Living organic soil from start through recycling

[MrSterling]

Yeah can we go over soft rock phosphate? From what I gleam from cc the production is less than environmentally friendly, which is enough for me to pass on it but I'd like to know how it interacts in an organic soil mix.

 

[Microbeman]

Yeah can we go over soft rock phosphate? From what I gleam from cc the production is less than environmentally friendly, which is enough for me to pass on it but I'd like to know how it interacts in an organic soil mix.

There are some different methods of producing soft rock phosphate. AFAIK (as far as I know) almost all SRP contains a certain amount of polonium 210, a radio-active substance, as does virtually all manufactured phosphorus fertilizers. I started a thread on this a year or so ago and Spurr followed up on some research. Some of this contributed to the 'phosphorus myth'. There is a thread in the Cannabis Botany forum and the thread I started is in the Indoor Grows - Hydro forum.

When I have more time I'll track down some of the literature I cited.

I use SRP much more sparingly than previously and it is a good idea to find out where your SRP comes from and ask for heavy metal test results. AFAIK there are sources of SRP which are strictly mined while others are a byproduct of the phosphorus fertilizer industry.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Microbeman

I believe that a product sold under the name Tennessee Brown SRP is mined vs processed. Easy to find in the Eastern USA and almost unheard of in the West. A friend in Maine has this available at local farm stores and it's no more (and no less) than the Cal-Phos SRP out of Florida - that's the mine that has a lot of criticism attached to it.

CC

 

[YosemiteSam]

The good part about it is that the Ca and P do not tie each other up. It is the only P fert where that won't happen. You can still measure levels of free P in soil yrs after application.

Now maybe there is enough fungal acitivity in truly living soils that the tri calcium phosphate bond can be broken...but it is a rather powerful bond.

I use to buy the P myth and ran low P levels. Thing is Ca and P are the two things that seriously drive brix levels in a plant. And it ain't hard to run those experiments and see a direct correlation. You don't need massive amounts of P but it needs to be in the same range as Mg or you are going to suffer a loss of solids in the plant...solids being the concentration of minerals

 

[MrSterling]

MM, CC, YS - TYVM!

 

[2 Legal Co]

Is it the SS version? I grew out the SS white russian, really stinky WW dominant phenos were the better ones tho

Yup SS version.

 

[Avenger]

The only processing required to get SRP is mechanical seperation of the clay from the rock. This is accomplished by washing the phospahte rock with water and seperating the small clay particles from the bigger phosphate rock particles. The phosphatic clay slurry is seperated fromt the rock in a cyclone chamber(conical tank) the small clay particles go out the top and the larger rock out the bottom. The phosphatic clay slurry is then pumped to holding ponds where the clay settles out. This is soft rock phosphate.

http://www1.fipr.state.fl.us/PhosphatePrimer/0/71942C3D8E09DCBB85256F8000757657

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

I've been interested in using 'spent' rice hulls from a local brewery. Is there anything that I need to do before adding them to a recycled mix? I seem to remember someone saying they soaked them in fish hydroslate, so they don't rob N from the plants. Is it best to run them through the worm bins first with a healthy dose of alfalfa or coffee grounds?

 

[Microbeman]

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/dc6288.html

Anybody able to get this please, please PM me.
http://wmr.sagepub.com/content/13/5/407.short

 

[Avenger]

phosphogypsum is not soft rock phosphate.

it comes as a by product later in the processing of the rock phosphate.

 

[Microbeman]

phosphogypsum is not soft rock phosphate.

it comes as a by product later in the processing of the rock phosphate.

Really????

 

[Microbeman]

Also don't forget all the P you really need can be had from [vermi]compost (well made/fed/finished)

 

[Avenger]

Really????

yes.

"After the phosphate is separated from the sand and clay(SRP) at the beneficiation plant it goes to the processing plant."

"When sulfuric acid is reacted with phosphate rock to produce phosphoric acid, a by-product calcium sulfate (gypsum) is also produced. This by-product gypsum is called phosphogypsum."

source: Phosphate Primer

The phosphatic clay is the soft rock phosphate we buy as fertilizer. It contains no sulfur, so it isn't gypsum.

I'll attach some chemical analysis of several of the soil amendments that contain uranium so you can compare them.
Azomite:

Basalt rock dust:

Glacial rock dust:

Greensand, Jersey:

Tennesee Soft Rock Phosphate:

 

[rasputin]

...and I ask what you all smokin' on?

Myself some Kali Mist x Burmese/Cherry Bomb...aka 'V.Shiva'...me likey!

Sounds like you're smoking good, Gas!

As for me, I've been riding out this blizzard for the last 24 hours now with PK & Blueberry along with some hash oil on the side. With all this fresh material, I might have to make some snow hash.

 

[Microbeman]

Avenger; Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I had not posted the links to prove anything but to allow people to derive their own info. The amounts of polonium 210, flouride and lead 210 can be high in various forms of phosphorus, including SRP. AFAIK, it can be a geographic consideration.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Also don't forget all the P you really need can be had from [vermi]compost (well made/fed/finished)

No question this would be the best way. What do you feed to increase P though? I am assuming animal (horse?) manure.

 

[Kaptain_Kronic]

With the addition of neem, rock dust and crab shell - hell yea

Your aeration items, are those things you already have? If so rock 'em - if not, consider pumice/rice hulls - I love starting a mix with 50/50 rice hulls and pumice as my aeration.

thanks buddy. yes the aeration items are already on hand from previous runs. its been a long road to this thread, and to true organics, but its worth it to me.

i work in a hydro store and half the other employees and most of the customers still think chem nutes and gravity are the shit, and im "working too hard for results" with organics... no one beleived me when i told them about the no till pots.... but thats fine. this isnt about money for me. ive always liked growing all kinds of plants, even did a few years of coral propagation when i was into reef keeping.

any way, thanks for the help guy. and thanks to everyone whos made this thread what it is. im starting my third read through, this time with a note book.

 

[vonforne]

No question this would be the best way. What do you feed to increase P though? I am assuming animal (horse?) manure.

Using rock powders or as I use normal Rock phosphate. I don´t use SRP. My rock phosphate comes from Soil Mender products. They are big into aerobic composting materials.

I also use a lot or organic fruits in my bins as the worms eat it up the fastest along with neem, alfalfa and nettles.

And I use composted cow manure for a base mixed with used soil that had guanos and such mixed in.

V

 

[DARC MIND]

...and I ask what you all smokin' on?

Myself some Kali Mist x Burmese/Cherry Bomb...aka 'V.Shiva'...me likey!

me 2

 

[Avenger]

Avenger; Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I had not posted the links to prove anything but to allow people to derive their own info. The amounts of polonium 210, flouride and lead 210 can be high in various forms of phosphorus, including SRP. AFAIK, it can be a geographic consideration.

Ah, yes. Providing a link to phosphogypsum is so very helpful to those wanting to derive their own info about phosphatic clay. (<---sarcastic jab, no offense meant)

here are a few links that may, or may not be of relevance.

http://www.oocities.org/cannabinoidscience/radio.html.tmp

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es60021a005

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html

http://www1.fipr.state.fl.us/fipr/fipr1.nsf/129fc2ac92d337ca85256c5b00481502/9ba6e549dd7be29385256b2f005b9133/$FILE/05-028-088Final.pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/documentStore/g/b/z/gbz68d00/Sgbz68d00.pdf