Mont Rolls with the Punches

[Arthritis_sucks]

This is what i use an have been using for several years. They are from the company Canna, an work very well together. GH makes a high salt tollerant root inoculant but i prefer Rhizotonic. Let put it this way...i got a 5 liter bottle of cannazyme I use from time to time when its needed, its a must have in my garden. Rhizotonic is the best root builder i have ever used. I use it in the nute mix through veg an for the first 3 weeks i foliar with it in flower.

I would either wait for it or find a different store that carries it. What other root stimulators did ya see at ur local?

 

[montroller]

They have BioRoot, Voodoo Juice, Root excelurator, then some other things that I am not sure if they are specifically for roots like Age Old Kelp, and some kind of liquid seaweed.

Doing some research it seems a lot of people think nothing can compare to Rhizotonic but the next best thing seems to be that Root Excelurator. I am going to try to do some more research but I might just get the RE tomorrow.

The shop is small and the only one in my town so I don't buy from other hydro stores just to help keep them around so I will just order the Canna products from them if I can't find something comparable.

They did have Hygrozyme at the store, not sure if that can replace Cannazyme.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

roots excelerator kicks ass too. but the cannazyme rhizotonic combo would be ur best bet. hygrozyme has cooked in a res for me so i havent used that stuff since 05'.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

i've used voodoo juice too but it works better with carbo load. been there done that with alot of nutes an additives an all my suggestions are from my own trial an error. 20 years of growing gives ya alot of time to get it right an wrong lol.

 

[montroller]

Just got back from the hydro store. I returned the Rhizo Boost and was talking to them about getting the Canna products ordered. The earliest they could get it here would be next Monday and I think my root system needs some help before then.

I was already considering the HG Root Excelurator and was pretty happy to find that they had an enzymatic product as well called MultiZen. So I grabbed a bottle of each and threw them in the res.

Root Excelurator - 1.1 ml/g
MultiZen - 3.8 ml/g

I saw another flier in the tent today and I am wondering if the treatment was enough. I still have the mosquito dunks in each res but I am not sure if they will be enough. But I think the roots are starting to recover because they are most definitely starting to grow again.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

good call, H&G will do the job. The cuts i got came with a bonus.....thripes. So thats what ya proba ly got too. Check the leaves on all ur plants an look for tiny black dots....its their poop. If ya find that then ya got thripes. Get some Monteray Garden insect spray...main ingrediant is Spinosad. will kill em with one foliar spray.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Apes got thripes, so ya prob got em too. Their easy to get rid of, just get a bottle of Monterey Garden Insect Spray which its main ingrediant is Spinosad. One spray an done. A forsure way to tell that they are thripes is look for the tiny black dots on the top of leaves...its their poop.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Im not to sure its safe to use dunks with the bene's an a enzyme product. If its thripes the dunks will do nothing anyway.

 

[montroller]

I noticed a silvery white residue on some of the leaves and misted it off. I should have taken a picture before I did but I guess that is a sign of thrips. I will try to grab some of the monteray insect spray tonight. Any other products with spinosad that might work in case they don't have that?

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

google it, I only know of Monterey but im sure there is otber products. that silvery sheen is from thripes too. 100% sure ya got thripes which are easier than gnats to get rid of.

 

[montroller]

I went back in there to check for any more silver residue and found one leaf that got really bad.

Is it normal for it to concentrate in one area like this? Does this look like it is from thrips?

Walmart, Lowes, and Orchard didn't have the monteray insect spray so tomorrow I will check the hydro store but I might have to order it online.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

now that is PM....LOL I got that too on my King Louie XIII. Safer copper soap spray keeps it at bay. I read Eagle20 I believe is a systemic PM killer so it wont come back. But if the envoirment gets too humid then it creates a perfect enviorment for it. I'll take a pic of the 2 things I use.

 

[montroller]

I don't know if should add another systemic chemical in there after already doing to BTS. I heard about people having success with a milk and water solution so I am going to try that route tonight at 2 parts milk to 9 parts water. If I don't see improvement soon then I will probably pick up something like the Zero Tolerance and concern copper soap.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

I stay organic on my fungicides an pesticides. Was just sayin about the eagle20 what some use.....the milk method works great.

 

[UnknownProphet]

Wow chuck those cuts and start fresh!

The array of problems your facing with these sounds like a nightmare. And althought Im positive all of the are treatable, youre still only going to be nursing them back, but I promise they wont thrive with such a stressful upbringing.

My advice is to chuck them. Bleach down EEEEEVERYTHING. Maybe even pop seeds if you can't find clean bug and mold free cuts. One reason of many is you dont even know if you have aphids or gnats, the two are incredibly different and if its root aphids your fucked because if you see fliers thats like their 4th generation, the other 3 are feasting on your roots. The bayer you used is a systemic so its in your plant now and will remain forever regardless what the bottle says, at least trace amounts of the chemical Imidacloprid. But then again you didnt use enough and now that colony could build a resistence. Then you have PM and dont recognize it...I mean I dont want to be the bearer of bad news but to grow quality cannabis you must know what all these infections are before blindly buying the suggestion from "the guy at the hydro shop". PM is and will also forever be in and around you plants in their current condition. To remedy PM you then need to use another systemic, organic remedies just will not cut it believe me I wish they did. So take into account your final harvest will have Imid from the bayer and residuals of a fungicide. Now its not all horrible news and I want you to take solace that IF you do start over you have much better chances at having a quality harvest. And althougth Ive never done flood and drain I will come back and try and help you where I can.

Oh and another thing...I believe you said something like you were feeding 7.5 micro/2.5 bloom? If so and you want to stay with GH I would suggest 6micro/9bloom. Rez has a great formula that works great that is easy to follow, but personally I prefer house and garden or canna for flavor purposes.

Hope that helps. Best of luck regardless what you choose to do.

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

I dont think the OP has used any fungicide yet an the one I suggested by Ed Rosenthal is completely organic. It is a miracle worker imho, but I agree on not using sick cuts for flowering as I grow em out an take cuts an make those cuts moms. But im havin issues on my king louie with PM that keeps poppin back up so the copper soap is not cuttin it an im about to go to the next step with ED's spray. When that doesnt work I will just kick the Louie out after i reverse her for pollen. Gonna have something from her if i cant get nugs.

6/9? thats a recipe for coco which I have been using for a long time. I believe he wants to use the 8/16 ratio for hydro ebb & flow.

Canna rocks!

 

[montroller]

Wow chuck those cuts and start fresh!

The array of problems your facing with these sounds like a nightmare. And althought Im positive all of the are treatable, youre still only going to be nursing them back, but I promise they wont thrive with such a stressful upbringing.

My advice is to chuck them. Bleach down EEEEEVERYTHING. Maybe even pop seeds if you can't find clean bug and mold free cuts. One reason of many is you dont even know if you have aphids or gnats, the two are incredibly different and if its root aphids your fucked because if you see fliers thats like their 4th generation, the other 3 are feasting on your roots. The bayer you used is a systemic so its in your plant now and will remain forever regardless what the bottle says, at least trace amounts of the chemical Imidacloprid. But then again you didnt use enough and now that colony could build a resistence. Then you have PM and dont recognize it...I mean I dont want to be the bearer of bad news but to grow quality cannabis you must know what all these infections are before blindly buying the suggestion from "the guy at the hydro shop". PM is and will also forever be in and around you plants in their current condition. To remedy PM you then need to use another systemic, organic remedies just will not cut it believe me I wish they did. So take into account your final harvest will have Imid from the bayer and residuals of a fungicide. Now its not all horrible news and I want you to take solace that IF you do start over you have much better chances at having a quality harvest. And althougth Ive never done flood and drain I will come back and try and help you where I can.

Oh and another thing...I believe you said something like you were feeding 7.5 micro/2.5 bloom? If so and you want to stay with GH I would suggest 6micro/9bloom. Rez has a great formula that works great that is easy to follow, but personally I prefer house and garden or canna for flavor purposes.

Hope that helps. Best of luck regardless what you choose to do.

Thanks for the advice even though it is tough to hear.

I haven't seen any gnats flying around since I used the BTS now the fliers are much smaller and when I looked up thrips it seems to be them. The powdery Mildew is something I was planning on hitting eventually and I think it presented itself because my exhaust fan turns off at night now but I left the humidifier on which probably raised humidity well over 80%.

I think I can manage the problems as long as my roots don't get hit again. That Monteray spray is proving pretty difficult to find but I did find something called Captain Jack's Deadbug Spray so I might grab that.

Since adding the Root Excel and MultiZen it looks like they have grown almost an inch, which makes me think I am gaining traction on all these problems.

Honestly I would rather go through the whole grow and hit every problem imaginable with a terrible crop and learn for next time than toss this one. I am not growing for yield or money just for knowledge at this point.


Also if anyone has any insight on what I did wrong to allow these bug problems to manifest I am open to ideas. My thoughts are that they came in through the intakes so I covered them with screen door screen. Any tips on how to prevent this from happening next time?

 

[Arthritis_sucks]

Its not ur fault at all bro, its the source where we both got our cuts. The eggs were on the cuts of thripes an the PM was an is Systemic an hard to get rid of. I got a sulfer burner I use if it comes back during flower. I dont spray anything past veg unless its an actual organic food source for supplimental feeding. The only thing you can do is create an enviorment that makes it hard to grow in.

Treat cuts you buy like they have the plague! I immediatly spray with Spinosad to kill bugs an sprinkle crumbled dunks on the solo coco cups i transplant into. This will kill gnats an thripes which are common when buying cuts from vendors.

 

[BasementGrower]

i dont know about the entire pm thing.. but ive had a couple instances were i had clones in a dome.. and didnt go to the house for a couple days.. and i came back to half the dome.. having pm all over the place.. i used the milk method.. only sprayed them a couple times.. then as they grew out i took off the lower leaves.. and transplanted up .. and honestly never some pm again . so iunno i think clones can gro out of alot of stupid crap.

 

[montroller]

that is good to know that it wasn't something I specifically did. I got that Captain Jack's Spray and just applied it, haven't seen anything flying in there since but we will see how long that lasts.

The milk worked amazingly well... I think. It left some residue but I think that was supposed to happen and the leaf that was heavily affected last night seems to have pruned off the part that was the worst. This is what she looks like today.

The white that you are seeing looks like the milk residue not so much how the PM was looking but I could be wrong. We will see if it comes back heavy, I read that I should continue the milk treatment 1 time a week.

That Root Excel is really working because I noticed some small roots coming out the bottom of the pots.

I was worried that this would happen eventually but I didn't expect it so soon. I know it isn't ideal for the roots to be exposed to light so I might try to cut some panda film to just cover the outer edges, which is the only place that light can get through.

All of these problems seem to have distracted me from my timeline and I need to start getting back on track to get these guys into flower before they get too big. I am probably going to skip the MH and just go to HPS sometime next week, if they look strong enough. Would it be better to do some transitional phase with the light switch? I have some extra cfls around that I could try to add light with before putting them under the 1000w hps. I would hate to recover them from bugs only to shock them to death with lights.