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Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?
- Thread starter LAMBS-BREAD
- Start date
first of all....basement growing will be dead. with legalization there will be quality control standards and your everyday basement grower will not adhere to these...people can still grow in their basements and sell on the black market or smoke their own bud but it will not be sellable LEGALLY..
look at CO....in order to sell weed legally, you need to pay 100k in licensing and other random shit like paying 20k to fund the enforcement division. there wil be strict rules and codes to follow for every little thing....your electrical must be done professionally, guidelines for what pesticides, etc to use, product testing and quality control to ensure a safe product, just like what budweiser and all the other agricultural companies do. compliance checks by LEO and code enforcement, etc in this is for indoor growing in big mega warehouses..
for outdoor growing look at the wine industry.....its basically a ton of mom and pop vineyards who simply grow grapes, than sell their grapes bulk to processors like Coppola who turn it into wine. some people who have lots of $$ to invest can become their own farm/distribution network, but trust me it will cost ALOT to finance an operation like this. just to buy a 30 acre vineyard in some places can run 500k, to buy 50 acres of farm land AND have a building for processing, wine tasting, etc will easily cost millions...
your standard green rusher whos growing for profit but blowing their money on stupid shit, and not saving it correctly, and whos not aware of where the market is going, will be shit out of luck if they want to make a good living. most growers i know are like this...theyll have a 50 plant outdoor farm but literally are down to their last 10k for soil and rent by the start of next season, they waste their money on luxury spending or hide a bunch of cash somewhere that just sits and sits, and wont be able to fund a business unless they wash it..
the people who will get rich are those with connections to venture capitalists to fund an actual brand name of pot that will be marketing state or nationwide just like breweries, wines, oranges, you name it.....moonshine has the right idea, his warehouse in colorado is setting up a huge operation that is adhering to all local codes, they have a brand name "rare dankness" that is ready to push onto the masses and be available at every dispensary in CO...thats the right way to do it. and hes not doing it himself they have serious investors who have millions of dollars stacked..
and the margins will be much much lower....
good luck to most...seriously. if you have rich relatives or friends hit them up and see if you can lock down 500k in financing...otherwise have fun growing in your closet for personal smoke.
but hey you can always grow some herb in your basement or backyard, and ship it to china or japan where herb is 10k a pound..
look at CO....in order to sell weed legally, you need to pay 100k in licensing and other random shit like paying 20k to fund the enforcement division. there wil be strict rules and codes to follow for every little thing....your electrical must be done professionally, guidelines for what pesticides, etc to use, product testing and quality control to ensure a safe product, just like what budweiser and all the other agricultural companies do. compliance checks by LEO and code enforcement, etc in this is for indoor growing in big mega warehouses..
for outdoor growing look at the wine industry.....its basically a ton of mom and pop vineyards who simply grow grapes, than sell their grapes bulk to processors like Coppola who turn it into wine. some people who have lots of $$ to invest can become their own farm/distribution network, but trust me it will cost ALOT to finance an operation like this. just to buy a 30 acre vineyard in some places can run 500k, to buy 50 acres of farm land AND have a building for processing, wine tasting, etc will easily cost millions...
your standard green rusher whos growing for profit but blowing their money on stupid shit, and not saving it correctly, and whos not aware of where the market is going, will be shit out of luck if they want to make a good living. most growers i know are like this...theyll have a 50 plant outdoor farm but literally are down to their last 10k for soil and rent by the start of next season, they waste their money on luxury spending or hide a bunch of cash somewhere that just sits and sits, and wont be able to fund a business unless they wash it..
the people who will get rich are those with connections to venture capitalists to fund an actual brand name of pot that will be marketing state or nationwide just like breweries, wines, oranges, you name it.....moonshine has the right idea, his warehouse in colorado is setting up a huge operation that is adhering to all local codes, they have a brand name "rare dankness" that is ready to push onto the masses and be available at every dispensary in CO...thats the right way to do it. and hes not doing it himself they have serious investors who have millions of dollars stacked..
and the margins will be much much lower....
good luck to most...seriously. if you have rich relatives or friends hit them up and see if you can lock down 500k in financing...otherwise have fun growing in your closet for personal smoke.
but hey you can always grow some herb in your basement or backyard, and ship it to china or japan where herb is 10k a pound..
Those fees and expenses in Co are for the medical cannabis grows and dispensaries.
A-64 changes it from strictly medicinal, to legal in the same way as it's legal to brew your own beer/ferment your own wine.
Watch the SamAdams adds, that microbrew started in a guy's kitchen! Most microbrews started that way,.... I don't see how it'll be much different for MJ. I start in my basement, get the licensing, and expand from there.....
All that being said, it's currently only legal for personal use, the powers that be haven't yet hammered out the wording and fees for licensing sale to the adult public.
A-64 changes it from strictly medicinal, to legal in the same way as it's legal to brew your own beer/ferment your own wine.
Watch the SamAdams adds, that microbrew started in a guy's kitchen! Most microbrews started that way,.... I don't see how it'll be much different for MJ. I start in my basement, get the licensing, and expand from there.....
All that being said, it's currently only legal for personal use, the powers that be haven't yet hammered out the wording and fees for licensing sale to the adult public.
The story of marijuana legalization is the story of the enemy within. We spend all of this time and stomach bile castigating my fellow conservatives (who are really your allies) for not making weed legal when a majority of people on this site don't even support unconditional legalization.
Amazing...
Amazing...
I think there is a distinction here between those cash croppers who look at legalization as a threat to their livelihood and those who aren't cash croppers who just want to grow and smoke their connoisseur ganja.
Only a cash cropper would say something like, "basement growing will be dead." No, it won't be dead. It won't be profitable for most cash croppers, because margins will be squeezed so hard that profits will dry up.
But I can assure you: MY basement growing will not be dead. Neither will that of millions of other small personal connoisseur growers. Indeed, their numbers will multiply when the threat of being arrested disappears. And our basement grows will get better, because we'll be able to grow how we WANT to, rather than how we HAVE to in order to avoid detection.
I have no sympathy for cash croppers who would rather see their brothers and sisters go to jail than lose the cash cropper's artificial "war on drugs" subsidy.
Only a cash cropper would say something like, "basement growing will be dead." No, it won't be dead. It won't be profitable for most cash croppers, because margins will be squeezed so hard that profits will dry up.
But I can assure you: MY basement growing will not be dead. Neither will that of millions of other small personal connoisseur growers. Indeed, their numbers will multiply when the threat of being arrested disappears. And our basement grows will get better, because we'll be able to grow how we WANT to, rather than how we HAVE to in order to avoid detection.
I have no sympathy for cash croppers who would rather see their brothers and sisters go to jail than lose the cash cropper's artificial "war on drugs" subsidy.
I was hoping you would realize that distinction and I'd like you to recognize I'm speaking from the second group. I also pointed out that basement growing would continue... less profitably, but still.
Ahh... see here lies the issue: the threat of being arrested MAY not be gone.
I feel like you haven't read my posts and would urge you to.
Nobody would grow inside unless they live in Siberia if they could help it.
I'm trying to preserve whatever shred of growing how we NEED to at this point.
What exactly have we won if everything we are doing is still just as illegal and Monsanto is crapping out shit beans for crazy profit?
Subsidies won't cease to exist as long as it's legal either, but I digress.
I have no sympathy for those suffering a horrible environment for their growing and smoking after it's legal if they championed just any old bill with the LEGAL stamp on it..
Please realize these points and respond even if it's in a PM.
RM - aquagrower
Active member
I think that lots of folks here can't see the forest through the trees. We (IC'ers) ain't exactly what you would call "average" smokers.
Around here (non-med state) most folks I know ain't smoking top end herb as it is. I'd have to say that 80-90% of all the smokers that I know are smoking mexi brick weed on a regular basis. That tells me that if big business cut into anybobys profits it wouldn't be the basement growers, it would be the cartels. That's where the "budweiser" is coming from now.
The biggest positive I see coming from full blown legal is the massive increase in NEW smokers. Much as we may not realize it, there are a whole hell of a lot of people that don't smoke now just because of the laws. Change those laws and you blow open a huge new market.
Around here (non-med state) most folks I know ain't smoking top end herb as it is. I'd have to say that 80-90% of all the smokers that I know are smoking mexi brick weed on a regular basis. That tells me that if big business cut into anybobys profits it wouldn't be the basement growers, it would be the cartels. That's where the "budweiser" is coming from now.
The biggest positive I see coming from full blown legal is the massive increase in NEW smokers. Much as we may not realize it, there are a whole hell of a lot of people that don't smoke now just because of the laws. Change those laws and you blow open a huge new market.
I don't think people see trees, they just look at the wood.
If you've been on here for 7 years and most folks you know aren't smoking primo I might have to wonder why.
The cartels already have Budweiser. We are about due for Bud Light...
If the best thing is new smokers, let's give them a running start and some real beans!
If the market blows up with Monsanto Gold as the only legal herb I (personally) will feel as though we've already lost.
In the meantime, I would urge you to get your crew sprouting something better than mexi schwag.
If you've been on here for 7 years and most folks you know aren't smoking primo I might have to wonder why.
The cartels already have Budweiser. We are about due for Bud Light...
If the best thing is new smokers, let's give them a running start and some real beans!
If the market blows up with Monsanto Gold as the only legal herb I (personally) will feel as though we've already lost.
In the meantime, I would urge you to get your crew sprouting something better than mexi schwag.
indoor grows exist only to avoid detection. if and when legal, outdoor will be the norm, with only a few growing under lamps.
also, the people investing millions in warehouses will loose all investment in such if it becomes legal. importing outdoor from great climate will be way cheaper than running a warehouse.
warehouse/indoor only makes sense in an illegal or quasi legal scenario.
Z
Z-ro
It will NOT be legalized federally, ever... yes on the state level and you could strike it big and get rich out in the open(like moonshine) or you could just do your thing quietly on the black market an make the same if not more, its all going to depend on how big your ego is...either way if youre on that level and you get busted its not gonna be the local PD its gonna be dea and you will be facing a whole lot more 'money crimes' charges than if you had just stayed underground.
Prop I think it was your good buddy krunch that said something like 'you only get that big to make as much as you can as quickly as you can and then GET OUT'
Prop I think it was your good buddy krunch that said something like 'you only get that big to make as much as you can as quickly as you can and then GET OUT'
RM - aquagrower
Active member
There's a handfull of folks I know that smoke my weed, they just don't know it comes from me. And I ain't sprouting any bag seed 'round here.
I think that even if "Monsanto Gold" is the norm and available like a pack of cigarettes at the corner store, there will always be a demand for high end home grown. Ever been in a garage with a few good 'ol boys, and someone busts out a jar of moonshine? Everybody smiles and the jar gets passed around. Just don't see that with a bottle of vodka.
Yeah I do see people enjoying vodka... much more often than shine actually.
You also see moonshiners doing real time.
I don't think you're seeing the reality of nothing changing for us.
You also see moonshiners doing real time.
I don't think you're seeing the reality of nothing changing for us.
RM - aquagrower
Active member
I don't agree. Now if the value of outdoor were to drop to $8 a bushel (cost of feed corn) then yea. Even in a lagal market, i really don't see the cost dropping all that much. Only reason the powers that be would allow it to be legal is 'cause they can make more than they can now.
Indoor offers security. Just cause the laws change and we may no longer have to worry 'bout cops, we still gotta worry 'bout robbers.
RM - aquagrower
Active member
Yeah so legalizing it took all the fun out of it?
Now you sound like a cash cropper
Now you sound like a cash cropper
michaelswines
Member
For many years, I have pondered what this cannabis industry will look like in the near future. For me, it has all boiled down to one thing; will the patient/consumer demand the highest quality flower?
It is absolutely imperative that consumers demand the highest-grade flowers available with today’s technology and resources. What I am mean by that is, judging the flower from every single aspect: bud structure density, multi-colored toned pistils, intense smell of strain type, glaring trichomes, aggressive taste, intense affect, correct burning colorations, smoothness from correct cultivation practices, and literally high affect from THC, that is the expansion of the lungs ☺
In past two decades, we have seen consumption of cannabis at an all time high. In northern California during the 90’s, our highest-grade cannabis was/is indoor, followed by BC bud, California outdoor, and lastly Mexican Swag. Remind you, none of these products had names, and price was based purely on aesthetics. Today of course, all the hype in California is its indoor strains mostly from the OG lineage (Too be fair, outdoor consumption is at an all time high as well, however, from an objective stand point, outdoor THC will never compare to indoor given all constraints equal, and I mean this by the biggest respect to all growers, just calling it for what it is).
We have seen prices go up or stabilize each time a new advancement was made in the cultivation aspect until the fall of 2009. Unfortunately, in 2009, we were all in a deep recession, and many folks decided to leave their trades, i.e., carpenters, electricians, plumbers, and many other walks of life decided to enter the cannabis industry to make a few extra dollars to get by. In addition, we had a president who came out and stated that he would not target individuals who followed the states legal medical code. Thus we saw additional out of state investment money enter California, but more importantly Colorado.
Colorado was unique at the time because it was still considered virgin ground, and large profits could be had to any team or ‘corporation’ who was intelligent enough to work in the frame work of their laws. Colorado was also different because its medical amendment was literally written in their state constitution. Lastly, and maybe the most important, Colorado became the first state, and still is the only state that makes medical cannabis a ‘for profit’ business. Thus we saw a tremendous amount of out of state investing. When I first visited the med scene in Colorado in July 2009, I was floored to see what these dispensaries were selling as ‘medicine’. Many organizations were charging top dollar for semi-dry, moldy, PM ridden ‘medicine’. However, there was not much competition, and education was bleak at best, but in a matter of 6 months when all of state money arrived, all of those vendor offenders were out of business due to competition and the spread of newly gained knowledge.
I believe the state of Colorado is the ultimate case study for what the near future looks like for other states that are participating or is about to participate in the legal scene. From a consumer standpoint, today has never been a better time for good product at extremely fair prices. (Notice I did not say superior product, none of the big players seem to have figure out consistency of world-class product just yet, brands like River Rock, Garden of the Gods, The Clinic, VIP, Broadway Wellness, and CAM come to mind.)
The combination of the recession, a supposedly new lenient president, the continuation of the powerhouse production state of California, and newly minted juggernaut production state of Colorado have all led to lower prices for consumers nationwide. We all know that these medical states ship to non-legal states to secure higher prices, which ultimately lowers their prices. This downward pressure will continue for many years to come, which will slowly erode all profit margins for basement growers or mom and pop setups.
The time is nearly at the end for small time for profit growers to exist. Especially for med state growers, wholesale pricing is down 30% in past 6 years, and can be a significant challenge in some cases to unload product even at a discounted price (Blue Dream, Green Crack come to mind). Simultaneously, rent prices, energy prices, nutrient prices, and equipment prices are at an all time high, and will continue to go up with inflation (no to mention cost of living continues to go up proportionally).
However, with the recent passages of recreational use in WA and CO, these are the initial building blocks of an industry that is about to become into its own. I am so sick and tired of hearing about Big AG/Tobacco/Pharmaceutical coming in and taking over our industry. At the end of the day, it is our decision making as a group on weather we give over our industry on a silver platter to an outside industry or continue the significant success that we have experience in the past two decades.
I guess my only advice is the same for any mature industry, always strive to be the best quality oriented business, give the best customer service, constantly renovate, continue education, watch the overhead cost, and be realistic with profit margin. But to continue the mind set that everyone can be a ‘mirco brewer’ of cannabis is pure nonsense. Rather, taking an organic business plan path might be best suited, in other words, stick to your core competences and follow that path. Let me clue a lot of people on a little secret about the small winery’s and mirco brewers, many of them don’t make a penny.
It is absolutely imperative that consumers demand the highest-grade flowers available with today’s technology and resources. What I am mean by that is, judging the flower from every single aspect: bud structure density, multi-colored toned pistils, intense smell of strain type, glaring trichomes, aggressive taste, intense affect, correct burning colorations, smoothness from correct cultivation practices, and literally high affect from THC, that is the expansion of the lungs ☺
In past two decades, we have seen consumption of cannabis at an all time high. In northern California during the 90’s, our highest-grade cannabis was/is indoor, followed by BC bud, California outdoor, and lastly Mexican Swag. Remind you, none of these products had names, and price was based purely on aesthetics. Today of course, all the hype in California is its indoor strains mostly from the OG lineage (Too be fair, outdoor consumption is at an all time high as well, however, from an objective stand point, outdoor THC will never compare to indoor given all constraints equal, and I mean this by the biggest respect to all growers, just calling it for what it is).
We have seen prices go up or stabilize each time a new advancement was made in the cultivation aspect until the fall of 2009. Unfortunately, in 2009, we were all in a deep recession, and many folks decided to leave their trades, i.e., carpenters, electricians, plumbers, and many other walks of life decided to enter the cannabis industry to make a few extra dollars to get by. In addition, we had a president who came out and stated that he would not target individuals who followed the states legal medical code. Thus we saw additional out of state investment money enter California, but more importantly Colorado.
Colorado was unique at the time because it was still considered virgin ground, and large profits could be had to any team or ‘corporation’ who was intelligent enough to work in the frame work of their laws. Colorado was also different because its medical amendment was literally written in their state constitution. Lastly, and maybe the most important, Colorado became the first state, and still is the only state that makes medical cannabis a ‘for profit’ business. Thus we saw a tremendous amount of out of state investing. When I first visited the med scene in Colorado in July 2009, I was floored to see what these dispensaries were selling as ‘medicine’. Many organizations were charging top dollar for semi-dry, moldy, PM ridden ‘medicine’. However, there was not much competition, and education was bleak at best, but in a matter of 6 months when all of state money arrived, all of those vendor offenders were out of business due to competition and the spread of newly gained knowledge.
I believe the state of Colorado is the ultimate case study for what the near future looks like for other states that are participating or is about to participate in the legal scene. From a consumer standpoint, today has never been a better time for good product at extremely fair prices. (Notice I did not say superior product, none of the big players seem to have figure out consistency of world-class product just yet, brands like River Rock, Garden of the Gods, The Clinic, VIP, Broadway Wellness, and CAM come to mind.)
The combination of the recession, a supposedly new lenient president, the continuation of the powerhouse production state of California, and newly minted juggernaut production state of Colorado have all led to lower prices for consumers nationwide. We all know that these medical states ship to non-legal states to secure higher prices, which ultimately lowers their prices. This downward pressure will continue for many years to come, which will slowly erode all profit margins for basement growers or mom and pop setups.
The time is nearly at the end for small time for profit growers to exist. Especially for med state growers, wholesale pricing is down 30% in past 6 years, and can be a significant challenge in some cases to unload product even at a discounted price (Blue Dream, Green Crack come to mind). Simultaneously, rent prices, energy prices, nutrient prices, and equipment prices are at an all time high, and will continue to go up with inflation (no to mention cost of living continues to go up proportionally).
However, with the recent passages of recreational use in WA and CO, these are the initial building blocks of an industry that is about to become into its own. I am so sick and tired of hearing about Big AG/Tobacco/Pharmaceutical coming in and taking over our industry. At the end of the day, it is our decision making as a group on weather we give over our industry on a silver platter to an outside industry or continue the significant success that we have experience in the past two decades.
I guess my only advice is the same for any mature industry, always strive to be the best quality oriented business, give the best customer service, constantly renovate, continue education, watch the overhead cost, and be realistic with profit margin. But to continue the mind set that everyone can be a ‘mirco brewer’ of cannabis is pure nonsense. Rather, taking an organic business plan path might be best suited, in other words, stick to your core competences and follow that path. Let me clue a lot of people on a little secret about the small winery’s and mirco brewers, many of them don’t make a penny.
just because the local supermarket has nice hydroponic tomatoes don't mean I am going to stop growing enough organic ones in my garden that i know for damn sure taste,smell,and look better than anything you can get at a supermarket. I still love growing maters and they are legal. I guess it really has to do with your personal outlook on legalization. Not a cash cropper by any means but If I loose a few bucks a year for the fact I can grow with out fear of loss of freedom than so be it. But for you guys out there that are so selfish and only look at it as how can it help me then I guess your not looking at the whole picture then.
