Plants in rough shape (x12)

[planthelp]

Ok first of all Hi everybody, thanks to those who take the time to look at my thread.. I'm in a pinch here as my plants are in really rough shape and I'm getting worried.

This all started happening right after I tied the plants up in their pseudo tomato-cages and put them back in the room. I initially suspected that I put them too close to the light after tying them up and they got burned.

Hasn't changed:
I've done one crop in this room, same arrangment of plants, same bulbs, same brand of soil (fresh stuff used), same nutes. (Bulbs are actually higher and plants are farther from light than last crop because I've been trying to baby them since they're in rough shape).

What has changed:
- A couple new fans were added to replace broken one(s)
- The room was cleaned in between crops (saw a handful of spider mites last round - haven't seen them since).
- Sticks I use to tie up the plants were washed with soap and water.
- It's much colder outside now, and as a result inside the room as well (I use an intake fan). The room temp definitely drops lower than it did during the previous crop and the humidity has probably gone down too since it's winter now.

I added a bucket of water in the middle of the room to try and help bring the humidity back up, it sits around 33-38 or so now depending when I check and where I put the gauge.

Pics below. First set of pics is from December 18th which is about a week after this started. Second set is from yesterday showing how much worse it's gotten and the startling lack of development in the last ~3 weeks.

December 18th:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=42098

January 5th:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=42099

Again thanks to those who've read this far, I'd really appreciate any insight you guys could give, would like to hopefully salvage something out of them.



=========================================

SOIL: Unknown, Black 'bag' (cube) at local grow shop.


How long has this problem been going on?
2-3 weeks


What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
Clone

What is the age of your plants?
Germinated on: Began flowering on Dec 1st.

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
10-11 weeks

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
Same mixture

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Flower (week 5)


What brand Nutrient's are you using?
No-Name from local grow shop.

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
Following directions on package, 5ml/1liter.

How often are you feeding?
Every watering, 3-4 days.

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
Immediately.


How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
pH tested every few feedings to make sure it's stable.

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
pH testing kit (eye dropper with green liquid).

How often are you watering?
3-4 days

What size bulb are you using?
2x 1000 watt HPS

How old is your bulbs?
3 Months

What is the distance to the canopy?
~1.5' - 2'

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
Low: 25% High: 40%

What is the canopy temperature?
Untested

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
Day: 70-80 - Night: 60-70

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
No, one blowing on the wall at pot level, one above plants over canopy.

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Water when dry (lift test)

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Unsure, but I have to use pH down so.. hard?

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap?
Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Well water. Lukewarm.

Are you using water from a water softener?
Yes, Water Softener.

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Lots of deadloss pulled off so yes.. none by design though.

 

[Mikron]

If you are on a water softener that might be the problem, I have seen similar leaves when the tap water was on a water softener. If you have a outdoor water supply use it as these are usually not connected. Some people resort to bottled water.

 

[mack 10]

um, i had a look at the pic's. it looks like light burn at first,but i dont think so, Def N prob, probly locked out due to a pH prob, poss caused by the cold./ wrong pH. /well water or overfeeding.
Personally i would get a pH and Ec meter. Flush your pots with the same volume of water as the pot size, ph 6.0/6.3 no nutes.
Your well water could also be related to the prob?any other water source you can use?
Then start feeding again at half strength,ph 6.0 - 6.5
all the older leafs will fall off, but the new bud growth should start growing again and be healthy, you just need to correct the levels of nutrients in the soil,and correct the pH , water temp's(18-20>C) Also keep your room temps in check, if you can. good luck pulling them back.
mack.
Peace out.

 

[Granger2]

Water softeners use Salt NaCl. This is bad. Good luck. -granger

 

[Midnight Tokar]

I actually think the second set of pictures look better than the first set, they still have major problems but the foliage looks greener.

Get off the well water/water softener it has salt in it and it's killing your plants. Flush with plain water from a different source (well water would be fine if it's not connected to the softener), use 3 times the amount as the pots they're in, the last flush use nutes at 1/2 the normal amount.

You are so close to finishing I hope the flush and water change will pull you through til harvest.

 

[willyweed]

yep looks like nutrient burn to me too,i would go with midnight tokar on this one ,also if it were me .i would take those bad looking leaves off the plants,its only gonna make the plants work harder trying to fix those bad leaves,which is imposible to do at this late stage of the grow !also let a bit of light on to the ones that are working properly good luck also review those nutrients or is no name a brand? everything is pointing to the nutrient or amount of in my opinion .good luck willyweed

 

[planthelp]

Thank you guys.

@willy, I did pull most of the dead/dying leaves off, the pictures in the first set were taken 'before'. The nutrients are a no-name brand but I know a couple other people locally that use the same kind with fairly good results (this doesn't mean I didn't mess up on them though).

@Midnight Tokar, the only way I can bypass my softener would be to add in an additional set of pipes before it gets to the softener in between the well and there, which I could do but then the water will be coming up at extremely cold temps.. I guess I could set up a mini-res and just use an aquarium heater or something if that is indeed the cause.

I'm looking at a PH pen online, any specific recommendations? I have previously heard the Bluelab one(s) are good, would that be a safe bet?

Going to try flushing them tomorrow, I'll update again once I've done that with some progress pictures. Big thanks again to everybody who offered help.

 

[MynameStitch]

first off never ever use softened water from a water softner to water your plants heres why:
first sodium is pulled into the plant before anything else, it causes vascular breakdown of the plant inside and water and nutes are misplaced and can cause any problem, the brown spotting your seeing on the yellow leaves is dead plant material that was from a buildup, the yellowing is a lockout. not to mention your in soil of unknown origin, we don't know if there was nutes in there or what brand so we can find out what the proper pH of the soil should be.
Your feeding every watering which is fine, but you need a time to water the plant with just plain water to flush out excess salt buildup in the soil.

You need to first stop using softned water, use tap water flush your plants with 2 gallons of water per 1 gallon size pot, this will get rid of excess but will flush the good stuff too, but you can't get around that. The amount your using should be used per 1 gallon of water not 1 liter, every 3 to 4 days is not good with that dosage, too high and watering every time you feed combination of all is what is the problem. those plants are definatly burned and salt buildup, so flush with tap water v2 gallons per 1 gallon size pot, remember if you want to feed every watering u need to make sure you skip sometimes to flush it out. Stop using the dosage on the bottle unless it's made for cannabis, directions on most nutrients are too strong for cannabis. after flushing wait at least a week or 1/2 before feeding again, let them recover. after the flushing is done you need to collect the run off test the pH and you need to find out what brand of soil so you can make sure your pH is going to be correct, because excess nutes spin off pH problems causing them to go up or down and this is another problem, when pH is off your plant can't absorb nutrients well and it contributes to bigger problems. hopefully you won't stress her out more, because right now it's flowering and you want this time to be no issues because the plant can hermie and pollinate itself from the stress it's under.

 

[Kcar]

I would say water softener and PH

 

[planthelp]

Hi again, thanks Stich.

I'm at home now so I can get some better info on the soil and nutes:

Pictures, with closeups on the nutes:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=42180

The soil is fresh, new, soil, not previously used (i wasn't clear on that).

- It's "Sunshine Mix 4".

- The nutrients are 'Dutch nutrient formula'. (see pictures)

As for the water, I'm outside city limits so it's all on well water. The only way I can see to bypass the softener is to install a second set of taps in between the well and the softener itself, which I CAN do, however then I'll have to heat the water before using it. If this is the only option this is what I will do.

Question about the flushing here, should be done later this evening. I would typically give them a jug and a half each (3 liters -- nearly 1 gallon [15 liter pot]) am I correct in understanding that you are recommending I put in 10 times the normal amount of water? (15 liter pot x 2 = 30 liters?), I typically give them 3 per watering,

Thank you all again, hoping they make it.

 

[Granger2]

Did some quick research. Carbon filters won't remove NaCl. You could install a Reverse Osmosis system to remove the salt. I know it costs, maybe less than running pipe, heating water, etc. Less space than a rez. Good luck. -granger

 

[Mikron]

run the line before the well, use one of those heat wires to keep the line from freezing if its a possibility, then store 30-50 gallons of water at all times in your grow room and that should take care of the warm water issue. if you dig your pipe in the ground it should also insulate it so that it doesn't freeze.

 

[planthelp]

Just for clarification the well is actually built in to the house, it comes up in the basement, at which point there's a Y valve, one goes outside to the exterior of the house for a watering hose etc, and the other goes to the water softener. After the water softener it gets sent to the water heater and then the rest of the house.

In theory I could run a junction near before the Y valve and run a set of taps inside the basement but before the water gets to the softener. This would solve that issue but would create another (water too cold to use for plants).

Thanks again for the input everybody

 

[Kcar]

Why not just go outside and fill some milk jugs or a five gallon bucket?

 

[planthelp]

Why not just go outside and fill some milk jugs or a five gallon bucket?

I've considered just running a hose outside and back in to the basement for when I need to fill, if I had to carry water in and out (and up and down the stairs) I'd be spending hours a day doing that, takes a full size garbage can worth of water (~12 gallons) every 1-2 days or so between the different rooms.. too much work.

I just did the flush now, did about 3x the amount of normal water and the whole floor was covered in water by this point and they were leaking pretty fast, then gave them their normal feeding worth of water, which puts them around 4x the normal water. I moved the lights about 6" - 8" farther away too to try and get them to come back. Fingers crossed.

 

[Granger2]

You used non softened water to flush? -granger