries. If it is then you are in for some bad tasting stuff.

 

[2 Legal Co]

So uh., Would this 'sludge' get retitled as HC (human castings), or PC (people castings)? Instead of Septic sludge or Pond sludge.

And of course the fact that we have to consider what's in it, reflects How on what we put in our mouths?

Food for thought... or maybe that's not the way to put it?

 

[scuggy]

Gascanastan, ClackamasCootz and all of the ROLS pioneers,


I can't thank you all enough. You guys are literally changing the world. I just finished reading the whole thread and man, you guys are awesome for teaching your methods. Your opening people's eyes who've grown for decades, and are changing their ways. All while boosting local economies all across the world. Anyone try buying agsil 16h lately lol? Sphagnum is probably flying off of ace harwares shelves at record pace. In winter.

Remember when, if you had "dro" you thought you had the best weed in the world? My how times are changing...

A sincere thank you for taking the time to be exceptional people by teaching and sharing your knowledge/experience. You guys rock. \m/


P.S. How many people you think are trying to get the best mexicali brick weed they can just to get seeds after all this landrace and unmolested genetics talk???

 

[Gascanastan]

Gascanastan, ClackamasCootz and all of the ROLS pioneers,


Remember when, if you had "dro" you thought you had the best weed in the world?

A sincere thank you for taking the time to be exceptional people by teaching and sharing your knowledge/experience. You guys rock. \m/

Not here...I've never thought hydro was even at the most...'good'

Go cat go...stay whiten the horticultural world and not myth based gardening world and it will all unfold for you in time.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Hey Microbeman...have you ever added a little basalt to your bioreactor teas? I find meself wondering if the minerals and whatever energy force is in that stuff would not help multiply microbes.

Cootz...do you use aloe in your worm bins...food for bacteria/fungi/protozoa and they are all food for worms. Or how about enzyme teas when you add water...jack up the metabolism on all the living things in there.

 

[W89]

YS I add all the sprouts from my enzyme teas to the worm bin,I try to crush them before they go in but the ones that root I just snap...

 

[invocation]

@W89 I just ordered some worms myself and plan on doing the same. Any plant matter than wont be used as mulch will be fed to the worms.