Personal record for yield!!!!!!

[Hashmasta-Kut]

that seems crazy to me. once you dab it and it melts to vapor, its all the same.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Also why I said from my understanding meaning i'm not completely sure, but from what heard from shatterbros and have read studying this, shatter is an amorphous solid which is a non crystalline solid, budder/wax is crystallized hash oil that is worse for our lungs because it is harder to expectorate out and to absorb so it builds up quickly leading to lung problems with daily dabbing. The crystallized hash oil can be broken by heat and alcohols back into an amorphous solid, but regardless if its a raw bho shatter or wax both make me out of breath, wax just being the worst. Like you said if its turned into vapor it should be back to an amorphous solid because the crystalline state can be broken by heat. I believe it's because the crystalline state forms back in the lungs, not sure.
Anyone else want to comment on that with some chemistry knowledge?

I'm not a 100% on that however I do agree. With what my body tells me when I dab raw bho wax and budder I feel out of breath for ever. When I dab raw bho shatter it goes away after a shorter amount of time. When I dab winterized absolutes I don't feel out of breath at all like the raw bho's. This was the point I was making. I feel like I'm suffacating when I dab wax/budders.

I feel it would be a healthier choice based on my personal experience to consume raw bho shatter/sap rather than wax/budder. With a winterized absolute shatter being the best for daily consumption.

If you like what you got and enjoy how it makes you feel great, then thats all that matters.

Just adding to the topic on a positive manner no hate!

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

sorry, no hate, i call everyone crazy

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Some more information provided by a unknown source relating to the topic of shatter and wax, I found it floating around fb and other forums. Tell me what ya'll think!

Sacred Seed Pharms:
I've been having a lot of discussions about different purging techniques and consistencies. A big thanks to Mason Case for passing this info along: This is a wax vs buddder vs shatter talk that is very informational!
For those of you that think shatter, budder, wax is strain dependent and not process, here's a little insight into organic chemistry, a science you are all implementing without realizing it. The following is from a previous conversation from another brilliant mind in another group, who I will not credit due to anonymity...

The difference between budders, shatters and Waxes
The short answer is wax and water. The reason "budder" is what it is is due to the waxy components of cannabis being pulled by the non-polar hydrocarbon. When the solvent is blown into water or whipped while still losing butane it will complex with water and form wax hydrates, that is water complexed chemically with the wax to make the opaque matrix that contains the actual resin. This matrix can be broken by dry alcohols or heat. The described matrix also binds with hydrogen bonding to the solvents used. This is a persistent stable bond unless broken by chemical or physical means.
The act of "whipping" is used to incorporate materials into a matrix and this is exactly what "budder" is, a stabiized matrix of waxes, resins, water and solvent.
And also the act of whipping even material not purged into water will cause water to precipitate from the static humidity in the air as it is cooling as it evaporates causing condensation in the product. Indeed the only reason "budder" is opaque is the complexed water and consequently solvent. The waxes remain clear in the abscence of water creating the product called "shatter" In the abscence of water to complex with the waxes the product called shatter can be kept loose longer and exposed to vacuum more effectively to remove solvents however NO single pull extracts are going to be solvent free due to the nature of the waxes and resin themselves despite extreme vacuum or even heat as the solvents are chemically tied to the product with hydrogen bonds.
Low heat on a complexed extract gives a dry easily handled product that contains a high terpene content along with a high contaminant load. High heat and high vac produce a low terp low solvent product still full of wax.
Although not as flavorful as the simple gums( budder and shatter) the only way to be sure you have cleaned out the primary solvent is to dewax, charcoal and heat purge at near the boiling point of the wash solvent under vac to make what is erroneously called an "absolute" this is actually relatively pure cannabinoidal resin when taken to a stiff almost glassy state. Left loose it still contains a trace of the wash solvent.

 

[montroller]

And also the act of whipping even material not purged into water will cause water to precipitate from the static humidity in the air as it is cooling as it evaporates causing condensation in the product. Indeed the only reason "budder" is opaque is the complexed water and consequently solvent

Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't that condensed moisture show up in a lab test? I have seen lab results from whipped BHO with 0% moisture in it.

Just one example:
http://www.sclabs.com/sample-details.html?task=sample&sample=121220U019

Also almost any shatter can be whipped under a dehydrator to form a budder/wax so I don't think solvent is the only thing to blame.

The way I see it is that moisture, solvent OR air can cause the matrix to form. By purging well and meticulously monitoring climate you can control the matrix formation in the safest purest way possible by just adding air.

Also thank you for having a respectful conversation on this. It is very rare on the boards now a days.

 

[Juicepuddle]

Also almost any shatter can be whipped under a dehydrator to form a budder/wax so I don't think solvent is the only thing to blame.

Though this may be correct, the amount of people making budder in a harmful way is much higher then those whipping nicely purged shatter into budder for god knows why, so yeah, its true but doesn't matter.

 

[grow nerd]

I believe I was the only one that referred to absolutes, could you please point out these claims and confusion you speak of?

You're the only one who mentioned it by name (and it seems to me you have a greater understanding of this stuff than I...), but I was really referring to people who mistake their under-purged shatter as the same thing as when others are talking about "good shatter" (absolute), not realizing that their under-purged shatter is day & night compared to an absolute. Similar physical appearance and texture to the untrained eye.

 

[montroller]

Though this may be correct, the amount of people making budder in a harmful way is much higher then those whipping nicely purged shatter into budder for god knows why, so yeah, its true but doesn't matter.

I think it does matter because as the dispensaries continue to demand wax/budder the vendors will continue to provide it in that consistency. The amount of misinformation online about how to make wax/budder is ridiculous even when compared to the amount of misinfo on BHO in general. By just telling people all budder is poison it doesn't help those who are going to make that consistency anyways learn how to make theirs as clean as possible.

 

[Juicepuddle]

I think it does matter because as the dispensaries continue to demand wax/budder the vendors will continue to provide it in that consistency. The amount of misinformation online about how to make wax/budder is ridiculous even when compared to the amount of misinfo on BHO in general. By just telling people all budder is poison it doesn't help those who are going to make that consistency anyways learn how to make theirs as clean as possible.

You also have to take into account those who know the info and STILL dont care and blast for weight and convenience, its very hard if not impossible to tell the difference between purged oil whipped after and unpurged crap poison budder(Unless you smoke it ofcourse)

 

[montroller]

That is true and dispensaries need to do a better job at quality checking all of their product. Some places do lighter tests or dab tests but the majority don't. Also shatter can hide mistakes too, I have a batch of skywalker OG that is clear as a window but it still won't pass a lighter test so I know it has more purging to go.

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

Too bad hammalamma is clueless.

bwahahahahaahahahahaahahahahaahahahahaahahahahaha

yea that dudes a fucking nac

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

Again, your 53% is a lie haha, you know your anon on here right?


Take your own advice. I have said multiple times, KEEP YOUR POISON BUDDER, I do not mind.

Just because you say wax is not poison does not make it science.

You asked me if budder has air in it, how is it poison, do the research, I am done teaching you. And FYI air stuck in your budder is degrading it super fast, not to mention will lead to many undesirable things.
View Image

I am a connoisseur and even this oil is not to my liking, not clean enough, see the lines?

I can turn ANY budder / wax into this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why do you think that is possible? Because people spray for weight and not quality.

ps, those white looking milky veins in your clear "sap"...
THATS BUTANE DUMBFUCK

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

^^^ Be patient and whip after it is completely purged shatter. It will be much smoother and you will only get flavor on the exhale instead of a slight scratch.



I wonder what other undesirable things air is doing besides degrading quicker? I haven't come across anything that points towards air turning a concentrate to poison. But I guess it is possible there is something going on that I don't understand, maybe you could explain it a little better or link to something.

^^THIS

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

I am not sure I understand how crystallizing the oil will make it harder to cough out?

I see a lot of sap/shatter advocates who use the wax to sap tech. By doing this are they converting it back to an amorphous solid? If so wouldn't this happen when the concentrate melts on a nail?

Also I tried a quick google search, albeit very quick, about crystallized oils coating your lungs and being more difficult to cough up then an amorphous solid, but couldn't find anything. Do you have a link that might explain it better?

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE FUCKING PROPAGANDA BY SOMEONE THAT SELLS SHATTER

i like both and make both and give both away...but i wouldnt bash one or the other...
the bottom line is any blanket statement about anything is faulty at best and totally baseless regurgitated drivel at worst...
so people like shitpuddle kindly take your bullshit...hamhocks you can join him, and go hand out at joke shitty i mean joke city i mean toke city....
thats where all the shatter set kick it...
and theyre kanadian..youll be pumped

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

I think it does matter because as the dispensaries continue to demand wax/budder the vendors will continue to provide it in that consistency. The amount of misinformation online about how to make wax/budder is ridiculous even when compared to the amount of misinfo on BHO in general. By just telling people all budder is poison it doesn't help those who are going to make that consistency anyways learn how to make theirs as clean as possible.

yes....but your talking to a fucking brick man...its cool..some people just wont get it..they will only base what they repeat on something someone else said or they read somewhere..

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

That is true and dispensaries need to do a better job at quality checking all of their product. Some places do lighter tests or dab tests but the majority don't. Also shatter can hide mistakes too, I have a batch of skywalker OG that is clear as a window but it still won't pass a lighter test so I know it has more purging to go.

mmmmm yea the "lighter" test im gonna go ahead and say aint all that...first off depending on what temp you purge at there CERTAINLY could be volatile terps left in ur oil...VOLATILE..i mean if it like SPARKS with a ligther then yea thats bad, but ive seen many people take a torch to a dab and be like SEEEEE MAN it catches fire!!! yea well if u blast air n gas n flame at oil its gonna ignite n little blobs of flaming oil r gonna fly all over...
so again..if your gonna use the "lighter" test you need to know what your actually looking for and have a proper way to test that...
taste is the best way really...
my cent

 

[Juicepuddle]

6 posts in a row, mad?

 

[medmaker420]

6 posts in a row, mad?

yup., all that is needed is to click the multi quote image which is where the "quote" is but further right. this obviously isn't directed at you though lol

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

YES, TOTALLY MAD THAT RETARDS COME ON HERE N SPREAD MISINFO REGARDING THE WAY I FEED MY FAMILY....YES FUCKING MAD YOU FUCKING DOLT...

n no i just prefer dealing with each post seperate vs writing a novel....bro you couldnt get me mad if ur life depended on it..garens ball barens

 

[Juicepuddle]

YES, TOTALLY MAD THAT RETARDS COME ON HERE N SPREAD MISINFO REGARDING THE WAY I FEED MY FAMILY....

Dont make poisonous badly purged extracts to "feed your family"

People like you make me fucking sick, I bet you would run moldy bud just to salvage the material and make a buck.