Is this a PH issue or a deficiency ?

[ZinksInk]

Hi every one, I'm running a few plants in a gravity fed ebb and flow system. After a couple of weeks of looking nice the plants are starting to be a little upset.

Please Help!

I have attached photos and am wondering if this is a PH issue or a deficiency.

I am using house and garden nutrients and using the recommend week 4 vegie feed from house and garden schedule... Modifications I have made are, I have substituted ameno blast with xnute's Amino Treatment and replaced house and gardens MultiZen with hydrozyme. I am using the complete product line aside from these changes (NOT THE NITROGEN BLAST though) So far i have yet to add any calmag to the rez.

Temps at 75-78 during day

 

[Sat X RB]

greetings ... firstly you don't say what the plants are growing in.

if it's soil and you bought it ... your soil is probably "amended". that is: fertiliser has been added to the raw material by the manufacturer.

when you add extra fertiliser to an amended mix all sorts of wierd things can happen.

second is yr concern about "cal/mag". to understand the relationship between Ca and Mg it is helpful to google "Mulders Chart". you will see that too much Ca will inhibit uptake of Mg ... and too much Mg will inhibit the uptake of Ca! So you might see that there can NEVER be a shortage of both (therefore the Cal/Mag thing is bullshit).

to decide which shortage you have buy some Epsom Salts (MgSo4) at the supermarket and mix one quarter of a teaspoon per litre of water ... then spray the mix on the leaves.

IF there is an Mg shortage yr plants will start to look better within 24 hrs. if no difference then you've got a big fuckup in terms of nutrients being out of balance because of amended soil.

now, reading about yr application of nutrients ... I get puzzled. I don't know the products you are using ... but I wouldn't mix and match the way it seems you are ...

so try foliar spray with epsom salts and see what happens ... but I think wierd things are happening with yr nutes which might see you needing to replant in 'cooler' soil (if that's what yr growing in).

cheers!

 

[ZinksInk]

Medium is hydroton.

CaMG+ from General is the product i had in mind but im not just going add it for no reason and see what happens. You also failed to identify it as a deficiency and just told me to hit it with a product and see what happens. Dangerous advise.


Thanks for the response though... I'm not sure how you haven't heard of house and garden nutrients. They are a pretty major supplier in the USA and Europe.

 

[GrowKäry]

You also failed to identify it as a deficiency and just told me to hit it with a product and see what happens. Dangerous advise.
.

I dont think one foliar spay does any harm to your plants.

It shoved me what was my problem, and my plants looked just like yours.
I used canna mono mg (MgO 7%) 1ml/l.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Medium is hydroton.

CaMG+ from General is the product i had in mind but im not just going add it for no reason and see what happens. You also failed to identify it as a deficiency and just told me to hit it with a product and see what happens. Dangerous advise.


Thanks for the response though... I'm not sure how you haven't heard of house and garden nutrients. They are a pretty major supplier in the USA and Europe.

You're here asking for advice, without giving the full picture. Hitting with a foliar of Epsom salt is not dangerous.

How can we say pH if you're not reporting it to us? You tell us brand and part of the schedule, leaving it up to us to go figure out what rates you're using the product at...?

Plants need Ca laid down in tissues from the start. If you wait until you see a problem, you've waited too late. Mg is highly mobile and can be given at any time, including via foliar (same with Ca, btw, it can be given via foliar application). I always suggest separating Ca from Mg.

I see a few issues with your plants, from the yellowing, to crepey texture of the leaves, to reddened petioles.... in some shots they look almost like they're stippled, as though infested with spider mites.

 

[ZinksInk]

Thanks SeaMaiden,
PH I have been trying to keep around 5.7-6.0 for veg in the hydro system.
Never thought to gauge the Petiole. What would this indicate... A phosphorus deficiency? I don't think Its from a cold snap..

I also would mention that the leaves that look the worst are brittle and dry.

I will check throughly for spider-mites as I know what to look for and can identify damage. I would be surprised If i found an infection as the plants were treated with avid at the start and i've done some basic preventive keeping room clean and fogged the room and plants with with AzaMax.

Sat X RB>
Sorry for being cross was having a bad day. I appreciate the feedback. I dumped my rez yesterday and refilled it. The plants in the photo are soil less.. I know what you mean as far as buying amended dirt. It kinda pisses me off. Most hydro-shop love to sell this stuff and its cheeper than buying unamended coco most of the time. I don't know what the point of buying a complete nutrient line is when these manufacturers pre-charge their fancy dirt brands with some unknown amount of stuff.

I will post temperature and Humidity range for the last week once i get down to my shop later today.

 

[ZinksInk]

My feed chart.

My feed chart.

Last fed week 4 @ 90% strength.

 

[ZinksInk]

Temp range for the last week was 68-78
Humidity range is 42.8-60.3%RH

 

[ZinksInk]

I did find some Mites... Time to be extra vigilant. White gloving in progress....

 

[dansbuds]

Whats your water temps ??? this time of year the water sources are much colder & with hydro you need them to be at a certain temp . cold water feeding will cause all kinds of problems .

 

[ZinksInk]

Water is between 68-71(71 this morning as i left a recirc pump on by mistake)
Rez is located in the room. Currently I'm using the nutrient chiller i regularly run with the system for my ez-cloner for the week.

 

[Sat X RB]

Sat X RB>
Sorry for being cross was having a bad day. I appreciate the feedback. I dumped my rez yesterday and refilled it. The plants in the photo are soil less.. I know what you mean as far as buying amended dirt. It kinda pisses me off. Most hydro-shop love to sell this stuff and its cheeper than buying unamended coco most of the time. I don't know what the point of buying a complete nutrient line is when these manufacturers pre-charge their fancy dirt brands with some unknown amount of stuff.

I will post temperature and Humidity range for the last week once i get down to my shop later today.

well, no worries Cobber!

I 've never heard of/seen spider mites in this country so wouldn't know one if it bit me.

and have never seen/heard of yr nutes either.

but I wouldn't have suggested foliar Mg if I hadn't tried it myself and seen it work immediately ... and safely.
the foliar Mg fix is so simple and harmless it's a quick way of problem solving ... if it doesn't fix the problem it won't screw anything up and is a quick way to eliminate one possible cause ...

cheers! and I hope you fix yr spider mites ...

 

[SeaMaiden]

Thanks SeaMaiden,
PH I have been trying to keep around 5.7-6.0 for veg in the hydro system.
Never thought to gauge the Petiole. What would this indicate... A phosphorus deficiency? I don't think Its from a cold snap..

Could be P-, could even be N-, which is why I like taking in the whole plant as far as getting an idea of what may be at work. You're right, cold won't cause purple/reddened petioles.

I think, but don't hold me to it because I've never used hydroton, but I think you want that pH shifted a bit lower, down into the 5.2-5.5 range.

I also would mention that the leaves that look the worst are brittle and dry.

I don't recall you reporting the RH in the growing area, and while these plants don't appear to be stressed through VPD parameters, it's worth noting and keeping track of. VPD=vapor pressure deficit, and it's the plant's circulation system, its heart if you will. The mention of the dry leaves brings me to mention that.

I will check throughly for spider-mites as I know what to look for and can identify damage. I would be surprised If i found an infection as the plants were treated with avid at the start and i've done some basic preventive keeping room clean and fogged the room and plants with with AzaMax.

Sat X RB>
Sorry for being cross was having a bad day. I appreciate the feedback. I dumped my rez yesterday and refilled it. The plants in the photo are soil less.. I know what you mean as far as buying amended dirt. It kinda pisses me off. Most hydro-shop love to sell this stuff and its cheeper than buying unamended coco most of the time. I don't know what the point of buying a complete nutrient line is when these manufacturers pre-charge their fancy dirt brands with some unknown amount of stuff.

I will post temperature and Humidity range for the last week once i get down to my shop later today.

Cool. Since we're not familiar with the H&G line you're using, will you post up the nutrient profile, too? I'd like to see what Ca and Mg it has, and at what ratios.

 

[roasthawg]

Did you figure this one out? Have the exact same problem running hg in coco... think it might have been caused by too low a ph leading to a molybdenum deficiency. Interested to hear if/how you fixed this?

 

[ZinksInk]

I had PH swings for a couple of days and i think the spider mites were still at bay. Noticing some damage but its too late to spray now. Harvesting a few bad spots early...

Ill do a diary of my next Hydro grow... Plants in CO-CO are fine...
I used Aqua Flakes for the Co-Co but did some amending with calmg+ from General around week 2-3 flowering. Ive since switched over to H+G coco nutes which has made my seedlings happy..

PH for my coco has been around 6.0-6.2 for flower.

 

[ZinksInk]

5.8-6.0 for veg. and I started my clones in Rockwool 1.5" cubes with a PH of 5.5

 

[ZinksInk]

The more data i track the less problems i seem to have, let me know if you want me to send over my Excel spreadsheet for House and Garden, lets you scale strength and will update for desired gallons. I can update it for the complete product line, Currently using Hygrozyme instead of MultiZen and XNutes Amino Blast instead of House and Gardens due to cost issues.