Dropping Science - An interesting coco vs. peat study

[SpicySativa]

I guess that ol' deforestation issue isn't a consideration on the coir deal, right? Not to mention the wasteland created with fungicides, pesticides and herbicides used to produce coconuts.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, just making another point.... I don't think coconut palms are grown for coir alone, it's more a biproduct of an industry that already exists. Much like how our taste for beef leaves us with plenty of leather... Both those industries (alone with most commercial/industrial scale agriculture) are high on my shitlist...

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I don't think coconut palms are grown for coir alone

I didn't say anything remotely close to that......

I know how coir is sourced and it comes from commercial coconut groves. Not a scene from Blue Hawaii with a breeze blowing and happy & nifty natives running around collecting them off the sand with Don Ho Ho singing in the background

Slave labor, defoliation of jungles using Monsanto's gifts to the Third World, etc.

 

[CulturedHeathen]

I don't disagree that the industry is a nasty one, however it is still a byproduct that is going to be produced whether or not it offends our sensibilities. Better we use it to help grow dank buds than to let it be wasted. Again, peat moss is essentially "mined" and therefore in some way is effecting the environment (probably negatively) that it is collected from. Neither are perfect but both can be very useful.

 

[SpicySativa]

I didn't say anything remotely close to that......

I know how coir is sourced and it comes from commercial coconut groves. Not a scene from Blue Hawaii with a breeze blowing and happy & nifty natives running around collecting them off the sand with Don Ho Ho singing in the background

Slave labor, defoliation of jungles using Monsanto's gifts to the Third World, etc.

We're on the same page, dude. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, just pointing that out for folks who may not have known.

It's seriously sad how little many people respect our planet. My day job (environmental engineer) is actually centered around cleaning up soil and groundwater after spills, leaks, and other humanoid fuckups. It's a sad situation, but I feel like I'm doing my part.

 

[gonzo`]

utah state.........................

 

[greenmatter]

I guess that ol' deforestation issue isn't a consideration on the coir deal, right? Not to mention the wasteland created with fungicides, pesticides and herbicides used to produce coconuts.

of course it is a consideration CC, i don't like most of the commercial agricultural practices i see these days, but it sure isn't limited to coconuts. from what i understand coir is a byproduct of coconuts like jello is a byproduct of slaughter houses ........ they figured out a way to get us to pay for their trash.

peat is not really renewable, so what are the options? composted bark fines are a bitch to get in my area and i would think that it helps deforest an acre or two every year

i'm not trying to start a spitting contest with ya, i just don't see a truly green alternative. what am i missing?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I'm not making the argument for either product but what does grow tiresome is the holier than thou sales pitch from the coir industry. An industry that fell flat on their ass for all the reasons noted in the OP's research paper that he linked to. But of course it was 'rigged' - laughable.

Can coir be an alternative to peat? Sometimes - but it sure isn't about Cal-Mag Mythology or about how using coir will save the planet from those mean ol' peat harvesters. It is a different product and adjustments need to be made but before that can happen a basic understanding of the differences would be helpful.

For starters, coir has a 30% lower CeC number than SPM - ever seen that discussed? How about the complete and total lack of most micro-nutrients? I've never seen that discussed - or even a discussion on the major Secondary Nutrient that is lacking, Sulfur.

Mostly what I've read and heard from Duh Dude at the grow store is that I need to spend a few hundred dollars buying bottled gunk from a factory in China. You know, get a 'nutrient system' and then whine for help about implementing the latest version of a 'nutrient schedule' - stoner science at it's best.

The silliness is only exceeded by 'veganics' - hard to imagine

 

[W89]

Coco was the first medium I ever tried and I love it, used it solid for 5 years, grows some lovely plants but I've grown out of the chem nute paradigm plus it was hard work hand watering each day sometimes 2 x a day.But I stlll incorporate it into my Organic soil mix I don't think I will ever stop using it

Plus I get it cheap I get 12 bales for £62.40 Inc del each bale is 65 litres. the last grow I used 6.5 liter pots each pot held about 5 liters.. each grow I re-used the coco hard work tending to 150+ pots hand watering each day

 

[SeaMaiden]

I'm not disagreeing with you here, just making another point.... I don't think coconut palms are grown for coir alone, it's more a biproduct of an industry that already exists. Much like how our taste for beef leaves us with plenty of leather... Both those industries (alone with most commercial/industrial scale agriculture) are high on my shitlist...

Pretty much. For me, given my own background dealing with people in tropical countries, there's also an issue of work and being part of the global economy. I think Canadians are doing ok. Sri Lankans, Mexicans, Central Americans and, jeez, just pick a tropical nation--not so much (economically).

On all fronts, there is a LOT to know.

We're on the same page, dude. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, just pointing that out for folks who may not have known.

It's seriously sad how little many people respect our planet. My day job (environmental engineer) is actually centered around cleaning up soil and groundwater after spills, leaks, and other humanoid fuckups. It's a sad situation, but I feel like I'm doing my part.

I find that (your day job) very interesting.

I forgot to note previously that coir is said to be an essential component of good soil blocking mixes, better than either coir or peat alone.

Honestly, IMO, NONE of these products is truly 'green'. We have to ship them, which means we're using an 'open loop', using fossil fuels, etc, in order to acquire them. Close your loop and you'll be a lot more green.

 

[c-ray]

all that coir should be composted on site and used to grow healthier palm trees

 

[W89]

^^^^LOL