COCO VS PH lock out round 1

[jorgecervantes1]

hello all this is my first post here!

I have been searching google for hours trying to find an answer an unfortunately i have yet to "find my answer"


Im running royal golds tupur in 15 gallon fabric pots, i have flushed with 15-30 gallons with 1.0 ec 5.5ph and my ec is close to the 1.0 i put in however ph is locked at 6.6-6.8...

I am using RO water and my water temp is between 20-25 degrees Celsius.

I will contact royal gold tomorrow to get an answer, however i was hoping we can solve this problem before then.

water cost a decent amount of money where i live also i only have an ro100 which means im maxed at 100 gallons a day so the idea of flushing each plant with substantial water is out of the question.

my clones that are 3-4 feet tall are not showing any deficiencies at all! however my original GH seeds that are 2-3.5 are not looking good with different deficiencies.

I am using botanicare calmag it recommends 10ml per gallon, 30 gallon is 300ml of calmag it seems like a lot?


i have saw a lot of people saying they do not check there run off nor do they care, i would prefer those people not to comment.
If you know how to fix this please help if you do not know the answer please refrain from posting frivolous responses as they are a waste of everyones time.

 

[analogue]

Do you need all of that cal-mag? Because it's going to raise your pH if you don't actually need it - the Royal gold T is ammended with calcium already isn't it?

Your pH is telling you that there is an excess of cations.

More Calcium is released from whatever source your coco is ammended with, every time you fertigate.

Consider adding in some carbon, via humic substances.

I think you have too much calcium going on.

 

[jorgecervantes1]

thats the thing, i am not using that much!! i use like 100-150ml tops per 30 gallons. it recommends using that much. i have not clue about royal gold t being amended i will contact them tomorrow to get the answer to that! what do you recommend to use per gallon? as i mentioned they recommend using 10ml per gallon.

 

[Highsenburg831]

COCO VS PH lock out round 1

I use about 2 ml/gallon and it gets me to 190ppm

 

[analogue]

IMO you may not need any extra Ca at all. It depends on what the pH of your medium is telling you. If you pH remains high - lay off the Ca.

Between what you are normally feeding plus what is already present as an ammendment in the coco - you should be good already.

It also has azomite - so be careful with additional micros.

Cal-mag is universally one of the more abused and mis-understood addtions to nute regimens. Typically the recipe will always include nitrates. The basic ratios used are incorrect. Calcium should be 3x magnesium at least. But I have yet to see that correctly done in any cal mag supplement. When you use it liberally you are adding substantial nitrogen that you may not be aware of, need, or want.

Cations, which are all your -ium elements (calcium, magnesium, potassium) should ideally be in sync meaning that their ratios depend on each other to work properly/effectively. Jacking up you Calcium and magnesium you'll be excluding potassium as a result. Not good.

 

[jorgecervantes1]

i spoke to royal gold they said give about 5-8ml of cal per gallon. he explained there was actually a bad batch that went out and that i should continue with my normal (nut, nut, flush) routine and the ph should come down.

he said nothing about amendments to there coco and explained all the employees there use calmag. he said call back in a week to give update.

he also said most people do not feed often enough with the tupur...

thanks for the input guys/gals!!

 

[touringfunkband]

You might want to consider measuring your ph by making a slurry rather then testing the runoff. Google Canna coco and slurry for details.

 

[jorgecervantes1]

i googled slurry i dont see how that can help me? im not really into reinventing the wheel. I have gh seeds and i follow arjian and francos advise, and most people do simple run off check to see how the salt build up is.

as i mentioned royal gold sent out a bad batch and just my luck to have bought that.

what about canna coco?

 

[jayjayfrank]

1. dont pay attention to greenhouse

2. dont pay attention to run off

3. coco is K sensitive and locks out mg so you chase your tail.


slurry tells you the ph of the coco in your pot.

i water with tap water at 1.1EC at 6ph and runoff is 0.9EC at 7ph

-50ppm and +1.0ph for RUN OFF is fine - why would this not be ok?

why are you running coco at 5.5ph and not 6.0ph? you have 'deficiency' but why is the run off at 6.6 the cause? what makes a runoff of 6.6ph cause problems? why do you check your run off? what does your tap water test at?

run genhydro 3 part at 1.2EC-1.5EC with 1ml/gal drip clean and you might be able to pull no run off.

the infirmary forum has a questionnaire concerning plant health, op is missing lots of info for helping sick plants.

 

[jorgecervantes1]

im in veg mode still. thats why im running a lower ph. i run ro water.

"3. coco is K sensitive and locks out mg so you chase your tail." so not to much cal mag? what u recommend with cal mag? i just recently started to add cal mag.

so your saying watering at 5.5 and 6.5 run off is ok? doesn't that mean i have higher ph in the medium like 7.5???

how should i make the slurry?

 

[jayjayfrank]

hm, no, none of that

water at 6.0ph. feed at 6.0ph. fertigade de nutricon el 6.0 ph. nutrient solution should be kept at a ph of 6.0.

i am asking you why you are watering at 5.5ph? i have not read of anybody else watering coco at 5.5ph. rockwool sure, hydroton yeah, dwc of course.

coco is k sensitve. do you have a lot of k? if you have a lot of k you will have more problems in coco. does your cal-mag have k? are you running more than 150ppm of K?

a coco slurry will tell you the ph of your medium. put 5 grams of medium in 500ml of ro water, stir, let sit, test ph.

if i remember correctly coco has a natural ph of 7.0, all run off will be near 7.0ph. if you water a 8.5 ph your run off may be 7.3. you are currently watering at 5.5 with run off 6.6.

(note: last two points i am going off memory, i feel wrong slightly about these)


what is the EC and ph of your tap water?

the ec and ph of my tap water is 0.2EC at 8.5ph. i do not use RO water so i do not need cal-mag(*rule of thumb, ymmv)

is the ec of your tap water 0.3EC? try using 0.9EC of nutrient solution to bring your total mix to 1.2EC and adjust the ph to 6.0ph.

so i mean its all questions. why are you running a low ph in veg? why are you running ro water? these are not frivolous questions. your understanding of what a plant needs for it to be healthy is useless if we are not on the same page.

so when i say something like - the low ph is making micronutrients unavailable because of cocos high cation ratio and 'natural k hold/release'(hint: why new stuff is doing good but old stuff is doing bad)

you don't gloss over it with a different question or statement like 'i run low ph in veg with ro water'

seedbank help desk, i dunno... greenhouse, arjan and franco run coco at 5.5ph? are you using the new greenhouse line of nutes?

or yes - maybe it is a bad batch of coco.

 

[jayjayfrank]

double post

 

[jorgecervantes1]

my city water is not the best although it is low in ec/ppm there are traces of rust/iron in it. so that is out of the question. plus im not a fan of floride

I use 5.5 because that is what gh recommends during veg cycle, i have done it in the past at 5.5 with out problems. so i did not attempt to change it.

after reading a bit on potassium that seems accurate that i am having potassium deficiencies. from my understanding cal mag sticks to coco and makes it hard for the roots to absorb it so therefor it needs to be added.

i use botanicare calmag and there is no K in it. my K is about 10%.

im not a new grower just new to this coco. i have a grow room that is dialed in to the t that can handle more plants then most people house. i would put up pics but like most of the people here i am paranoid.

royal gold did confirm it was a bad batch. with high salt! that is what i am trying to correct... i took some brand new tupar ran 1.0 ec and it came out at 2.0. i will try to slurry it tomorrow to see my outcome.

my bigger clones look perfect however my smaller seedlings (3.5 feet) are looking deficient.

you recommend using 6.0 ph? too much k can lead to k deficiency? i read in my growers bible that k is locked out in high salinity. so maybe i need to flush more?

you are saying 1.0ec with 6 ph?

i hope that answers ur questions