Using Millipedes for Composting

[Ouzo180]

I am currently starting a worm bin and the thought jumped into my head about trying Milli-composting along side it and see how the results go.

I know it seems weird but I have always had in interest in bugs and I have yet to own millipedes but have always been interested.

Any thoughts on what size of millipede I should use? Should I just use native millipedes? I would love to have an excuse to get some GIANT/colorful millipedes but.... I know the smaller worms are liked because they go through their life cycles faster and young worms consume more. The same is likely true in Millipedes.

A few sites for anyone interested;

A nice millicompost experiment
http://recent-science.com/index.php/rrst/article/viewFile/8591/4389

A site with a bunch of millipede varieties
http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Millipedes_c7.htm

 

[Ouzo180]

I emailed Bugsincyberspace and Dr. Paul Marek from the University of Arizona, Tuscon. He is supposed to be a millipede expert and they (Bugsincyberspace) are in retail so it will be interesting to see what they say and how similar/disimilar their opinions are, if they get back with me at all, lol.

I also asked the Bugsincyberspace if they knew where to find Rove Beetles. These are supposed to be pretty great little pest eaters. There are local forms in my area but I don't think searching for bugs at the end of November will be very fruitful.

 

[Ouzo180]

Here is the email from Bugsincyberspace:

Worms are cheaper.

I'd guess the larger ones would do a much better job, but your question is
slightly outside my observational tendencies.

Different sizes can certainly live together, though many breeders do
separate out the babies from the older colony and move them into a smaller
container to make observation easier.

Different species can also be kept together, though this is usually done
either because there is always a small chance that one species will consume
the other's eggs. That can happen in overpopulated cages of the same species
probably too.

Sorry I can't offer more concrete information.

 

[brp4e]

Just so you guys know, I may be wrong but some species of (or most? I don't know, I'm just going by what I have seen and been told) millipedes are known to have lice infestations living in their leg area. Don't know if it's relevant or not but just thought you guys might like to know that there may be other bugs hitching a ride on your bugs lol

 

[Ouzo180]

Just so you guys know, I may be wrong but some species of (or most? I don't know, I'm just going by what I have seen and been told) millipedes are known to have lice infestations living in their leg area. Don't know if it's relevant or not but just thought you guys might like to know that there may be other bugs hitching a ride on your bugs lol

Is this just something you have been told or do you have a specific knowledge in this area?

I'm not too concerned...people keep these things for pets and I've never heard any complaints about lice outbreaks. They could just have a specific type of lice that doesn't transfer to other creatures, or even mammals for that matter.

Im running living soil so I will have many creatures anyway I am sure. I'll poke around and see what the deal is.
The heads up is appreciated regardless though!

 

[Ouzo180]

It seems they are mites, not lice, and they are species specific;
"One particularly interesting aspect of millipede biology is the symbiotic relationship that they have with the small, species-specific mites that live on them. These mites actually help to keep the millipedes clean, and pose no health threat if enclosures are properly maintained. These mites will not spread to you or to other types of animals in your collection."
From:
http://lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/invertebrates/-/giant-black-millipede/

 

[Ouzo180]

Another good link:
http://millipede-mayhem.piczo.com/?g=23045035&cr=2

From other reading I have done it seems that the African Giant Black's are the carriers of the mites. That's supposedly why they are no longer going to be available. When I get my Milli's I will examine them to make sure anyway though, it seems to be a hot debate in the Milli community of how beneficial they are and most seem to think the Millis do fine without them. I assume the smaller you go the less problem this would be. Mites are small but the really small Milli's would be hard for a mite to inhabit I would think. I'll research more before getting them near my grow though.

 

[Ouzo180]

Received an email from Dr. Paul Marek @ the University of Arizona:

Yes, I've thought a bit about this. I think the best kind are NOT the Polydesmida (the flat-backed ones, e.g. http://www.apheloria.org/Paul_Marek/Images.html). You'd be better off with the Spirobolida, especially Narceus (if you're in the eastern U.S.) or Tylobolus (if you're in the western U.S.). It really depends on your location and dryness of your compost. Desert millipedes in the genus Orthoporus (different order Spirostreptida) would be good too but they're much more dry-adapted and will not do well in humid/wet environments. (These genera are common and you can see images of them by Googling their names.)

I had a stellar culture of Narceus (the very common brown millipede in the eastern U.S.) for a really long time while living in Chicago. They really liked moist oak leaves and pieces of wood. I had them in an aquarium and kept adding leaves and other detritus, and they would eat and eat and eat - decomposing and reducing the detritus level in the aquarium.

Millipedes in general are good for breaking down bigger pieces of organic matter (like big wood chunks) into smaller pieces so that earthworms and other decomposers can take the process even further. They'd probably complement the earthworms nicely if you have larger pieces of compost the earthworms take awhile to eat. (However, there is evidence of competition between earthworms, especially introduced species, and millipedes - e.g., work by Bruce Snyder). Another thing is that some millipedes (and Narceus seems to have a broader diet) are specialists and eat only one or a few types of decaying leaves.

I don't think a lot of folks have tried composting with millipedes! I'd love to hear your experiences if you give them a try!

- Paul

Seems like something worth delving into. At the very least feeding worms millicompost should turn out some grade A EWC. Now I just have to source some of these buggers.

 

[frito bandito]

interesting

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Ouzo

Check out Black Soldier Fly (BSF) for reducing large amounts of biomass in a matter of a few hours. You then run their manure through a worm bin.

Some of the YouTube videos (time-lapsed) showing how fast the larva work will definitely give you something to think about.

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

Received an email from Dr. Paul Marek @ the University of Arizona:

Yes, I've thought a bit about this. I think the best kind are NOT the Polydesmida (the flat-backed ones, e.g. http://www.apheloria.org/Paul_Marek/Images.html). You'd be better off with the Spirobolida, especially Narceus (if you're in the eastern U.S.) or Tylobolus (if you're in the western U.S.). It really depends on your location and dryness of your compost. Desert millipedes in the genus Orthoporus (different order Spirostreptida) would be good too but they're much more dry-adapted and will not do well in humid/wet environments. (These genera are common and you can see images of them by Googling their names.)

I had a stellar culture of Narceus (the very common brown millipede in the eastern U.S.) for a really long time while living in Chicago. They really liked moist oak leaves and pieces of wood. I had them in an aquarium and kept adding leaves and other detritus, and they would eat and eat and eat - decomposing and reducing the detritus level in the aquarium.

Millipedes in general are good for breaking down bigger pieces of organic matter (like big wood chunks) into smaller pieces so that earthworms and other decomposers can take the process even further. They'd probably complement the earthworms nicely if you have larger pieces of compost the earthworms take awhile to eat. (However, there is evidence of competition between earthworms, especially introduced species, and millipedes - e.g., work by Bruce Snyder). Another thing is that some millipedes (and Narceus seems to have a broader diet) are specialists and eat only one or a few types of decaying leaves.

I don't think a lot of folks have tried composting with millipedes! I'd love to hear your experiences if you give them a try!

- Paul

Seems like something worth delving into. At the very least feeding worms millicompost should turn out some grade A EWC. Now I just have to source some of these buggers.

I've been checking this thread, unfortunately have had nothing to add or suggest. If I'm understanding this and your previous posts, would you agree that perhaps they'd perform better in combination with other animals? Or are you going to try to set something up similar to the aquarium mentioned above?

 

[Oregonism]

Good reads, Cootz beat me to the BSF's, they tear shit up.

I compost with slugs [can't beat em, join em]. The info is limited ANYWHERE, but they do secrete similar chemicals to earthworms, but the caveat is they live only on the surface or quite near it. But the compost was used and no complaints seem to be issued.

Definitely interested in mixing fauna to achieve a compost. Thanks. Another bug to add.

Edit: it would be interesting to see if the millipede introduce microfauna that are specific. That would start more interest maybe.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Millipedes for Composting? - i think the idea definitely has legs. let us know how you get on.

VG

 

[Ouzo180]

Hey everyone! Thanks for dropping by!

CC and Oregonism: I'll check those flies out they sound very useful.

Sea Maiden: It seems like millipedes would be best used in tandem with worms or other decomposers. I'll likely start out with just the millis until I fashion a system to integrate them together. Or just outright put the millis in a worm bin.

Not much to add on my own but I recieved another email from Paul. I sent out another email after last time in concern with the mites millis carry.

Paul's Email;
"Awesome, I'm excited about this!
Apparently, earthworms feeding on millipede pellets has been shown to be beneficial to them.
I attached an interesting recent article by a colleague Bruce Snyder, the guru of earthworm/millipede interactions- that mentions it.
About the mites... they seem to be specific to millipedes and at most arthropods - certainly not plants (like the Phytoseiidae).
<]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]])<

I attached the PDF he sent to this post.

Thanks for dropping by again! I will try and get some of these beasties soon.

 

[SeaMaiden]

You could set up a long bin or tank, and populate it with various 'pods' along with various annelids (segmented worms), and you may get something much more... 'natural', in terms of what the plants would experience, than just worm castings.

What made you think of this? Just popped into your head, or what? I can tell you that, back when we had a gecko, my plants clearly enjoyed getting his cage sand, which was always laden with both his and cricket droppings. I would scrape off the top layer, trying to capture as much cricket & gecko poo as possible, then top-dress. Next day I would see bursts of new growth and slightly more tumescence, regardless of conditions (weather parameters). So, perhaps consider something reptilian, and cricket poo, along with your multi-legged show.

VG, you're cracking me up.

 

[Ouzo180]

You could set up a long bin or tank, and populate it with various 'pods' along with various annelids (segmented worms), and you may get something much more... 'natural', in terms of what the plants would experience, than just worm castings.

What made you think of this? Just popped into your head, or what? I can tell you that, back when we had a gecko, my plants clearly enjoyed getting his cage sand, which was always laden with both his and cricket droppings. I would scrape off the top layer, trying to capture as much cricket & gecko poo as possible, then top-dress. Next day I would see bursts of new growth and slightly more tumescence, regardless of conditions (weather parameters). So, perhaps consider something reptilian, and cricket poo, along with your multi-legged show.

VG, you're cracking me up.

The idea just popped into my head when I was looking up getting a giant millipede or two as a pet/s. =) I knew they were decomposers so I just started poking around and found that study I posted near the top. Always trying something new around here it seems...