is there a way to encourage females from seed?

[thelaughingman]

I'm starting to feel like these beans are doodinized(dude-inized) lol
I remember reading a thread similar to this one, but I can't really remember jack, just conditions to encourage more females..
Also I was told that starting seeds in the frig is a good way to encourage females?

 

[noyd666]

fun.

fun.

add money juice.lol should work. i keep seeds in fridge to preserve, not start in fridge, ya right about dude inized, lol called bad luck. what moe said, floures.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

Well Well some say yes some say no ! Old debate

But those who said yes, goes by those rules to have more females:
70% RH in veg
Temps never higher than 75f
16 hours of light on
More N than P and K
And ZERO Stress

U can always try and see if it work... Good luck

 

[Cool Moe]

I just had 16 plants from seed but when I up-potted at 14 days then only 10 fit under the t5. The best looking 10 stayed under the light for 3 more weeks but the other 6 were put outdoors 26N into weak winter sun at 14 days from sprout. The 6 that went to low light before their time turned 4m/2f. The 10 that grew 3 more weeks under t5 (on 24hrs) then got put out to low sun were 0m/10f. Go figure.

A friend who was using hps for veg light was also getting a high percentage of males. When I told him he'd get more females by vegging under t5 fluorescent 24hrs on, he nearly laughed and definitely didn't believe me. Then he switched and his female ratio went way way up, over and over again. Now he believes me.

Doubters gonna doubt but from what I've seen, start em up under t5s 24hrs on for at least 4 to 5 weeks and you'll get more females. Perfect temp no-stress environment helps too.

 

[frito bandito]

stress of any kind definitely causes more males

 

[thelaughingman]

perfect temp and stress free environment check and check.. I'm going to give that a try moe thanks

 

[thelaughingman]

stress is the enemy.. so what is stressful to a seedling/sprout/plant

 

[Maximo]

Go to eco enterprises web site and look up sensi seed soak, its a soaking/germination solution for seeds to promote females, use it with sense spray and you will, i have tried this and got almost 100% females, but I must warn you these chemicals change the plants on a genetic level, and now your playing God, and sometimes you get frankenstiens, ok, just my 2¢.

Peace out

 

[messn'n'gommin']

I copied this some years ago.

Please do not take this as an endorsement, but rather as an fyi. Without taking either side, some will say it's pie-in-the-sky and some will say it works. Still, others could care less. You can try these suggestions at your own discretion.

HERE IS HOW TO PRODUCE MOSTLY FEMALES FROM STANDARD SEEDS

As a grower I always believed that the seed was genetically predisposed to its sexual orientation as soon as fertilization of the ovule took place in the female. Basically this means that if you take a single female plant and produced seeds from her that the ratios are already set in the offspring. If a gender detection test could be established the males could be separated from the females there are then. If this where true then the breeder’s packs of ten seeds per pack could easily turn out to be all males or all females because of this genetic predisposition. However this is not the case!

One of the areas of my interest was in the feminized seed programs that so successfully charged through-the-roof prices on seeds that are reported to grow all females. However, as many growers here like myself have experienced - this is not always the case either!

Feminized seeds work on the bases that there is a genetic predisposition for the plant to produce females because of special treatment that it gets in the selfing stages of a unique XX female. I won’t go into this in detail here because there is enough information on the process across the entire internet. Anyhow, in an optimal growing environment it is very easy to produce ALL females from these treated female plants. OPTIMAL is the key word here because in less than optimal growing conditions strange things start to happen to these feminized seeds.

In a single pack of feminized seeds a grower can produce:

Females.
Hermaphrodites.
Males.

Yeah, that’s right. Males! So where are these males coming from and how are they making there way into the feminized seed process. The answer is a very simple one. Sex is not completely determined in the cannabis plant until a few weeks before flowering. We will talk about this in a moment but now back to the feminized seeds.

In optimal growing conditions feminized seeds will kick out 100% females. This says a lot for growing conditions and the actual role they play on cannabis gender development. How many times have growers seen these effects of multiple genders from Feminized seeds? The answer lies clearly in how well they grow. Growers who are growing in non-stressful conditions will never see the male effect from feminized seeds and so hence it does not exist for them. However over periods time and different growing techniques the grower will eventually see these results when growing in less than optional environments. MALES!

For this reason growers who choose feminized seeds should be forewarned to get their growing environments down to a T. If you prevent stress then you prevent males and hermaphrodites appearing in a feminized seed population. It is as SIMPLY AS THAT.

Now onto the real topic of interest. Boosting those female to male ratios.

As many growers know seed banks are not responsible for male to female ratios. If you get a pack of all males, as many of us have done, then a quick call to your seed bank can maybe help procure some good substitute freebies with your second order. However some will not go along with this. It depends on your relationship with the seed bank. Give a shot anyhow, that is my advice, but be discreet and don’t blame the seed bank or breeder.

A couple of years ago Dutch Passion released an essay on how to increase mostly females from a pack of seeds. This is an excellent piece of work and has helped me to gain more of an interest in this area. In the past few years I have come to develop my own systems to get those ratios on the up and up. Right now I am very happy to report a real increase in my females from standard seeds. Sometimes as high as 90% to 95% on a consistent basis. So how is it done?

I prefer standard seeds for numerous reasons. The first reason being that feminized seeds come from hermie plants. Whichever way you look at it, the specially treated plants are hermed and this trait is often expressed in the offspring where conditions are less than optimal. Even with standard seeds the hermaphrodite condition is still achievable where stress occurs. I seem to have noticed that the two most stressful conditions which can cause the hermaphrodite trait occur before flowering in the vegetative phase of growing is around the 3rd to 4th week of growth before pre-flowering when the plant undergoes either heat stress or a problem with the 24/0 or 18/6 photoperiod (whatever vegetative photoperiod choose doesn’t matter, as long as disruptions occur). Even during the initial stages of calyx development males and females are obvious side by side at the node region. This is hermaphroditism due to vegetative growth problems. In the flowering period, hermaphrodites generally occur quicker because of an irregular photoperiod than anything else and heat stress certainly helps bananas to pop up in with the bud. Now, even Sinsemilla crops will herm towards the end depending on the strain. I don’t class this as a typical case of hermaphrodites. It is just something that some strains naturally do towards the end of the Sinsemilla procedure.

Anyhow for starters we better reproduce what Dutch Passion have to say about there feminized seeds first.

"Feminised Cannabis Seeds"

Courtesy of Dutch Passion

In November 1998 we introduced our "Female Cannabis Seed". We did this after our own experiments showed that from female seed, we acquired almost 100% female off-spring.

In the meantime we are six months further on . We have received a lot of feed-back from our customers. The reactions are mostly positive, clients who have successfully produced almost 100% female off-spring. However there have been reactions from customers who found a few hermaphrodites or males plants. Apparently environmental influences affect the sex of the female seeds as well. Because of the fact that Female seeds do not grow into female plants under all circumstances, we changed the name from "Female Cannabis Seeds" into "Feminised Cannabis Seeds".

From literature and from our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or a female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. Not only the origination of entirely male or female plants is partly affected by these environmental factors, the number of male and female flowers on a hermaphrodite plant is affected as well. The environmental factors that influence the sex of the plant (or the flower in the case of hermaphrodites), are among other things:

The quantity of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed.
Humidity and moistness of the seedbed.
Level of temperatures.
Colour of the light used.
Length of daylight.
Stress, any form of stress, makes that more male individuals will originate from seed. Even the taking of cuttings from female plants may produce male or hermaphrodite cuttings.
To optimise the result, changes in one or more of the above-mentioned environmental factors for a certain period during growth, may be applied. During this time these environmental factors will deviate from the standard growing system for maximum harvest and quality, as described in nursery literature. The desired change(s) in the environmental factor(s) are started from the moment that the seedling has three pairs of real leaves (not counting the seed-lobes). This is the moment that male and/or female predisposition in florescence is being formed. After approximately two weeks the standard growing system can be reconverted to.
Of the 5 above-mentioned environmental factors the first three are the most practical:

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female plants originating from the seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.
2. Humidity and moistness of the seedbed: a higher humidity makes for an increase in the number of female plants from seed, a lowering for an increase in male plants. The same is valid for the moistness of the seedbed.
3. Level of temperatures: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female plants, higher temperatures for more male plants.
4. Colour of light: more blue light makes for female plants from seed, more red light makes for more male plants.
5. Hours of daylight: few hours of daylight (e.g. 14 hours) makes for more female individuals, a long day (e.g. 18 hours) makes for more male plants.

Now let me just make a few adjustments here to this. You can do whatever you want to your plants in seedling stage and early vegetative stage of growth and it will not effect your final male to female ratios. The time when things should be near perfect is in or around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. This is the CRITICAL TIME for getting those female ratios up and up. I realized this clearly when noticing how some plants hermed because of problems that occurred around this period of the plants development. If the problems occurred before this time - no herms. So for this reason I surmised that this is when the crucial gender selection is made by the plant. Now I believe that the genders are set in the seed however the environment has a massive impact on how this is expressed in the final phenotypic expression of the plants gender. There are probably many genes that govern this, however lets get into how to up these female ratios.

At the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth make sure that your plants are free from stress. No pests attacks, no fungi attacks, no mold, no irregular photoperiod, not underwatered, not overwatered, not pruned or topped, a cannabis friendly soil mix, not recently transplanted, no small pots. If have these basic growing conditions under control then we can move onto the real forces of female production from standard seeds.

N:K and nutrients. What this simply boils down to is that you have the right nutrients present in the right ratios. A nutrient formulation that has roughly equal parts N, P and K is great but if the P levels go up or the N levels go down you are starting to look at a flowering type food for cannabis. If you do this then your odds of producing mostly females is greatly decreased. Make sure that you get those N, P and K levels to almost run from higher to lower amounts from N to P and K. I have noticed that equal portions of N to P an K can help with the female ratios but the higher N is certainly more helpful. So around the 3rd of 4th week of growth make sure that the ratios are good and that P or K has not gone above the N and P or else more males will occur. Obviously this means to avoid overfeeding your plants around this time too.

Never let your medium dry out completely around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. If you make sure to water occasionally, but not to overwater your plants, you will get those female ratios on the up and up. Overwatering or drying out of the medium will only produce more males. For consistent results in getting more females keeps those mediums moist.

Humidity. Now this is the tricky one. High humidity levels only promote fungi and mold development and lowering humidity levels is the way to cure most of this rot but by keeping those humidity levels up in or around the 70 rH factor will help to produce more females. If you have a low humidity grow room then you should get to hold of a humidifier. Now high humidity levels like 70rH cause the medium to dry out a lot quicker so you got to keep this under control too. Keep those mediums moist and those rH levesl at 70. This will help to improve those female to male ratios. Again, getting them on the up and up.

If you run the 24/0 photoperiod then do not allow those temps to go anywhere above 85 unless you have an equatorial strain. 75 is the best but going a little lower is not a problem for helping those female ratios. If you can get in at around 65 then those females are going to be popping up all over the place. The problem with this is that some growers like to use the 18/6 photoperiod and when the lights are off the temps drop from around 65 to 50 and even less. Try not to be below 55 because this has the adverse effect on the plants producing more males than females. Again between 65 and 75 is where you want to be during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth, the preference being 70.

Invest in a MH Light for vegetative growth. Dump the HPS bulb for flowering later. I have noticed that HPS lighting during vegetative growth simply sends those males to female ratios all over the place. With MH lamps the females are everywhere. Invest in some MH HID lights. It makes all the difference in getting those females to show more often. This is worth repeating! MH Bulbs produce more females under optimal conditions especially if they are present during the 3rd and 4th week of vegetative growth. Surprising enough you can start seedlings under HPS and it will not have an effect on those female ratios. Again the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth is what is important here.

No stress during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. That is all there is to it. If you got your garden growing in optimal conditions without plant stress then the impressive 90% to 95% females start to emerge from standard seed packs. I find that topping is best done at the second to third week of vegetative growth but that this is a little stressful and can lead to those female ratios dropping again. Avoid topping or pruning if you are looking to up the female count.

That is all I have to say for the moment. These little snippets of information in conjunction with what DP uncovered have helped my female ratios considerably. Hopefully you can see the same results too. Have fun getting those environments optimal for females!!!!!!!!

strawdog
__________________
Geneticswizard
OG's FAQ

Peace and good luck!

 

[unregistered190]

I copied this some years ago.

Please do not take this as an endorsement, but rather as an fyi. Without taking either side, some will say it's pie-in-the-sky and some will say it works. Still, others could care less. You can try these suggestions at your own discretion.

Peace and good luck!

subscribed so i can come back and read strawdogs post.......thanks m n g

 

[thelaughingman]

thanks for the fyi mng peace to you and to everyone

 

[Bag]

i read and then tried a high P seed soak before ya put seeds in dirt, i put seeds in a shot glass of ej bloom ffor about 2 hours, 12 for 12 females, id try it again, it seemed to work 100 percent, i cant be that lucvky, give it a shot

 

[Hammerhead]

I soak all my seeds. I recently started using silica I put a smidge with the water. So far all females not one male in the last run. Im trying it again we will see

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I stress my seedlings pretty hard.

Last thing I want is my favorite chick popping some balls when she's at the beach on a hot day.

If it has any inclination of being male... I prefer that trait to show as a seedling. *burping* or *babying* plants in any way does not work for me. LOL

Stay Safe!

 

[TheArchitect]

I'd have to dig around, but a class of natural pgr's I believe if used as a seed soak encourages females.

I recommend looking into it, I'll be trying to find where I read it so i can post it here.

 

[Easy7]

Using MH during stretch will bring more females and HPS will get more males. True about nut leels too

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

I don't think so personally, I don't have any experience trying to get more females either though. I think you plant the seeds and you get what you get regardless of the type of light, strength, and schedule. How can you be sure whatever you did resulted in more females, maybe they were just females to begin with? I would have to see alot of results in a large quantity for me to believe it.

 

[growshopfrank]

it may be BS but I read something about not restricting the initial root growth when the bean first cracks promotes more females
I think that was in Clarke's book mj botany
seems to work I just stack two rooters when it starts to go

 

[ZZTops]

Can environment determine sex...?

I don't know but it's not unheard of in the Wild Kingdom...

Take alligators...

The sex of the offspring is determined by the temperature in the nest and is fixed within 7 to 21 days of the start of incubation. Incubation temperatures of 86 °F (30 °C) or lower produce a clutch of females; those of 93 °F (34 °C) or higher produce entirely males.

Food for Thought...

 

[foomar]

When that article was published it was tested with enthusiasm on the forums , but i dont remember any quantified results.

With one of my own crosses the M/F rate is nearing 50/50 over 300+ plants , popped in tens from packs i forgot to send in as freebies , individual packs varied from 9/10 girls to 8/10 males , along with a random spread of colour trait , running a single pack will not tell you much of value and quantified results need a lot of seed to test.

My concern with coaxing a borderline plant into one sex or the other in veg hours , is that it reverts later in flower under 12/12 regime or other floweroom stress.

Would try manipulateing environment to maximise males , on the reasoning that those girls left are more stable.