A Demonic Deluge

[delta9nxs]

So...... Napa "Floor Dry"/Diatomite #8822 fully screened and washed ftw ?.......or......

Turface and rice hulls......Now we`re getting somewhere......

Later......

i've been using unscreened but heavily washed turface with rice hulls at 3/1 turface/ricehulls successfully up to now but with the saturation pulsing and the larger medium volume i'm pretty sure i'm going to screen mine and omit the rice hulls next time.

now i see ichabod has said the 8822 needs screening too.

you want a non-compactable medium with at least 30% air porosity that doesn't float.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I top dressed with 8822 because of fungus gnats without screening/flushing, plants looked like shit after. Starting to bounce back so yeah what Ichabod said. I don't recall having read that prior in any threads or I would have, totally fucked myself over.

Thanks for the answer D9.... I'm thinking 2 gallon lowers with 2 gallon uppers supported by ichabod screens. You think that's enough media for 8 ounce plants? I know estimating is like opinionating and opinions are like assholes but I feel you're qualified to give me any opinions you have of my idea. In fact I would be honored if you told me what you think.

Keep up the good work... and thanks.

 

[delta9nxs]

It took 80 gallons to flush (6) 3 gallon bags. the plants came back on those six after that.

that's a little scary, i've never had anything like that happen with turface and i've been using it over ten years.

 

[hotboxes]

I understand, I think. I understand I guess the mechanical side of it but still tryn to understand how it all works together.

This is why you pulse every so often to draw fresh air in and displace old gasses lurking in the medium correct?

The bottom chamber is just a holding chamber for your constant supply of food threw the wick and to catch the excess of feed after your medium has reached its PWT?

So is the air gap there just so roots don't turn into water roots, more or less just to prune them so they don't do this on their own?

 

[delta9nxs]

I believe this was discussed fairly early on in the original Passive Plant Killer thread.

BTW The rep from JR Peters said the only formula designed for RO now is the orchid food.

That's interesting on the Sour 13.I'd be surprised if it had much CBD but if it works..it works. Lord knows there are countless terpenes and other substances that affect effect. I asked Chimera about the Sweet Tooth and he said it tested out at negligible levels of CBD.

i'm just guessing on the cbd content based on pain relief from smoking. out of the 5 strains the sour 13 seemed to have the best pain killing effect with the bubba og a close second followed by the dope, the chem 13, and the good dog.

but since i am basically boiling the plant in oil i'm sure that we are getting a little of everything the plants contain.

i strongly encourage anyone having any muscular skeletal pain issues to try this. i'm popping them like candy all day long now. no really it's about 2 every 4 hours during waking hours.

 

[delta9nxs]

I top dressed with 8822 because of fungus gnats without screening/flushing, plants looked like shit after. Starting to bounce back so yeah what Ichabod said. I don't recall having read that prior in any threads or I would have, totally fucked myself over.

Thanks for the answer D9.... I'm thinking 2 gallon lowers with 2 gallon uppers supported by ichabod screens. You think that's enough media for 8 ounce plants? I know estimating is like opinionating and opinions are like assholes but I feel you're qualified to give me any opinions you have of my idea. In fact I would be honored if you told me what you think.

Keep up the good work... and thanks.

i think you can grow an 8 ounce plant in a 2 gal container with the ppk.

i'm wondering whether that is something on the 8822 from the manufacturing process because the msds on it says it is basically inert. while turface does contain 6% silica it does not give much off. the rice hulls are almost 20% silica. but i'm running a real stable reservoir ph wise.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

i think you can grow an 8 ounce plant in a 2 gal container with the ppk.

i'm wondering whether that is something on the 8822 from the manufacturing process because the msds on it says it is basically inert. while turface does contain 6% silica it does not give much off. the rice hulls are almost 20% silica. but i'm running a real stable reservoir ph wise.

I don't know if it was PH or the choking effect of the dust. I will go throw some in RO water and check the PH and post here in about ten minutes.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Must spread reputation...

Thanks D9.

I hope when people search "NAPA 8822 Floor dry top dressing fungus gnats" or an combination of this they find this info. Screen and flush... at least flush. FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH.

I never saw plants this ill before. Had me thinking my Gnats were Aphids because of the extreme deficiencies caused by lockouts. Just came up with my diagnosis because they are clearing up after flushing when Ichy confirmed my suspicion with his post above.

FLUSH NAPA 8822.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

OK I took about a quart of NAPA 8822 and put in some RO water. The PH of the RO water was between 6.9 and 7.0 when I added it. After mixing the two together by dumping it back and forth into two separate quart containers the PH came to 6.5. So there is some change in the PH.

I also think that the dust is a issue as well. It has been my experience in the past that top dressing with about a inch had no noticeable affect on the plants. But I run my PH in my nutes at 5.8 so there is some room for the PH to go down as this was over about 5 gallons of coco. I top dress when the plants need more N and a lower PH is better for N than a higher PH is. This may be why the affect was not noticed. When I messed up my plants I had mixed the 8822 at about 2/3 to 1/3 coco and mixed it through the entire pot.

So I think the the 8822 can be used but must be rinsed to clean the fines and balance the PH out some.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I should also state that when I put the NAPA 8822 on top I completely saturated it which may have had the same effect as if I had flushed it.

 

[delta9nxs]

I understand, I think. I understand I guess the mechanical side of it but still tryn to understand how it all works together.

This is why you pulse every so often to draw fresh air in and displace old gasses lurking in the medium correct?

The bottom chamber is just a holding chamber for your constant supply of food threw the wick and to catch the excess of feed after your medium has reached its PWT?

So is the air gap there just so roots don't turn into water roots, more or less just to prune them so they don't do this on their own?

yes, the pulse is like a breath, out with the bad old and in with the good new as well as refreshing and correcting nutrients and water in the root zone.

as plants are wet and dried by either nature or man there is a band of ideal conditions for growth in the root zone. you can consider this to be an interface where gases, water, nutrients, and roots meet.

we are attempting to maintain the plant in that ideal range as much time as possible during it's life.

the perched water table will exist at the same height in any given medium regardless of the shape of the container.

so a 10" diameter tube (bucket) full of medium holds water at the same depth as a 1.5" tube (tailpiece).

but since the tailpiece is smaller in diameter it holds far less water.

water that is trying to drown the plants air roots and even if it is depleted at a rate that doesn't quite kill roots it is certainly down regulating the plant's metabolism.

with the float controlled water table maintained at a constant level the air roots will not invade the solid water body. they will stop there.

the "water" type roots will continue into the res where they will only grow to a point that matches the water uptake needs of the plant.

all of this correlates with the plants root growth habits outdoors in the open soil column where most nutrients are taken up by roots in the top 18" of soil and most o2 in the top 5". the "water" type roots grow to a water supply and stop there.

growing in containers we have cooked up a bunch of strategies to cope with these growth characteristics such as the "dry the pot down" between waterings strategy.

this is simply a ploy to avoid root rot but lets the plant get dangerously close to a water stress event every time you do it.

root rot occurs because of roots standing in o2 depleted water. air roots not water roots.

one way to avoid it is to remove the excess water immediately after each watering event.

 

[delta9nxs]

thanks for the info on the 8822 people.

ichabod, i think the dust is the culprit. when i prep the turface i use an angled slab so it will drain fast and a shovel to turn it over a few times to get the fines out of the pores.

when you think about it the dust will have a tremendous surface area to give shit off of.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

thanks for the info on the 8822 people.

ichabod, i think the dust is the culprit. when i prep the turface i use an angled slab so it will drain fast and a shovel to turn it over a few times to get the fines out of the pores.

when you think about it the dust will have a tremendous surface area to give shit off of.

I believe you are right about the dust. My thinking is that is suffocated my roots by clinging to them. The 6.5 PH does not seem to far off and will move fairly easily I believe.

A good cleansing should do the trick. I will try something similar to what you mention.

 

[high life 45]

I flush and screen 8822, and add rice hulls. Honestly the hardest part about the PPK for me is flushing the diatomite. Takes me hours..

I think that the floor dry is dusty on purpose for cleaning up oil spills, etc. Turface is used for landscaping, excess dust in the bag might seem like a cheap product to the targeted consumer.

In the past I have used a much larger grade of diatomite thats available locally from a growstore. Its costs 3x as much as 8822. FWIW Dynagro also packages diatomite and calls is DYNA ROK. I have never used it though.
Speaking of things I will never use.
Anyone want to buy a half hp chiller?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Speaking of things I will never use.
Anyone want to buy a half hp chiller?

is that not useful at all in a PPK control bucket?

 

[mcfly420]

Some bags of turface/profile have nutrient imbalances, so always rinse and maybe soak it.

 

[delta9nxs]

"Anyone want to buy a half hp chiller?"

and 12 cooltubes

 

[delta9nxs]

is that not useful at all in a PPK control bucket?

nope! the reason being that the o2 supply is coming from ambient air so there is no need to force the water temps down to hold more o2.

the water could actually be oxygen depleted, totally anaerobic, and the device would function great.

the solution in my system almost never gets below 80f. yet no root rot and huge, fast growing, healthy plants.

 

[Mister_D]

Maybe i've just been really lucky. Been mixing floor-dry with my coco for a year or two now, never once flushed/screened it and never had any problems at all. Not much dust in any of the bags i've bought though either......... Hmmmmmmmmmm things to ponder

 

[high life 45]

A Demonic Deluge

Pretty sure D9 and I both have chillers collecting dust.
No chiller needed in this system.



Here some roots that grew between my top and bottom bucket last round. Average water temp was around 74.

Ps I prefer uline's 3.5 gallon buckets over us plastics because the lid fits nice and snug when you put another bucket on top. With the new Jumanji top bucket I have removed the lid completely.