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Proposed new felony. Any objections?
- Thread starter danut
- Start date
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SeaMaiden
I'll vote in favor and find in favor if on a jury of my peers. What about enhancements if violence is used?
There are existing laws to deal with this. Its unnecessary, and if they take virtually anything they will be likely charged with felony anyway.
Its sickening watching people who " hate the system" run straight to the authorities and start proposing incarcerating people as soon as they have something to lose.
Shame on you.
Its sickening watching people who " hate the system" run straight to the authorities and start proposing incarcerating people as soon as they have something to lose.
Shame on you.
There are already breaking & entering, assault, and theft laws. just because your butt hurt, doesnt mean you need to run to mommy and daddy congress and cry. The gas station owner that gets robbed doesnt ask for special laws, what makes any other business different? There is even specific home invasion laws in some places. I like you Danut but rethink that law bro.
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SeaMaiden
I can pull up examples of where even murdering a pot grower doesn't net the same sentence for the perpetrators as would have occurred had it been anyone else. First example is a group of gang kids who murdered an older man who was growing almost 800 plants. They took a plea deal and will be getting out of prison in about 20 years. For MURDER. In the last handful of years we, collectively, know of other medical growers who've been the victims of home invasions, who were then investigated and in some instances prosecuted by the very system that should have helped them.
Given the local reactions to the people that were just sentenced for murder, I'm beginning to view this as a hate crime. How many other growers feel they cannot go to law enforcement to gain justice through these laws that are already on the books because of how we're treated and viewed?
So now we even have pot growers who are advocates for crime against other growers.
Fucking awesomejuice.
Given the local reactions to the people that were just sentenced for murder, I'm beginning to view this as a hate crime. How many other growers feel they cannot go to law enforcement to gain justice through these laws that are already on the books because of how we're treated and viewed?
So now we even have pot growers who are advocates for crime against other growers.
Fucking awesomejuice.
M
MrSterling
Devil's Advocate here, not an advocate for his idea, just saying: We have laws on the book punishing theft more heavily depending on the severity of the crime and where you do it. You'll get more time robbing a pharmacy of medical goods specifically comes to mind. You don't just get charged with robbery if you try to knock over a bank, or a money truck, or heaven forbid you're dumb enough to hit a building with state or federal employees. The gas station owner doesn't ask for special laws, but many many businesses *get* special laws in regard to theft. Certain places are higher targets it could be argued they need a higher penalty to deter those crimes. A legal medical marijuana grow site seems it would be a big target for theft and if pharmacies get those defenses I could understand a grower wanting them too.
make it available to everyone that shit won't happen.
simple math.
simple math.
I know you had a traumatic personal experience with violent rippers, but I did not read the above statement anywhere in this thread.
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SeaMaiden
The above posts gave me that impression. And here's the problem I see with the laws we already have on the books--they're not applied equally to all. It was not after my home invasion, but previously, when I read about the plea bargain this group of murderers worked out, and the local responses to it that I began to view this type of criminal activity as a kind of hate crime. Then, speaking to others who are growing legally, or who are too afraid to exercise their legal right, further impressed upon me how we, as a group of people who are doing our best to operate legally, are still marginalized by mainstream society.
I've been ripped before of outdoor plants and felt I could *not* go to police to report it despite my status as a legal medical patient, by the way. This was confirmed speaking with friends who are familiar with our local law enforcement.
Don't forget that last year I was active locally when an urgency ordinance was enacted by our county board of supervisors banning all outdoor cultivation immediately after this man's murder. I've been tasting what it's like to have to fight those who would not have us, who would and do not care one iota whether or not WE are made into victims of whatever kind, or worse yet (and why I haven't wanted my story known locally), blaming the victim for the crime committed against them. As a woman, this is felt particularly sharply.
Then I was victimized myself and got a real personal taste of another aspect of this whole thing.
So, what do we, as a group, do if we're not experiencing the same weight of law on our side? This is exactly like hate crimes to me for this reason.
^I see your point but there is a key word in there, and that is "Hate Crime." A violent act is a violent act. The motive makes no difference. Violence is all hate crime to begin with. To advocate further punishment for motive makes it seem as if some other forms of violence are somehow more justifiable or less despicable. It is absolutely absurd that anyone that commits murder received a plea deal for 20 years. murder should be life in prison. till the day you die. Just the people that assaulted you should receive at least 60 years. With current laws, if there is a vicious prosecutor; if caught they could be given attempted murder because they could have easily killed you if you had had certain health conditions that they didn't know of.
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SeaMaiden
I used to hold your point of view regarding hate crimes, it seemed completely nonsensical to me. Then, a friend gave me an explanation and understanding that caused me to change my mind.
If someone is murdered, say the woman in Berkeley who was shot riding her bike, it is absolutely a hateful thing. However, the full effect is not that bike riders will feel targeted, and that they may no longer ride bikes any more or less safely than anyone else.
A homosexual is murdered specifically because he is homosexual and the entire community feels threatened, specifically due to their homosexuality. Insert any other minority in place of homosexual. Black, Asian, Mexican, Hispanic, MMJ patient, and the concept fits. In my case, and in others, there are those who feel that the criminals should not be prosecuted, let alone to the fullest extent of the law, because they take issue with who and what we are. I'm including you in this group.
I can speak directly to that because of my own experience, but I also think that we as a group can speak to that if we simply go through a few threads, and will find examples of people being victimized and, despite being of legal status, not being able to fully enjoy benefit of the laws already on the books.
In a "hate crime", the antagonism of the perpetrators towards the social/racial group to which the victim belongs, is the motivation for committing that crime. If those who despise cannabis use and users were the ones committing these acts, they would be hate crimes. But those doing this are not opposed to pot or pot smokers. These criminals hope to sell the cannabis they steal to pot smokers. The rippers are probably pot smokers themselves. They have nothing against cannabis, they're just predatory individuals who see growers as an easy mark.
Now one reason growers are a good target is because of the likelihood that such crimes will go unreported by the victim, or if reported, not be properly investigated and prosecuted because of the attitudes of those running our legal system. This is a real problem, but making it a hate crime isn't the answer.
Now one reason growers are a good target is because of the likelihood that such crimes will go unreported by the victim, or if reported, not be properly investigated and prosecuted because of the attitudes of those running our legal system. This is a real problem, but making it a hate crime isn't the answer.
Doesn't everybody in a neighborhood feel more threatened when something bad happens to any of there neighbors. I mean, unless the criminal made specific reference to why he was doing it, like he beat up a jewish guy and then spray painted a swastika on his car the whole neighborhood should feel just as threatened as the other jewish guys in my opinion. My reasoning for this is people willing to commit crimes like that for reason of race, religion, ethnicity, etc, are not logical. they are also willing to hurt anyone they view as sympathizers; which to them is anyone not in their hate group.
More reasoning is against federal hate crime laws. here is my example. A Jewish guys in New york will not feel threatened because a Jewish guy in L.A. got attacked for being Jewish. the separation is by thousands of miles. Still though all the non Jews in that LA neighborhood will feel unsafe.
More reasoning is against federal hate crime laws. here is my example. A Jewish guys in New york will not feel threatened because a Jewish guy in L.A. got attacked for being Jewish. the separation is by thousands of miles. Still though all the non Jews in that LA neighborhood will feel unsafe.
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SeaMaiden
What would be the answer? It's easier to change laws than minds.
law enforcements attitudes are hatred imo. we are targeted because of some insane hatred for our particular segmentg of society. to add another arrow to their burgeoning quiver is playing into their game.
laws of man be damned.
there has always been crime. population increase dictates an increase in crime also, there is no way to avoid it. that being so, there is actually a decrease in violent crimes recently ( http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/september/crime_091911/crime_091911) .
the paradigm shift must come from an equity unattainable from our end...saying here the laws must favor no one group...and the other end isn't about to aquiesce their advantage.
adding to that advantage in haste is out of whack.
laws of man be damned.
there has always been crime. population increase dictates an increase in crime also, there is no way to avoid it. that being so, there is actually a decrease in violent crimes recently ( http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/september/crime_091911/crime_091911) .
the paradigm shift must come from an equity unattainable from our end...saying here the laws must favor no one group...and the other end isn't about to aquiesce their advantage.
adding to that advantage in haste is out of whack.
I know this will sound like an oversimplification, but if i were not victimized for carrying a weapon...nor for using it to defend myself and my property...maybe even be encouraged to take those actions on my behalf...rippers would think twice about ripping me/us as such an easy target. Afyer ther first couple stories of a bloodbath, and no prosecution of the grower...
^Yes but I dont ever want to kill anyone. definitely not over a plant that I can literally just grow more of. If some one is braking in my backdoor I'm going out the front. fuck it.
Thats me too... 99.99% of the time. Ideally,i wouldnt ever be put in a position to consider it. But i feel rage when attacked, in the moment...fight kicks in,not flight. It isnt even a conscious thing,it a deep seeded response to threat. If the threat is real, its a shame i cant do for myself...and cant go to the authorities just the same.
Its not a perfect answer, and never having taken someone elses life...the consequences dont hit home. Maybe id feel horrible...probably.
a bit like the monty python "in search of the holy grail" with the french telling king arthur to fuck off...Run Away Run Away!
no one wants to kill another till there is no other way.
but we were afforded the 2nd amendment so that we didn't have to wait for the cops to show. someone kicking in my back door gets carried away on it. someone crazy enough to not think another has protection should be culled.
no one wants to kill another till there is no other way.
but we were afforded the 2nd amendment so that we didn't have to wait for the cops to show. someone kicking in my back door gets carried away on it. someone crazy enough to not think another has protection should be culled.
