Vert coco setup: 1800w

[BldSwtTrs]

Wow ! Both your set ups are so clean and well executed. Way impressive.

Thanks!

looks like you need a hobbit to crawl in there and water for you. i volunteer.....lol

LOL yea it would be a bitch to hand water butttttttt....

You KNOW I am too lazy to do that shit every damn day. Plus I have too many different systems and watering alone would take hours every day so...

I have auto watering setup like Jack!

Top feed micro sprinklers!

Watering consists of mixing nutes and flipping a switch...

As DHF would say...

Simple... Baby Shit...

 

[Jbonez]

**yawns as he passes BST's rookie rig outa his periph**

You have a pm homie...

 

[Arminius]

Whats your plant count and veg time per donut? This would definitely influence my decision... but...

With 8-12 plants and 2-3 week veg I would do this...

Place your plants in a TIGHT circle directly under the bulb and train them out and then back through the screen. That way your donut size is limited to the size of your screen/canopy.

A 2-3 week veg should give plenty of vertical height so that you can basically put all the puts under the screen/netting/whatever in a circle that is SMALLER than your screen. Then...

Train your plants to grow to the outside of the screen until they are tall enough and then just train them through your scrog...

In all my past donuts I just used garden fencing and then zip tied the ends to create a circle. Simple, sturdy, and cheap. You could hand it from the ceiling or make small stands to hand it from. Whatever you want...

Bad description, but I could easily draw it out on paper and upload it as a pic if needed. Let me know what ya need bro...

I already drew up exactly what you described I think, I want/need it to be modular though. I am visualizing a 36" wide, 36" tall, and 8" deep box. Using 2 x 2 lumber, I would then attach 2 x 3 fencing to the frame. When I can afford more lights I can just drop one more row using dowels, or brackets of some sort...
Veg time is up to my discretion as I have a full veg/mother room. When its up and running I should be able to pick and choose at any given time what plants I want to throw into flower.
Trying to trim up the last of my harvest, so a little scattered right now. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[DHF]

Ok.......Need the particulars on the tables Bro......How many drains underneath....How many plants per table........How many "micro-sprinklers" per table......

How deep are the beds.......How many times fed per day........and.......are those lil sprinkler thingies "pop-ups" or do they just spread a fan of juice 360 degrees when the pump kicks on.......and......

A tutorial on howta setup the sprinklers and beds would be awesome with the rez/pump/feed sytem detailed........I`m just sayin........Enquirin minds wanna know..............

Peace......Freds..............

 

[shapes]

Thanks man.

I have ran vert systems for a long time and never used anything more than a simple (small) floor fan to "push" the head up and out of the system.

I have a ~9" cheap fan pointed up directly under the light stack which pushes all the head up and then out the sides of the racks. The fan is set on low so it creates a heat convection.

Cool air is sucked up from the bottom (head rises so the air will be cooler the closer it is to the floor) and pushes it up the light stack and then out the sides.

If you put your hand up to the rack towards the top you can actually feel warm air being pushed out.

All my temps listed are canopy temps not room temps so...

With 1800 watts and just a floor fan canopy temps are still ~82 degrees only a few inches away from the bulb which is perfect for co2 rooms.

Once again sorry for the long explanation. If that doesn't properly explain it I can draw some pictures and upload them.

That makes sense,thanks for explaining.

Could you give some info on your watering schedule?

Thanks,Shapes.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

I already drew up exactly what you described I think, I want/need it to be modular though. I am visualizing a 36" wide, 36" tall, and 8" deep box. Using 2 x 2 lumber, I would then attach 2 x 3 fencing to the frame. When I can afford more lights I can just drop one more row using dowels, or brackets of some sort...
Veg time is up to my discretion as I have a full veg/mother room. When its up and running I should be able to pick and choose at any given time what plants I want to throw into flower.
Trying to trim up the last of my harvest, so a little scattered right now. Thanks for your feedback!

Dude it would be awesome if you could sketch up a design of what you are thinking. Designing systems is one of my favorite parts of growing so I would LOVE to see what you have in mind even if you don't want any input.

It is kind if tough to imagine exactly what you mean by your description so if you have the time PM me or just upload a sketch to one of our threads. Definitely want to know.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Ok.......Need the particulars on the tables Bro......How many drains underneath....How many plants per table........How many "micro-sprinklers" per table......

How deep are the beds.......How many times fed per day........and.......are those lil sprinkler thingies "pop-ups" or do they just spread a fan of juice 360 degrees when the pump kicks on.......and......

A tutorial on howta setup the sprinklers and beds would be awesome with the rez/pump/feed sytem detailed........I`m just sayin........Enquirin minds wanna know..............

Peace......Freds..............

Have ran 3x6s with 1200w, 4x8 with 1200w, and 4x8 with 2000w. 4x8 with 2000w seems to be the best all around.

So... all tables have two 1/2" flood and drain fittings on them that are left open as drains. I put a 45 gallon tough tote under each table just to collect runoff. They only need to be emptied once every 10 days or so...

Plants per table varies dependent on strain, but...

For 3x6s I have found 40 untopped plants of pretty much any strain works quite well. Jack uses less plants, but he has a special topping and training method that works for him. 40 plants in a 3x6 with 1200w has yielded me nothing less than 2.5lbs and I have got up to 3lb 3 ounces.

For the 4x8s I tried 50 plants with the 1200w because I knew each plant would be getting slightly less light. This worked out well, but quality suffered a bit and I usually get 2 and 3/4 lb from this.

For the 4x8s with 2000w I am using 72 untopped plants which seems to be working out quite well. Given that I am averaging 1GPW on my other horizontal tables I think these 2k watt tables could yield heavy because the plant count/table is slightly higher for the 2k 4x8s even though the plant/sqf is the same as the 3x6s.

Tables are filled with coco about 6"-7" deep so... the 3x6s have 9 cubic feet of coco and use about 4 1/2 bags of cana coco while the 4x8s have about 16 cubic feet and use almost 9 bags. PLENTY of medium...

1HP wayne pump runs from res and I have found that this can power up to about 64 sprinklers at once and give enough power. I have not tried more, but I suspect this might be about the limit as this number will pump about 20 gallons in just a few minutes...

I have an inline filter set up just to catch any sludge to minimize cloggs. There are also filters in the drip manifolds themselves so I have NEVER had a sprinkler clog.

This is a decent picture to show how the pipe is split to run multiple tables at once. The two tables have a union connect in the middle for easy dissassembly so the tables can be moved independently. The tables can also be watered independently of each other as they each have ball valves.

1" pipe is used from the pump to the tables. You will need 1" to 1/2" PVC T's to go from the pump to manifold. I use 6" risers (1/2" diameter) to get the manifolds above the table. Simple 1/4 vinyl tubing is used to connect the manifolds to the sprinklers which are 360 degree sprinklers and can be adjusted to 0-20GPH. These things are fucking awesome and have a can probably cover 1sqf of space each.

Once hooked up the 4x8 tables take about a minute and a half to achieve runoff while the 3x6s take about 2 1/2 minutes due to having half the number of sprinklers and medium.

Now... Jack has a picture tutorial somewhere, but I can probably make one of my own if needed. Seems kinda lame though to steal his idea and make a tutorial of my own though lol... just let me know.

Will cover watering schedules in the next post.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

That makes sense,thanks for explaining.

Could you give some info on your watering schedule?

Thanks,Shapes.

Feeding is SIMPLE.

I use flora duo because its CHEAP and super PH stable. I just follow the feeding chart. I will probably experiment with different nutes at some point, but want to dial in everything else first.

One thing I do that I don't see anybody else do is feed at a low PH. I feed at 5.3-5.5 PH and have NEVER had any issues with this. I am not scientific enough to explain the reasons for doing this, but I talked to one of my science guys for an extended period of time about this and he convinced me. Anyway its been working over multiple harvests.

Anyway...

Feeding schedule is simple...

Veg is watered every 3rd day for a couple waterings until they start to drink more in which case they are watered every other day.

During flower I water every other day until the end of stretch and then once stretch is over I water every day til harvest.

I use MOAB/HH week 6 and 7 then have a 1-2 week flush at half strength nutes depending on strain.

Caps tea is used the entire run.

Reusing the coco is something I am still working on, but I just ordered some pond enzymes on the cheap which I hope will help.

Anyway any more questions let me know.

 

[irishdude5186]

Light penetrates a given radius of a circle so if you fit a square or circle in that area all plants will be getting the same amount of light... so...

All that being said I have switched to squares lately because square systems are easier to design and therefore generally cheaper.

Sorry for the terrible description bro I am not great at explaining things. If that doesn't make sense let me know and I can draw some pictures and upload them...

My understanding of light intensity is its inversely proportional to the distance squared.


Therefore if you have a circle around a bulb, all points on that circle will recieve the same intensity of light, all plants will recieve equal light. I am shit at describing, sorry.

However that is not true with square setups. A is shorter than B and so Plant A will recieve more intense light than Plant B.

Am I missing something here? (probs are)

In my mind, circle is the way to go, unless plants will just crowd eachother out easier in a circular setup, thus stress, thus less yield but thats sortable. Love this and love your coco beds too. I am certainly intrigued which is better in regards to time/yield/money/hassel/hell even law ;P

 

[Arminius]

My understanding of light intensity is its inversely proportional to the distance squared.


Therefore if you have a circle around a bulb, all points on that circle will recieve the same intensity of light, all plants will recieve equal light. I am shit at describing, sorry.
View Image
However that is not true with square setups. A is shorter than B and so Plant A will recieve more intense light than Plant B.
View Image
Am I missing something here? (probs are)

In my mind, circle is the way to go, unless plants will just crowd eachother out easier in a circular setup, thus stress, thus less yield but thats sortable. Love this and love your coco beds too. I am certainly intrigued which is better in regards to time/yield/money/hassel/hell even law ;P

If you reduce the size of the square, and delete the corners, you have a better picture of light coverage.
There is still more intense light at the center of each section, I believe it is negligible in theory at least...

 

[username474]

Another beautiful build brother. I expect nothing less from you at this point.

Are you doing 80 per table still? Also, how long did you veg?

If you could update the beds once in a while it would be appreciated as always.

My c-99, 3x6 tables are looking like they are going to crush 1 gpw. I will pm you some pics
when my 'bst' tables are finished.

 

[irishdude5186]

If you reduce the size of the square, and delete the corners, you have a better picture of light coverage.
There is still more intense light at the center of each section, I believe it is negligible in theory at least...

Could you explain further, I dont think I understand, sorry Arminius. My understanding of it would be if you reduced the size of the square you are decreasing the size of rack space to compensate for the "chokin' corners" ... you would then not use the chokin corners further reducing the plant count? Why not a circle? There are arguments out there against it surely otherwise everyone would be doing it.. or is it just the complexities of building a round vert structure? Thanks for the reply man!

 

[username474]

Another beautiful build brother. I expect nothing less from you at this point.

Are you doing 80 per table still? Also, how long did you veg?

If you could update the beds once in a while it would be appreciated as always.

My c-99, 3x6 tables are looking like they are going to crush 1 gpw. I will pm you some pics
when my 'bst' tables are finished.

Please disregard this post but, I swear the answers were not three post above when I posted it. lol

 

[DHF]

Hey Irishdude......I think what BST and Arm are tryin to get around to is "useable"/proper watts per sq ft for optimum lumen penetration/plant absorption using the bare bulbs .....and of course.....

It`s further to the corner plants in a square compared to a circular/coliseum setup cuz as yas made note of and we all know , light from the bare bulbs travels 360 degrees sideways till the lumens fall off and are therefore useless to the plants well being........and that`s when the corners would be dead and useless...........

Buildin sq wall racks on wheels is waaaay easier than DIY `n circular shelves outta 4 x 8 sheets of plywood that soak up water like a sponge and would need sealed if they were in my rooms......but....Many ways ta skin a mule.......Circles could be framed outta metal studs or even dimensional lumber , but it`s still tedious at best and I`m a well seasoned carpenter and homebuilder........regardless.......

I had angled corners in my sq rooms to separate the 8 corner plants on each level and prevent em from choking each other out and competing for environment......moral to the story ......

If yas got enough watts per sq ft to penetrate all the way past the corner plants where the backs will produce what the fronts closer to the bulbs will......

As long as they`re trained away from each other or the racks moved away from each other to compensate without compromising watts per sq ft........then......

That`s when yas`re on the road to dialage and the path to Nirvana all in 1 fell swoop........Hope that helps ID , and thanks for the info and pics BST.......

Just wanted the folks to see what can be done with a lil thought and attention to detail with vertical or horizontal setups...........Carry on and....

Peace......Freds............

 

[bobblehead]

Could you explain further, I dont think I understand, sorry Arminius. My understanding of it would be if you reduced the size of the square you are decreasing the size of rack space to compensate for the "chokin' corners" ... you would then not use the chokin corners further reducing the plant count? Why not a circle? There are arguments out there against it surely otherwise everyone would be doing it.. or is it just the complexities of building a round vert structure? Thanks for the reply man!

It's the complexity of the design of an octagon or circle vs. a square vs. reward for the extra work/time/money spent. The reward just isn't there.

If a plant is receiving too little light, then you get longer internode spacing because the plant stretches further to get into a more intense light zone. The plants are smart and adapt to their environment. Leaving the corners empty leaves room to train the side plants away from the plants in the middle of the racks...

Feed needs to be simple simple simple! The more complex the design, the harder it is to feed your plants. I like these micro sprinklers, I've been testing one since I saw it in Jack's thread. I haven't tested them on multiple levels yet though and measured the amount of solution delivered. My previous experience with drippers was that even with the pressure regulation, the flow was different on each level. The cool thing about the micro sprinkler, is that it has a little lever to control flow to each tube... So minor adjustment can be made.

Anyway... Don't wanna hijack BST's thread... Keep killin it dude.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

Yo BldSwtRs, are those drip manifolds something I would get from any lawn irrigation website? I Googled "micro sprinklers" and found some similar products.

can you give us model/names of the set you use?

thanks,

rbdf

 

[BldSwtTrs]

My understanding of light intensity is its inversely proportional to the distance squared.


Therefore if you have a circle around a bulb, all points on that circle will recieve the same intensity of light, all plants will recieve equal light. I am shit at describing, sorry.
View Image
However that is not true with square setups. A is shorter than B and so Plant A will recieve more intense light than Plant B.
View Image
Am I missing something here? (probs are)

In my mind, circle is the way to go, unless plants will just crowd eachother out easier in a circular setup, thus stress, thus less yield but thats sortable. Love this and love your coco beds too. I am certainly intrigued which is better in regards to time/yield/money/hassel/hell even law ;P

Yo bro I remember the squares not making sense in my head for the longest time too. Check this out...

So... there might be a small difference (a few inches) between the corners and middle, but like everybody else is saying it is negligible.

From my experience running lots of each i would have to say I prefer squares because they are easier to design, build, and operate.

Just my .02 cents though.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Another beautiful build brother. I expect nothing less from you at this point.

Are you doing 80 per table still? Also, how long did you veg?

If you could update the beds once in a while it would be appreciated as always.

My c-99, 3x6 tables are looking like they are going to crush 1 gpw. I will pm you some pics
when my 'bst' tables are finished.

Thanks a lot bro.

How are your tables coming man? VERY curious to see somebody else running a similar setup.

You running all c99 in the tables or other strains? Ill bet the c99 is killing it.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Yo BldSwtRs, are those drip manifolds something I would get from any lawn irrigation website? I Googled "micro sprinklers" and found some similar products.

can you give us model/names of the set you use?

thanks,

rbdf

Yo bro PM me for details.

Anybody that wants the specific model numbers I use just PM me because I don't want to say where I got them on the public forum. Thanks.

 

[username474]

I have 6, c-99 tables and 2, old time bubba kush going. This will be
the first time flowering out the bubba though. I know this Cindy pheno
like the back of my hand, she has never impressed me more, this early.
I will take some pics after my week 5 strip down and at finish. I am loving
the tables. I will be following the 4x8's closely, if you hit 5, I will definitely be
going that route on my next room. Keep on killing it!