lack of good discussion about (guerilla) soil

[Buddah Watcha]

hi BW. this is my 2cents.

your mix does sound much like indoor. I guess many would disagree and it depends on type of soil but I wouldn't use that much peat ,if any and perlite in GG. peat offers nothing but water holding ability and with 33% of compost you have more than enough of organic metter for good dreinage and water holding ability (plus nutrients and beneficial microbes). I would consider water cristals. I would use perlite to loosen your soil if it's really hard clay or loam. again with high amounts of organic metter like compost you have already improved water holding ability for loose soils and soil texture/dreinage for clay soils. if the soil is light (sandy,rocky..) you don't need any perlite. good compost does both things when mixed with native soil. in poting mixes perlite offers dreinage for peat which has tendancy to get compact.

basicly I would make bigger holes (25gal is not a big hole imo) if you want bigger plants. and spend that peat (and perlite) money on good compost or worm castings even better. imo even 10-20% of compost is more than enough for any hole. oh and epsoma plant tone already includes micorizhae.

Thanks for the input man, the place I grow is a marsh like environment. I need good drainage for the soil. I'll definitely consider digging some bigger holes, i plan on having one or two 100gal holes, but the place is really shitty to dig holes, so we'll c how that goes! I think i should avoid water crystals due to the marsh place.

I also got some home made wormcastings that I plan on using, not much tho, maybe like 20 gals.

But i'll def think about that, thanks for the input man!

 

[Tiami]

thanks for all responses guys. looks like we might have some discussion here.

@bayangreen I'm not sure what you meen by how the soil reacts to wet/dry season. but I guess those small 5gal buckets easily dry out during summer drought. why don't you plant in holes?

@idiit hey man thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. your first sentance is what I think all farming or gardening is about. it takes years to improve unfertile soil and barely anything in fertile to have a nice crop. why do you use lots of lime / Ca, Mg in fertile soils? I don't use any lime but my island is on carbonatic dolomit rocks, so I guess plenty of above in local soil.

offthehook you're right about EC meter. I should get one some day I guess when using small number NPK fert, growing in large holes which were prepared before and cooked you can't push it as hard as in limited space pots, high concentrated soilmix (indoor) grow. it takes a bit experience and to follow some basic knowledge and common sense stuff.

my plan is to start sativas earlier and use those bigger holes and indica and hybrids later in smaller but more concentrated holes. thanks.

 

[Tiami]

double post

 

[redbudduckfoot]

granulated corn fertilizer. What farmers use for feed corn, it comes in all different N-P-K ratios. 10-10-10, 15-15-15, 20-20-20, 5-10-17. I use the 10-10-10 for veg months and use the 5-10-17 for flowering months.

Just sprinkle a cup of fertilizer around the plant once a month, twice if needed.

This stuff is super cheap; a 30lb bag is like 20 bucks. thats enough for 50 1/2 lb plants.

stop feeding the plant 2 a month before harvest, plants will be acceptably yellowed, so

no worries regarding taste of weed, good flush is not a problem.

rbdf

 

[Tiami]

Thanks for the input man, the place I grow is a marsh like environment. I need good drainage for the soil. I'll definitely consider digging some bigger holes, i plan on having one or two 100gal holes, but the place is really shitty to dig holes, so we'll c how that goes! I think i should avoid water crystals due to the marsh place.

I also got some home made wormcastings that I plan on using, not much tho, maybe like 20 gals.

But i'll def think about that, thanks for the input man!

hey man I don't know a shit about your soil. you know what you need. with constantly moist soil, good drainage and bigger holes with enough food is all you need. looks like your enviroment is oppsoite to mine. took a look at your last years grow (nice buds!!), I thought your enviroment would look more swampy though. looks like your spot would benefit mostly from choping some trees down

 

[Nunsacred]

...ok, try again...

...ok, try again...

... i've had great success growing in fertile soil.

The way i tell the difference is by the lushness of the indigenous vegetation in the specific grow area....

...i lose way too many plants to rabbits, mice, bugs.

This, really, says it all. Nice post.

Tiamia, the OP, also said that they lost plants to pests.

So, in answer to the thread title / original question :

Threads about soil amendment/digging holes are almost irrelevant to GG because the most important yield factors are :

• theft,
• pests,
• genetics of stock,
• mould
• extreme weather.

Hence soil amendment probably affects about 10% of the GG result for most of us.

Also it's all been covered in great depth on normal gardening forums. Get conditions right for a veg patch, canna will thrive in it.

Also I think it's kind of dull, all this talk about digging holes and soil additives.

It never resolves anything anyway because we're growing in different soils.
if I told you the brand name and exact volume of compost used for the plant in my avatar,
would it interest you more than the details of the rabbit fence?

*shrug*

 

[Tiami]

hmm, nice way to say fuck off to someone sir

one more time, that is your truth, your way in your situation. you can have dozens of spots, I can't. I'll try to pull most from my couple of plants. maybe you don't need to water even once, it's three months without a drop here. theft might be your biggest concern, it's far from that to me. what's so hard to understand here? soil amendments being unimportant? try telling that to Tom Hill for example.

you might consider my grow as a backyard gardening from now on.

yes people lost their crop even before me but they're still growing. nothing new.

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Informative soil prep info, but not GG practical...

Informative soil prep info, but not GG practical...

Tiami, it might be that getting fussy about soil
is inappropriate in guerilla grows.

This is how I see it, anyway.
I had a nice half pound plant last year with no soil prep at all.
I just make sure the ones growing successfully get some top dressing with fish blood bone powder and that's about all.

For me and many other experienced GGers, site prep is often wasted work and effort, better spent putting more plants in different places.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but it's the truth.

And it is the truth...or at the very least, the reality of TRUE guerilla style growing. First, IMO, planting a few plants out in the wild IS NOT guerilla growing. Hard truth? A serious GG wouldnt hike a hundred yards to tend a few plants. Volume defines GG. In the old days, "high tech" guerilla growing was a 2 man, 8 inch hole auger. LOL Other than that, 3 ft holes filled with Super Soil, a nearby water source and 1 visit a week was all that was risked. No mamby pamby, fancy back yard additives or soil monitoring and if you went at it like you were growing a grape vineyard, it would be safer just to stay home.

And yea, in the true sense of GG, theft trumps everything. Or rather, RISK OF DISCOVERY. I dont know about now days but I do know one thing about GG that has not or ever will change. The rules are simple but constant: 1) Dont dawdle: Get in, get out, each time, every time. 2) Dont leave a trail. 3) Plant as much as you can to offset guaranteed attrition. Guaranteed attrition includes probable damage from wild animaL/critters, weather, DISCOVERY etc.

Last but not least: Multiple patches. Proven to be the key to it all. The true guerilla grower will plant 2, 3, 4 and more "sites" with the simple goal that all he needs is for one patch to survive. Smaller patches are harder to detect and forest critters being mostly territorial may ruin one patch but another patch a mile away might not suffer the same problems. Trade offs are a big part of the game. And as Nun said, to a "certified" guerrilla style grower, soil considerations are but a small part of the overall success equation...CC

 

[Guyute54]

I get OPOP plants pretty often in one of my guerilla spots. All i do is till the soil. it's in a low spot almost swampy (dig down a foot and you will hit water). The soil is almost black and is very easy to work with. other spots i have are a little tougher to reach the OPOP mark but have come real close on many. when I go out to dig holes i bring a 5 gallon bucket with and take top soil from around the area and make a mound on top of the hole I already have tilled. just be carefull as making mounds will make the plants stick out a little more in my experiance.

I have added EWC as top dressings with good results. Also add Bat guano as a top dressing for flower. Those are a few things that i can add that the animals in my area will leave alone.

 

[Tiami]

hi CC. thanks for reply. I'm totally awere of your words just like any person who has done a couple of grows. I should have been more clear about my growing situation. sorry for the missleading thread tittle. but I said it a couple of times it is not a die hard GG. it's a specific situation. really small island in mediterrainian with almost zero people living there and few tourists during summer. but still I need to be carefull, of those few people everybody knows and sees everything. my house is basicly the last house on the island so I can only grow 'around' my house. if people saw me a couple of times in places 'I don't have a shit thing to do, prefferably with two water containers in my hands', I imagine it would ring their bell. so it leaves me totally limited with growing space, few spots, few plants on each spot. there's no way I can have spots miles around seperated from each other. and with summer being totally dry and watering situation, I only feel half comfortable doing it in places I feel could be safe enough.

this leaves my in situation to either not grow at all, or trying to do my best and something I love. I guess in my situation soil preparetion could be benefical?

 

[Nunsacred]

hmm, nice way to say fuck off to someone sir

You asked "why not discuss soil more?"
and suggested that people might be 'scared to talk', and then disregarded my answer about why......

If you want to discuss your soil mix, fine, but don't pretend you've got some remedy for a common ignorance among GGers.

Guyute54 has given the polite answer I would have given if you had asked what the sensible GG site prep is for your situation.

 

[2 Legal Co]

no cows at least 100 miles around me.

but donky, goat and sheep shit works also..

Goat or sheep would be good. They won't add weeds to your site. Donkey I think will/are weed movers/planters.

Poultry is Really good but it's really hot if not composted. So keep the ratio down and once the plants are starting to grow make sure it stays watered.

Just scatter it on the ground about 3' diameter and spade it into the dirt. Sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[2 Legal Co]

If you want to preclude anything else from growing around your weeds,lol,, Use mulch or a ground cloth.

The upper roots need air, so don't use plastic. It'll keep the air and water from getting to the roots properly.

 

[Tiami]

@Guyote thanks for stopping by. really nice plant, what is it?

@2 Legal do yo meen to use fresh manure as top dressing? I wish I had access to more manure, unfortunatly there are very few animals around. there's nothing that can beat quality manure and compost.

 

[idiit]

i live in the south east usa. the clay, clay/sandy soil here is very difficult to grow in. no one around here has seen quality outdoor locally grown canna buds except for mine. i'm serious. hundreds have tried and failed. it's not just the soil. the rippers, multiple full time helicopters, suspicious general public find most gardens within a year or two. the mice, bugs, rabbits love to kill non established plants. we have extreme heat and humidity from june thru october. this combo is perfect for the devastating molds/fungi that ruin most patches. summer droughts were the norm until the last three years. now the summers are much wetter ( hence the practice of loosely installed plastic covered by dirt and then mulch). the soil seems to be able to go highly acidic during hot temps. and watering during the day has killed many a beginner's patch, or at least ruined the subsequent bud formation later in the fall.

soil replacement in non fertile grow areas works, amending didn't. i wasted 20+ years amending shit soil, multiple gardens every year. the fafard has a strong ph buffering capacity and i think this is one reason all the greenhouses/nurseries around here seem to use fafard for potted plants sold to the public for transplanting.

once you get the soil medium acceptable then the other factors everyone is posting do become the critical issues.

one very important aspect is the stealth involved. this is a very important topic in itself. for just one example parking a car in a guerrilla grow in the same place over time is a dead give-away.

we do have ourselves an intelligent discussion on od guerrilla grows going. .

 

[Buddah Watcha]

i live in the south east usa. the clay, clay/sandy soil here is very difficult to grow in. no one around here has seen quality outdoor locally grown canna buds except for mine. i'm serious. hundreds have tried and failed. it's not just the soil. the rippers, multiple full time helicopters, suspicious general public find most gardens within a year or two. the mice, bugs, rabbits love to kill non established plants. we have extreme heat and humidity from june thru october. this combo is perfect for the devastating molds/fungi that ruin most patches. summer droughts were the norm until the last three years. now the summers are much wetter ( hence the practice of loosely installed plastic covered by dirt and then mulch). the soil seems to be able to go highly acidic during hot temps. and watering during the day has killed many a beginner's patch, or at least ruined the subsequent bud formation later in the fall.

soil replacement in non fertile grow areas works, amending didn't. i wasted 20+ years amending shit soil, multiple gardens every year. the fafard has a strong ph buffering capacity and i think this is one reason all the greenhouses/nurseries around here seem to use fafard for potted plants sold to the public for transplanting.

once you get the soil medium acceptable then the other factors everyone is posting do become the critical issues.

one very important aspect is the stealth involved. this is a very important topic in itself. for just one example parking a car in a guerrilla grow in the same place over time is a dead give-away.

we do have ourselves an intelligent discussion on od guerrilla grows going. .

I encounter the same clay soil where I grow. Hauling dirt is the only way for plants to thrive in such soil. Plus there is water beds not too far deep, which is good cause I don't ever need to water them plants!

I'm hoping Sandy Hurricane did a good job at clearing some trees and opening some new spots for them girls this year!

 

[Tiami]

looks like I'm fortunate enough there's no deer, rabits, skunks, slugs, hurricanes, helicopters and much people around here. with all that and probably much more I guess Nunsacred's method is the key. but I have my concerns too, rats being number one. there's also nasty winds here. pests of course. drought and neighburs. birds?

if you guys want to discuss the above, well enough.

I'm more interested in enviourmental factors and practices that influence our crop. there's plenty of stuff which hasn't been discussed yet. it is my belief that improving soil fertility is a major factor at least for my situation. I'm defenetly not the only person here. basicly anyone who's using same (safe) spots for years can benefit a lot from improving fertility of his spot. you take what you sow.

 

[Guyute54]

IMO you should start making your own compost. And to tell you the truth I don't remember what the strain of that plant was.

Winds - either staking them or getting them behind natural wind blockers (trees, shrubs,hills) will help with that. But problem give up some sunlight using natural blockers.

My encounters with birds is the make nests sometimes in the plants but don't seem to bother much else. The have almost made me wreck a new pair of underware when they fly out at you as your cleaning up leaves.

Moisture is another huge factor in successful plants. Mulching helps but sometimes the only thing you can do is haul water to them. So planting near a good water source can save you lots of work, not to mention a smaller path you create. Season with droughts are also tough because animals need to get water some how to. In my area some animals dig at the dirt while others such as mice chew at the base of the plant.

And as far as neighbors go. Just go out of your way to be extremely nice to them. Help them out without wanting anything in return. If they ever do notice things they will be more likely to talk to you about it instead of the law if you are cool with them.

 

[bombadil.360]

the best ammendment for a gorila grow are Earth Worm Castings. EWC. period.

droughts? no enough water? use water crystals, in fair measure of course.

shit soil all together? replace it with EWC and Vermiculite. if these are dry, they are light to carry.

strong winds? that's a tough one... if possible, or if it exists, maybe find a spot that's lower than the surroundings, that way the wind will not penetrate as strong.

forget shit like perlite btw...

EWC will stabilize pH and provide tons of nutrients and improve soil aeration.

vermiculite will add body / mass, helping you fill the holes properly.

mulch with leaves from surrounding vegetation. no pine tree stuff or the like as it will increase acidity too much.

finding the proper site takes a lot of proper scouting, so it takes tons of time. then prepping it is tons of work too. will you germinate on site? best way, it's diffult to carry established seedlings for all kinds of reasons...

but once you have all your seedlings established, all the site is ready and planted, then yes, once a week is more than enough to take a look to see about pests and diseases and then start dealing with them if necessary.

also cultivar selection is very very important, as your plants should be genetically adapted to the specific climate of your chosen spot.

tons of work.

it only pays off if you manage to provide plentiful for yourself for a whole year. if you want more than just for yourself, work load and security concerns increase exponentially.

peace

 

[Hortic]

I hope it's ok that I ask a question in your thread. It's related to guerilla growing and soil.

I had a 400l patch of soil on a mountain last season, and the soil is still there. Can I re-use that soil? I was thinking about mixing the old soil 50/50 with fresh soil. I'd like to do this to save both money, time and effort because it's a bitch carrying soil up there. Do I need to amend the soil?

The way I look at it, I just want to give the plants more root space, I think the nutrient issue is kind of secondary since I can use nutrients to fix any problems I see in the plants.
If someone has experience with this sort of thing I'd appreciate some input.