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chemistry expert needed

highonmt

Active member
Veteran
I am trying to find out what this means..............

99.0 wt% as Na4EDTA•4H2O
83.2 wt% as Na4EDTA
64.0 wt% as H4EDTA

Na4EDTA = also known as Tetrasodium EDTA

H4EDTA = Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid

4h20 is water content I believe.

I want to mix them together!!!!!

The part I don't understand is the% of each????

83+64=147%

Where is this information sourced from and what are you trying to do? There is as you noted a problem with he wt percentages. Perhaps these are three solutions as in a solution of x wt% mixed with a solution of y wt%. Give me a bit more info and I am sure I can figure it out for you 25 years of chemistry tells me there is always a solution. The compounds you are mixing are all metal chelating agents commonly found in fertilizers are you making your own nutrients?
HM
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
times like this I miss yummybud

times like this I miss yummybud

to bad yummy bud is gone. he would chime in with a serious answer, and then we would all heckle him and say if he had any clue about chemistry he wouldn't be a 35 year old virgin. Then he would cry. lol

me%20421-1.jpg
 

highonmt

Active member
Veteran
tetrasodium salt of ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid.
Na4EDTA
is the strongest, most versatile, and widely used chelant for controlling metal ions over a broad pH range in aqueous systems.

It will not chelate monovalent metal ions such as
sodium or potassium, but will chelate most multivalent metal
ions (e.g., Fe, Cu, Mn, Ca, Mg, Zn) in a 1:1 molar ratio.

The chelation reaction is virtually instantaneous in most cases.
Calcium and other alkaline earth metals are most effectively
chelated above pH 4.
Na4EDTA chelates most transitionmetals below pH 12.

Someone please explain 1-1 molar ratio

1:1 molar ratio mean the same number of molecules of both compounds. I would find the molecular mass of both which is in grams/mol the computation is trivial.

Anyone who has a scienific background knows that edta is a chelating agent. It is a tetradentate chelating agent so it is quite efficient at keeping metals in solution as you noted. Not the "strongest" which is a bad idea if you are delivering ions to a plant. I just use a nutrient that has chelated metals but you can add it. But I guess it sounds like another ploy by nutrient companies to get more cash out of your pocket. I use Inonic nutrients right now an they are well designed and extremly efficient nutrients. The purpose of having a multi bottle nutrient is to prevent incompatible salts from precipitating in the bottle. Chelate your nutrients before hand and you have no problems.
 

Dkgrower

Active member
Veteran
The 4H2O means it is hydratet from -

Shaggy u are in deep waters - if u dont know what molar - avogado number ect is

What are u trying to do, are u grinding up rock and making salt ferts

Rember that many things Chelate mono and divalent metal ions - aminoacids - molasses - fluvic and humic acids all do the trick.
 

Jbonez

Active member
Veteran
You are saying chelating your nutes prior to mixing them prevents precipitation? Isnt EDTA the worst of the chelates?
 

highonmt

Active member
Veteran
Naw it aint the worst in fact edta ethylenediaminetetraacidic acid

424px-Metal-EDTA.svg.png



is probably the most popular chelating agent in ag ferts, it is used in hydro ferts to keep iron and other metals solubilized. For example the near neutral ph of our solutions Iron III will precip and lead to iron deficiency. As you noted there are other ways to skin the cat and new chelating agents being developed to replace edta which has the liability of slow environmental degredation one is EDDS.
EDDS_racemic.PNG



I would guess fertilizer manufacturers probably use the edta with a stoichiometric quantity of iron or metal salts in a seperate solution and then mix into the nutrient solution. The reason edta is used is it can deliver isolable ions to the plant by effectively solubilizing metals in the ph range we use 7.0-5.0. EDTA is also useful at slowing the uptake of some metals and thereby preventing "burn". Without edta or other chelating agents hydroponics would not be possible as the needed nutrients would either precip or be under or over available at our target ph range causing deficiencies or poisonings.
HM
 

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