How do pk boosters and bloom enhancers differ?

[smurfin'herb]

What are the differences between the pk boosters that are made for early flower vs. the ones made for late flower? i.e. Advanced nutrients big bud and overdrive; cha ching, and beastie bloomz.

Also... What makes these pk boosters different from bloom enhancers/(bio)stimulators...?

 

[smurfin'herb]

nobody wants to take a shot?

 

[pezoholic]

ok PKs work in a way that tells the plant "hey its flower time, start making flowers and forming buds to reproduce for the next season" Also tells the plant "stop using power to grow, use all for production of flowers" therefore usually ending its reach for the "sun"

Bloom boosters are loaded with potassium and phosphorous usually in a a CRAZY high ratio to tell the plant "ok somethings up Im dying time to use EVERY SINGLE last ounce of energy in to the flower, its all we got left "

So yea that's pretty much it in a nutshell, some 13/14s claim different things but that is the general function of each product

 

[smurfin'herb]

so your saying that bloom boosters should only be used in late flower since it encourages them to finish?
Also... So if i add overdrive, i can add a bloom booster that puts in even more pk? wont that be too much?

Im failing to see the diff. between the final pk formulas, bloom boosters, and (bio) stimulators? are they all the same thing? How are they different is what im asking!

 

[Guest]

don't get caught up in the hype of all these products. a generic answer is:

-products for early flower are aimed at producing more budsites

-products for late flower are aimed for ripening

pez answered your question quite well i.m.o., and the only way to know if its too much is to know your strain. you had told me you were getting some decent yields, my .02 is to run the nutes you normally run. then start tweaking from there. this is your first run with this set-up, and you should use things you have some tried and true info about.

some products claim to do both, and that the timing of the application is what triggers the differences. phosphoload for example

tighten up mr 600

j/k ur my buddy

hope this helps

 

[smurfin'herb]

that helps a lil. thx! What makes these pk boosters different from bloom enhancers/(bio)stimulators tho...?

 

[Mason Jarpacker]

i beleive the difference is the varying levels of n,p & k in the different products for the most part,some use different ingredients.same as horst,i only burn or under feed with them and honestly not noticed any real benefit from using them,though i have only ever used fox farms solubles,the open sesame,beastie bloomz cha ching. on top of gh flora at 0-5-10.for example,the open seame is rated at 5-45-19,the beastie bloomz is 0-50-30 and the cha ching is different(can't remember just now and too stoned to get up and look).i've read alot about folks saying that it is a waste of time and money,but i still don't know for sure.good luck and if you find something that works wonders let us know,mason

 

[Guest]

i beleive the difference is the varying levels of n,p & k in the different products for the most part,some use different ingredients.

exactly! There is no secret hidden ingredient to make them grow better. Know what plants need, when they need it, and how much they need. Each plant/pheno is different, and it takes time to see what it is they prefer.

These pk boosters/bio stimulators are just different products with the same ingredients (usually mixed in different amounts) trying to convince you their product is superior in one way or another.

Products claim a pot of gold, but really just want your money. Some products do work very well, but only when used correctly. More is not always better, sometimes it is. I suggest reading up on nutrients in general, and how plants use them.

These are the basic elements essential for plant growth. N, P, K, Cal, Mag, and S (macro nutes) Fe, Mn, Cu, B, and Zn (micro or trace elements).

They also need carbon, oxygen and hydrogen; but these are supplied from air and water.

It seems you keep looking at all these products that claim to deliver the world to you on a silver plate with a pretty bow wrapped around it. Instead, keep it simple and work from there.

My .02 is that its easier to add nutes if you notice deficiency than to fix an over ferted plant. Plus without running the same setup/strain a few times, you will never know if what you are adding is beneficial in the long run or just a waste of money. It takes time to dial in, don't expect the whole shabang from get go. Again this is just my .02, even if it isn't worth a penny.

~edit, Finding a happy balance of a nute schedule is not concrete. There are so many products now a days that the different combination of products for a feeding schedule would be almost endless. Look at what you are giving them, and not just the brand or name of nutrient. Look what the ingredients are. Then look and see how your plants are growing, what they need or have too much of. Adding all these boosters ect. depend on the basic nute formula you have going on.

What nutes are you running now/have you run/ or are you planning to run?

This would be useful information in deciding if the additives would be helpful, but watching and paying attention to your plants is the best feedback you can get. Everyone has a different meathod and growroom, so individual results will vary. Don't rely too much on everyone's information about using different products. Grasp a basic understanding of how things work/what to look for and then you will have the information you need to decide whats best.

does that make sense? hope it helps

keep those 600 rockin'! you inspired me to give some 6's a whirl. can't knock it till u try it right? but damn if they aren't more expensive than 1k's

 

[B.C.]

A lot of great answers guys!

A lot of great answers guys!

so your saying that bloom boosters should only be used in late flower since it encourages them to finish?
Also... So if i add overdrive, i can add a bloom booster that puts in even more pk? wont that be too much?

Im failing to see the diff. between the final pk formulas, bloom boosters, and (bio) stimulators? are they all the same thing? How are they different is what im asking!

A lot of stimulators are jus seaweed, fulvic and/or humic acids, the seaweed has growth hormones aswell as micro nutes. The fulvic and humic acids allows a plant ta feed on larger ( and more diverse ) amounts of cations than it would have otherwise been able to. So it can eat more of what's available.... PK boosters are jus that, more P and K. What you need ta keep in mind is that when a plant is first flowering it will use a balance -all- of the nutrients. But as time goes on that balance shifts to them useing more P and K than anything else, -mostly- P, the K works ta help regulate the uptake and use of nutrients and some in building biomass itself. Even tho they use more
P an K at this time they still need a small amount of N ( usually at this point stored in the plants leaves ) and micro nutes ta help keep things balanced and working properly. Balance is very important throughout the plants whole life. When a plant is too short on one nutrient it can cause a chain reaction of deficiencies, because they all depend on each other to work right. With that said, a PK booster with crazy high numbers is doing nothin but forcing a plant to use up what it has stored and killing it by trying to keep up with those crazy amounts of P and K. They call it ripening tho. lol... I don't use PK boosters or stimulants, everything the plant needs is in the -balanced- flowering nutes I feed with already! That's why they are made in the ratio's that they are in. I jus feed alil heavier with em and watch ta see how the plant responds to it. Purdy simple huh! lol Like someone has already said, having a strain dialed in ta know how much they can take is a big help. That's my thought on it anyway. Take care...BC

 

[smurfin'herb]

exactly! There is no secret hidden ingredient to make them grow better. Know what plants need, when they need it, and how much they need. Each plant/pheno is different, and it takes time to see what it is they prefer.

These pk boosters/bio stimulators are just different products with the same ingredients (usually mixed in different amounts) trying to convince you their product is superior in one way or another.

Products claim a pot of gold, but really just want your money. Some products do work very well, but only when used correctly. More is not always better, sometimes it is. I suggest reading up on nutrients in general, and how plants use them.

These are the basic elements essential for plant growth. N, P, K, Cal, Mag, and S (macro nutes) Fe, Mn, Cu, B, and Zn (micro or trace elements).

They also need carbon, oxygen and hydrogen; but these are supplied from air and water.

It seems you keep looking at all these products that claim to deliver the world to you on a silver plate with a pretty bow wrapped around it. Instead, keep it simple and work from there.

My .02 is that its easier to add nutes if you notice deficiency than to fix an over ferted plant. Plus without running the same setup/strain a few times, you will never know if what you are adding is beneficial in the long run or just a waste of money. It takes time to dial in, don't expect the whole shabang from get go. Again this is just my .02, even if it isn't worth a penny.

~edit, Finding a happy balance of a nute schedule is not concrete. There are so many products now a days that the different combination of products for a feeding schedule would be almost endless. Look at what you are giving them, and not just the brand or name of nutrient. Look what the ingredients are. Then look and see how your plants are growing, what they need or have too much of. Adding all these boosters ect. depend on the basic nute formula you have going on.

What nutes are you running now/have you run/ or are you planning to run?

This would be useful information in deciding if the additives would be helpful, but watching and paying attention to your plants is the best feedback you can get. Everyone has a different meathod and growroom, so individual results will vary. Don't rely too much on everyone's information about using different products. Grasp a basic understanding of how things work/what to look for and then you will have the information you need to decide whats best.

does that make sense? hope it helps

keep those 600 rockin'! you inspired me to give some 6's a whirl. can't knock it till u try it right? but damn if they aren't more expensive than 1k's

hey buddy thx for the info! But the plants wont tell me if there is too much or too little fulvic/humic acid. the same goes for the carbs,(unless you have a brix meter), and beneficials, and sweeteners,enzymes etc... Theres no way the plant can tell you if there is too much or too little of this stuff, unless you have scientific equipment.
Also its just a fact that the more things you supply the plant with (in the right amounts, and at the right times), the more energy it has availiable to focus on flower production, pest prevention, disease prevent etc, because it doesnt have to manufacture that thing.. So that means if you dont have probs with pests or disease, it leaves the plant the most energy possible to focus on flower production, therefore leading to increased yield.
glad you decided to go the 600 route friend!

 

[Guest]

hey buddy thx for the info! But the plants wont tell me if there is too much or too little fulvic/humic acid. the same goes for the carbs,(unless you have a brix meter), and beneficials, and sweeteners,enzymes etc... Theres no way the plant can tell you if there is too much or too little of this stuff, unless you have scientific equipment.

You will not notice a toxicity of humic/fulvic acids. As BC was explaining, they work by helping make food sources more readily available. You will notice toxicity in the element that is being made more readily available through the work of the humic/fulvic acids. You see, the elements essential for plant growth do not come in such simple forms. Wish it were that easy....

For example, let us talk about Nitrogen. Nitrogen can be supplied through fertilizers in different forms. For now, we will stick with two of them. (1) Nitrate nitrogen, and (2) Ammoniacal nitrogen.

The first, Nitrate nitrogen is water soluable and very easily taken up by plants in its original form. It is available in both high and low temperatures.

The second, Ammoniacal nitrogen is also water soluable. The difference lies in the plants ability to up take nitrogen in this form. Some of it is directly taken up by the plant; however most needs to be converted to nitrate form by microorganisims.

These microorganisims work best in warmer temperatures than in cold. So the nitrogen in Ammoniacal nitrogen may not be as readily available to the plant, unless other microorganisms are helping convert it into more rapidly available food sources such as Nitrate nitrogen. This is where Humic/fulvic acids come in to play. They are the microorganisims aiding the plant in converting these compounds into more readily available sources. That is, if they are needed.

Everything is working together to create a stable balance (great choice of words BC).

Also its just a fact that the more things you supply the plant with (in the right amounts, and at the right times), the more energy it has availiable to focus on flower production, pest prevention, disease prevent etc, because it doesnt have to manufacture that thing.. So that means if you dont have probs with pests or disease, it leaves the plant the most energy possible to focus on flower production, therefore leading to increased yield.

You are exactly right by saying this. I tried to explain this to you when I previously stated, "Know what plants need, when they need it, and how much they need. Each plant/pheno is different, and it takes time to see what it is they prefer."

It is almost as if you are not reading what is being said, and then trying to make me sound un-infomed at the same time. My mistake if I am taking your words out of context.

I am not trying to tell you what to do, but rather explain how things work. It is up to you to decide what you choose to do. If ferts are not mixed in proper proportions (again this is strain/environment dependent) nutrient deficiencies or toxicities may occur. In turn this harms the plant either way. The difference is deficiencies can usually be corrected quite easily, and pinpointing the root cause of a deficency is much easier than pinpointing the cause of a toxicity. Toxicity can permanently damage an entire crop, and can be very difficult to pinpoint its origin.

Getting back to the balance (again, great word choice BC). Everything needs to be working together. There is no need to supply high amounts of nutrients/co2 if your plants aren't able to use them properly. Not to mention, there is a point at which too much of a specific nutrient is counter productive.

Again, it's all about understanding how things work. Then applying that logic to your op. Let us talk about co2 because it relates to the balance of things we are talking about. Its easy to use, but not everyone understands how it works. Not saying this is you, but hear me out. People are quick to jump in and supply higher amounts of co2, but why?

Nearly 50% of a plant’s dry weight is carbon, most of which comes from carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide enters the plant through stomata, or pores, on the leaves. In a process called photosynthesis, the plant combines carbon dioxide and water, using light energy as its power source, to produce simple sugars. Excess water and oxygen are released back into the atmosphere as byproducts of photosynthesis, and most of the sugars are stored in the roots, stems and fruit of the plant for later use.

Carbon dioxide supplementation can be useful in some applications. Only if all of the other environmental factors are at optimum levels, such as light intensity, nutrient levels, temperature and humidity, increased CO2 can provide the extra material necessary to help the plant to flourish. This is that balance (thanks again BC!) It is a time where more nutrients will be needed. As the plant will be using them at a more rapid rate. The increase in photosynthesis requires more food to be made available.

The point I am trying to make is to have an understanding about how these things work as a whole process, rather than try to just load up on all these "products" because more is better. They may work very well in your system, not saying they won't. Just saying use the things your plants are telling you they need. Its reading/listening to plants in your system that will give you the quality and yield you want.


That said, conceptual knowledge is not enough, you must have the conviction that comes from personal experience.

 

[smurfin'herb]

yatyat, im just sayin.... people keep sayin, "you use too much stuff, jus stick to the base nutes, and everything will work out fine". When in fact it would decrease my yields and or quality. I been using this schedule for almost a whole run now, and it has worked way better that when i only used connoseur, big bud, carboload, and overdrive.

 

[Guest]

smurf,

You are the only one to know when its too much. If you are not getting salt burn, then don't sweat it. People just want to err on the side of caution, because what works for one doesn't always work for another.

You can easily find out the amount of each element being added to your rez. Read the label on your nutes and see what it says. For example, Sugar Daddy from Techniflora- 10 ml @ 1 gallon will achieve 42.5 ppm Mg 46.3 ppm S

Write these down for everything you add, and then you can monitor the essential nutrients. This isn't the only thing to consider when feeding, as I said everything works together. Some other compounds make other nutrients more available, while other help fight pest/disease, ect. Not to mention the environment and atmosphere ppm's play a huge roll. Remember, its everything working together (balance) And then, its still dependent between strains/phenos!

When you notice trends with your nutrients you can adjust accordingly, and you will even notice changes when different environmental conditions are changed. Its everything working together. You can write down the nutrients being added and monitor them like that through your observation and logic about how plants use nutrients. Everything else (lighting, environment, strain preference) will have to be observation and logic only. This is why I try to explain how things work, and you adjust accordingly.

The guy at the hydro store can't tell you what to feed, neither can us at icmag. We can only tell you to start off simple and adjust from there. You seem to be doing quite well, we talked a bit in private and you get impressive yields. Not to mention the reason I first looked/commented on your grow thread was the fact your moms were so healthy! Keep up what you are doing, and you will be fine. Buy your products based on what you want to feed your plants. Not based on the line of nutes. You already have a base and accelerated feeding schedule under your belt, so you should have an idea what your ladies like and respond to. Just increase gradually, until you find a point at which you are comfortable with.

You feel me?

Hope this helps

 

[Moreno]

This was a great thread. I hope the rest of this forum is as inciteful as this conversation, even if Smurf didn't quite get the answer he was looking for. I'll be looking and learning.

 

[sweetestsin420]

2

 

[Kcar]

A plants favorite food is sunlight. Everything else just helps with that conversion.

 

[StonedBlue]

I use GH salts although as soon as my new rooms are done I'm switching to organic. On their site they have a calculator where you put in your growing cycle, watering schedule, method of growing ect and gives you a week by week feeding chart. In my experience it provides a good starting point and you just adjust as the plants tell you where to adjust. I've never had a problem with the schedule as long as I have the rest in control ie temp, light, co2, pests, humidity. I've got the very different strains going now that have been going great and all I've been doing is watering each a different amount to each strain. I'm two weeks from harvest. Yesterday I pulled a lower bud off a Mendocino Purple Kush and speed dried it. It tasted kinda bad as it was speed dried and not flushed and cured, but it got me high as **** for about 2.5 hours. Your mileage may vary.

 

[clown baby]

The difference is marketing

 

[RockinRobot]

Forget the fancy bloom booster products. Get some MKP (Mono Potassium phosphate) and add it. It is the main ingredient in every bloom booster on the market. I usually run it first 3-4 weeks of flower.

I run GH Flora series with Lucas formula and add about 1-2grams MKP/gal.