Rule of 100 seeds

[Storm Shadow]

100 at least to put it down....I just recently popped 100+ landrace Iranians to find special phenos.... I have almost a 1,000 seeds and would love to be able to pop them all at once and find that "ONE" .... How many human beings are born to find a human as Huge and athletic as Shaq? Better yet how many humans are born to find ones as fast as Usain Bolt?

 

[stickz2walz]

100 at least to put it down....I just recently popped 100+ landrace Iranians to find special phenos.... I have almost a 1,000 seeds and would love to be able to pop them all at once and find that "ONE" .... How many human beings are born to find a human as Huge and athletic as Shaq? Better yet how many humans are born to find ones as fast as Usain Bolt?

LSU found shaq. bolt kinda found himself. he was crazy fast since in grade school.

 

[sprinkl]

to be honest 100 plants its not enough .. ofcourse you can find intresting pheno from 100 plants, but best breeders in buisness planting thousands..

It depends what youre starting with. Stable landraces you will need thousands to find a special plant that excels.
But if youre growing huge numbers there is no way you will be able to test all plants thoroughly and a lot of selection will be done by appearance, culling plants before they even flower. I think a lot gets lost this way.
F2's of excellent stock will produce a lot of excellent plants with a lot of variation.

Some of the most acclaimed strains parented by the haze males from mns involved NO selection. They were simply the only 2 seeds that germed from an oldass batch of seeds. Thats something to think about.
Imo its more to do with hyping than anything else. We have excellent stock. With some skill any landrace can be grown indoors and will whoop domestic strains' shameful butts.

100 at least to put it down....I just recently popped 100+ landrace Iranians to find special phenos.... I have almost a 1,000 seeds and would love to be able to pop them all at once and find that "ONE" .... How many human beings are born to find a human as Huge and athletic as Shaq? Better yet how many humans are born to find ones as fast as Usain Bolt?

What % of people actually try and persue their athletic capabilities? I was the best runner in my class, could give a shit about an athletic career tbh.

 

[symbiote420]

Landrace strains must be acclimated to excel in an indoor enviro! They are known to throw herms when introduced to indoor growing conditions! I don't believe the landrace hype either, that's yet another attempt to pull the wool over on the naive ...."We journey to the farthest reaches of the earth to find gear you will never be able to obtain otherwise" ....Wth is that? A landrace or IBL strain is good for the person with breeding in mind, a hybrid is called a hybrid for a reason ....it's the best of both parents, if I'm growing for meds or commercial I think the are a better choice! You have the variation to pick what suits you from the progeny and take cuts of it/them to keep running ...I don't think many peeps with grow ops are running seeds only in them ...they're running clones! Why would I want super uniformity in a seed strain if I'm gonna be running clones? Why wouldn't I wanna pick from a nice variety in the bean grow to keep a cut of that's killer? Variety is the spice of life!

 

[MiMedicineMan]

true but a growing trend in cali is heirloom genetics. You can buy a clone of panama red or acolpulco gold, or monkey paw. Theres a reason those strains are still around and people are turning to those now. And people have still been "hoarding" the genes since the 70's. I got a cut of bubba 76 from emerald triangle. I have to test it, but it looks just as good as the bubba...

There was a durban poison in one of the cups that won that had like 21% Not that I've grown it, but I would.

 

[Nspecta]

I have really been studying up on breeding. Is it true the best breeders grow out 100 seeds, choose the best 10 males and females to breed and do it all over again for several generations? I have read the small breeder has very little chance of finding a freak pheno. Thanks

If you want to breed for yourself & your friends there is nothing wrong with breeding with a ten pack or two.

If you wanna be a professional breeder it is best to start with at least 100 or more seeds. Most self-proclaimed breeders do not start with anywhere close to that and many of them start with ten or less seeds themselves.

Just as an example: On my last little project I started with roughly 160 F1 seeds...they were 6 year old seeds so I only ended up with 76 seedlings...the odds didn't play in my favor, with a 40/60 split, as I ended up with only 30 females...out of those 30 girls I found only 1 girl with the trait/s I was looking for. In this project I used 13 of the 46 males to open pollenate all the girls...for the next round I'll start with at least a hundred F2's grown from my select females seeds. If I was working with a smaller population the likelihood of finding what I was looking for would be very slim...something like one in a hundred and sixty or one in sixteen ten packs. This is just one example.

 

[MrSterling]

Breeders definitely lie about plant numbers but it's not to hide how easy the work of breeding is. It's to hide the shallowness of their own work. We aren't allowed the numbers to make stable lines and cultivars. 9/10 of commercial breeder work are unworked by real agricultural and horticultural standards.

 

[guerilllataktic]

it is better to be lucky than good,

 

[sprinkl]

Breeders definitely lie about plant numbers but it's not to hide how easy the work of breeding is. It's to hide the shallowness of their own work. We aren't allowed the numbers to make stable lines and cultivars. 9/10 of commercial breeder work are unworked by real agricultural and horticultural standards.

It's an industry that is for a good part fueled by hype and hot names, and in general massive money making like any industry out there.
Bringing out a hot sounding cross as fast as possible seems to be the main goal of a lot of breeders.
There's simply no time to breed anything stable if you're playing that game.
It's standard that you have to find a winning pheno and then clone it for optimal results. I bet with a lot of strains if you'd do big grows from seed the results would be poor. Especially with hydro setups, as you're feeding all the plants the same.
While it should be so that you could grow from seed and get uniform plants that have more vigor than clones. Though uniform/inbred strains have less vigor than hybrid F1 crosses.
If all strains were to be inbred and stabilized first, they could sell true F1 hybrid crosses that have max vigor and predictable results. Kind of like with any veggie out there.

For the homegrower that prefers a bit of variation over max yields you could say it's not a bad thing that there is a nice variation in a lot strains. Though it often means there are weak plants to be found smell/taste wise, or very impractical specimens due to height or duration issues.
While instead it could be so that strains are bred to have an intentional variation in taste, smell and high, but with comparable heights and flowering times.

 

[mack 10]

to be honest 100 plants its not enough .. ofcourse you can find intresting pheno from 100 plants, but best breeders in buisness planting thousands..

Holla! I think Sams said he picked from 14,ooo males,For skunk #1(wonder how many females he picked from?)Then select the best 50 by eye, After youhave grown them out,then test the absolute best 10 males by G/C, making your selection, depending on the lab results, (highest thc, cbd or what ever) Still need to do progeny tests to see if your goal has been met.
He even had charts, so you could tick off certain traits, ie flower time, hardyness,etc.
Good luck on your mission.
Would love to do the same, somewhere in Africa maybe?
mack.

 

[symbiote420]

14k males??? Sounds like one of those overwhelming stories that I spoke of! There's no way, I repeat no way, come hell or high water that one man ...or even a four man crew can do that! That has to be atleast a 30,000 plant operation, right?
I know his back and hands have to be f'ed up from all the watering & hand trimming that was required over the years .....weren't any fancy trimming machines around back then either!

4 divided by 30,000 = 7,500 to tend a piece, 7.500 plants that must to be fed, observed, and recorded! LOL I'm done! Eddy Lepp's medical garden in Cali had that many plants but he had a nice size crew to work it with him too!

 

[grod31]

you guys seem to be forgetting the most original way to select a male for breeding. you might not even need to grow out 1.
Its traveling , and hunting.
yeah i would love to grow out 100 himalian w/ethfucks and choose the best to work with next year, but i would much rather go to the Himalayas talk to people in some remote regions and collect there pollen.
just throwing it out there.

 

[mack 10]

@ sym, indeed sounds crazy but i wouldn't doubt the skunkman's word.Remember they used to rent those massive 40,000 sq m greenhouses.~(in Holland,switzerland early ninetes) but i think he had already made the skunk 1 before coming to Holland.

Nowdays is just like you say. closet style breeding 9 out of 10 times.

be lucky.
mack.

 

[BasementGrower]

i was just going to say.. ya there are people who do 10s 100s 1000s. 10,000s at a time.. but still a small grower as long as he keeps a clone of the best one.. u can do it in packs of 10.. and keep the best from each pack.. and then put all ur keepers in to flower together.. and pick from that.. i just got office lol. im going to make a nice spreadsheet to start my process again for breeding an crossing. even tho im startnig with barely any genetics.. but.. thanks to everyone that helped.. i appreciate it .. will be starting the seeds very shortly.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Making hybrids, s1's, and breeding are completely different. 90% of the shit out there are hybrids, and s1's. Making crosses, and s1's does not make you a breeder. I know of very few breeders. I know of thousands of seed makers.

 

[IG420]

what if you chose 10 F1 clones of 1 select male and 10 clones of 1 select female... Would this be the best way to create a stable F2?

 

[barefootseeds]

The F2 generation will not be as stable or consistent as the F1s no matter how you go about it.

Your best bet would be to open pollenate as many F1s as you possibly can. Choosing similar F1 parents won't make the line more stable its just going to hurt you down the road

 

[IG420]

So if you took 10 of your F1 Females and pollinated with 10 F1 Males then their should be more stability later on

 

[barefootseeds]

Yeah that would be fine. When you get to working with the F2 plants remember that the F2s will have the most variation of any generation and the more plants that are grown out the higher the chance of having the desired traits of each parent further down the line. Each generation after the F2 will have less variation and you could go back to a smaller number of plants for selection for F3 F4 etc

If the parents you are using for your F1 cross are not true breeding plants than you would want to treat the plants from the F1 cross as if they were F2s and select from as many plants as possible.

 

[IG420]

IC, well I will try this out when i get a chance to pop 100 F1's