The Trillion Dollar Coin

[mean mr.mustard]

I don't know why we don't make it a tribute to the Fed.

If it's going to be a president with a dumb quote why not W?

He was ripe with stupid lines.

I really like this one:

"This is an impressive crowd -- the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite -- I call you my base."

 

[mpd]

I don't know why we don't make it a tribute to the Fed.

If it's going to be a president with a dumb quote why not W?

He was ripe with stupid lines.

I really like this one:

"This is an impressive crowd -- the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite -- I call you my base."

At first I thought you were one of those people who like picking fights, but now I realize that I am wrong and realize you are one of those busybody liberal jackasses who thinks they are enlightened and somehow so superior to the rest of a kind that you can't resist telling us these little pearls of wisdom that we could really do without, especially since you don't actually know what you are talking about. Typical youngster. All the wrong answers. Where is that ignore button when you really need it.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm glad you've realized that.

Now convince me it's true.

How don't I know what I'm talking about?

Typical youngster?! Sorry I just peed a little bit laughing at your "realization".

I don't like fighting or I'd tell you what I ASSUME about you.

It's okay, I just hope you find your ignore button.

 

[bentom187]

the trillion dollar coin/s makes no difference,its just the intrest on the principal 16 trillion or so in national debt.its a usury charge for using their (FED) credit.it also does'nt do anything in the way of spending or lawfull money.it would just be more inflation,plus the debt of the logistics involved.

Jim Grant: Trillion-Dollar Coin Not the Answer "The United States Is Truly Submerging
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poor krugman....

Hans-Herman Hoppe on how to respond to Krugman
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[jayjayfrank]

"The combined net worth of the 2012 class of the 400 richest Americans is $1.7 trillion, up from $1.5 trillion a year ago." - The Forbes 400: The Richest People In America

i don't think a trillion is a lot anymore and i pretty much ignore any argument that starts out with 5 mins of how big a number one trillion is. the recent development of bitcoin and planetary resources discount the gold argument to me.


following the logic of simple questions. if printing paper money doesnt make people rich how does stamping a coin to pay for that debt matter?

 

[bentom187]

its through law that congress or the teasurey can just assign a value to this platnum coin,they are actually doing what the constitution authorizes.FRN's however are just debt obligations,you can pile them up but they will just loose value as the government trys to print its way to solvencey.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-"center/faqs/currency/pages/legal-tender.aspx
What are Federal Reserve notes and how are they different from United States notes?
Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Federal Reserve Banks obtain the notes from our Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP). It pays the BEP for the cost of producing the notes, which then become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks, and obligations of the United States Government.

Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."

unfortunatley this isnt the whole truth you can redeem its right there in the USC

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/411
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.




a FRN is credit and a first lein on all your property so anything bought with a FRN isnt yours leagaley,but thats besides the point that collecting FRN's isnt a product of choosing it as valuable but its a operation of law.
real money has traditionally been chosen for divisablility,value:weight,durablility and it is also tougher to debase,and chosen by the free market(its subjective).
also when they print more money prices on consumer goods/commodities go up wich means what you saved or trying to live off of isnt going to buy as much in the future if it continues.
so its only valuable if they say so not you,for now.
its late im gonna quit here but i think i covered some of the basic stuff from a austrian school perspective.

 

[jayjayfrank]

"so anything bought with a FRN isnt yours leagaley"

so stuff i bought with money isnt mine?

i understand the "never save because in the future your money is not worth as much" i spend most all money as soon as i get it.

in the near future companies like planetary resources will mine asteroids for precious metals allowing them the potential to control orders of magnitude more gold than may currently be on earth. not saying this has happened, it likely will, but its my biggest argument for why gold isn't all that hot and important.

 

[bentom187]

"so anything bought with a FRN isnt yours leagaley"

so stuff i bought with money isnt mine?

i understand the "never save because in the future your money is not worth as much" i spend most all money as soon as i get it.

in the near future companies like planetary resources will mine asteroids for precious metals allowing them the potential to control orders of magnitude more gold than may currently be on earth. not saying this has happened, it likely will, but its my biggest argument for why gold isn't all that hot and important.

Re: ownership that is correct unless you have evidence to the contrary,also the market is manipulated by the government and the FED and they are making it easy to borrow and spend not save,actually inflation is a hidden tax on saving and people who are on fixed incomes have to make their dollars stretch when prices increase,this should be a matter of free will and markets not what some phd thinks should happen.save your money if you want to i dont think you should be punished for it.
it really isnt about just buying gold or silver its about letting the market choose what is money,so im not rooting for gold per se' its just traditionally what has emmirged as money for the past few thousand years.here is a video with a few ideas on what to do.

Ron Paul Hearing on Sound Money and the Road to Monetary Freedom -- 8/2/12
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James Grant Asks The "PhD Standard" To Allow Markets To Finally Clear
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[SpasticGramps]

in the near future companies like planetary resources will mine asteroids for precious metals allowing them the potential to control orders of magnitude more gold than may currently be on earth.

What's "near". I think our definitions are probably different.

Plus, I have a hard time buying the argument that it will be cheaper to build spaceships and mine on asteroids than it will on Earth or that the quantity on asteroids will be so huge that it will negate the extreme costs of operations associated with working in space and transporting product back to earth.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I don't know why we don't make it a tribute to the Fed.

I think that would be fitting too. Keynes or Bernanke or a picture of the FED building would be great.

A tribute to their competence in enabling the fiscal profligacy of our nation and all the consequences associated with such.

Our debt and it's associate issues is a symptom of our monetary policy. Occupants of the White House, be they either blue team or red team, are distractions not worthy of being on a Trillion Dollar coin.

The Trillion Dollar coin in all it's absurdness should represent the man behind the curtain because it would be the crowning achievement monetary madness.

 

[damitrius777]

Why not make a trillion dollar piece of popcorn.....just saying.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Primarily because popcorn isn't very permanent.

You can write a check on basically anything relatively permanent.

If the seller accepts then the bank has to honor it.

The funny thing is how the banks work now.

The treasury has restrictions on what they can print, and even the Fed has to accept what they issue before it's legitimate.

It's a nonsensical slope... but then again I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[greenmatter]

if they put a reagan (or any of the presidents after him) on that coin we are all going to have to get use to saying dicks or tails when we flip a coin

maybe they should put a president on both sides ............ but cocksucker or useless douche would be hard to call in the air

 

[jayjayfrank]

What's "near". I think our definitions are probably different.

like 100 years, which in economic times would be like, what, 8 boom and bust cycles or 2 great depressions

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/asteroid-mining-2022-a-1-trillion-bet-for-earth-2013-01-08

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/s...ompany-is-working-to-mine-asteroids.html?_r=0

and it was more along the lines for why gold isn't so hot, not necessarily that space rocks will save us(they will)

"it really isnt about just buying gold or silver its about letting the market choose what is money,so im not rooting for gold per se' its just traditionally what has emmirged as money for the past few thousand years."

^^this

it is in the 'powers at be' best interest not to let 'someone else decide what is money'

i can get behind reagan or bernanke on the coin

not using 'traditional money' is on the horizon

 

[SpasticGramps]

"it really isnt about just buying gold or silver its about letting the market choose what is money,so im not rooting for gold per se' its just traditionally what has emmirged as money for the past few thousand years."

^^this

it is in the 'powers at be' best interest not to let 'someone else decide what is money'

It's in the status quo's best interest to not let the market decide what money is. They do everything in their power to manipulate the price of silver and gold, but as fiat continues to lose credibility no institution will be able to stop the rotation from fiat into tangible assets.

Gold and commodity based currencies will always serve as a hedge against the printing press because commodity based exchange is at the heart of economic productivity and fiat currencies are always printed into oblivion as failing governments try to meet obligations that they can not meet due to structural changes in economy.

The Budensbank (German central bank) has begun repatriating their gold from the NY FED and French central bank. Central banks are slowly becoming wary of counter party risk and unlike in 08 when the central banks stepped in to save the world this time the counter party risk is from central bank to central bank (ie no more savior).

In the end central planning always fails and gives way to organic markets (if only in short spurts).

 

[Galactic]

Re: The Trillion Dollar Coin

I hope they shut the lights off, take the bulbs, and close the door on their way out.

We will bring our own lights.

 

[mpd]

I think that would be fitting too. Keynes or Bernanke or a picture of the FED building would be great.

A tribute to their competence in enabling the fiscal profligacy of our nation and all the consequences associated with such.

Our debt and it's associate issues is a symptom of our monetary policy. Occupants of the White House, be they either blue team or red team, are distractions not worthy of being on a Trillion Dollar coin.

The Trillion Dollar coin in all it's absurdness should represent the man behind the curtain because it would be the crowning achievement monetary madness.

This

QFT

 

[lost in a sea]

The Trillion Dollar coin in all it's absurdness should represent the man behind the curtain because it would be the crowning achievement monetary madness.

yep golds going to be the new global reserve currency,, the dollar cant stay..

currency wars are all the rage at the moment..

 

[mean mr.mustard]

This

QFT

It's funny how my thoughts reassembled make sense...

 

[SpasticGramps]

currency wars are all the rage at the moment..

You'd figure the general market is getting close to figuring out what's going on when even the head of the German central bank is talking about it.

Weidmann warns of currency war risk

By Michael Steen in Frankfurt
The erosion of central bank independence around the world threatens to unleash a round of competitive exchange rate devaluations, which leading economies have so far avoided during the financial crisis, the president of Germany’s Bundesbank warned on Monday.

Welcome to the printfest Weidmann.