Breeding Ethics

[bluntmassa]

With the exception of genetically modified canola, when you buy any seed, you are free to do what you want with the progeny and the seeds produced. Why should marijuana be any different? What makes any breeder think he has the right to determine what happens after he sells the seeds? Can you imagine the state of our agricultural industry if farmers couldn't make and sell seeds.

It's obvious that commercial marijuana breeders are greedy and would charge as much as they could if given the chance. The fact that marijuana and it's seeds are illegal in most countries around the world is what has driven the price of seeds and weed. If marijuana were legal, a 10 pack of seeds would cost the same as a pack of tomato seeds.

Commercial breeders have been gouging us for years and now they want our sympathy when competition enters the market. Let's see them copy write the names and sue the people illegally using their names. As for the genetics, if you sell the seeds, you've forfeited your rights to the exclusive genetics, hence the cost.

they have patents for most legal seeds so you can't take any breeders seeds and sell as your own. they got patents on corn, tamato, broccoli, etc. but cannabis being ileagal then your right any one can do anything with your hard work cause its not possible to get a pattent on a UN controled drug. but I heard cw pharmacuticals has patented a few strains not sure what though.

 

[huarmiquilla]

howdy sam

how you do?

respect you perspective and individual unique perspective, love to you
thank you for conversations

am understand of you to difficult to fathom such things, as perspective is to form such opinion....
one perspective, the skunk #1 as name one perspective human have no monopoly on names and words, am keen to think someone already use the name sam for a child or title to another form, and such do not claim ownership of this name

one perspective, titles and boundaries invent of the mind of human is not to share love

such to think, if not name then the seedline is what human are think to own, one perspective am keen to relate the only seed human are to own in a sense of this word are the seed human are to produce and put energy into, and at when human are to offer them to another for sale or gratis, while human are to make this seed is no longer human seed to select to choose or to do with as human wish

the traits and specimens of this lineage, you select or another human select remain to be this variety....at where in this line and what selections are not some other variety, at where does one variety and another variety of cannabis start and end is still cannabis sativa blended, can someone own the recipe to make bread? with natural things, the recombination of such is for all living thing one perspective

i am agree to you with respect to poor skunk selection and preservation, though how to preserve moments in nature? am keen to ask is this skunk you refer to own, this seedline create within an artificially created environment? perhap this you have more for conversations, for example to create a specific environment artificially, such to mimic the quote, you must first invent the universe

please do not patent artificially created environments conducive to such and such terpenes and cannabinoid ratios, or some such various method for claim ownership of living cells and seed of life

the seed of life is contain within all living things, cells and at primordial level

am not to judge to you, am simple one perspective, am to respect you, unique preference and experience indeed you are great....all living thing great

is not you selection, is a selection from you selection, which is selection of other selection
excellent or poor selection and direction of such a line, is still this line, good or bad is still the line and expression therewith are base on terrior and various selection filter, human to include as such a selection filter

am relate the sun, water and other things such to include that human are not only variable for create any cannabis variety, such terrior shape various seedlines and human simple and fortunate to experience within such moment and preserve for future generation with pure love

similar but not similar to a painting, as perspective again to determine our preference.

one perspective cannabis is not a painting, cannabis is alive and continue to adapt and thrive and grow and love

artist create a painting from within, and all of this painting is of their creation derive of them....each stroke to the brush each colour selection and everything is the artist input and without this artist, the painting is not exist, without man cannabis exist

for think more with respect to artist and art, without to think the actual material of the art, canvas and paint and such....the creative expression derive of at when another look at this painting is also own to the artist? or such the viewer?

one perspective cannabis selection similar to simple view of experience, if such artist do not wish to share do not show or sell such art....similar to human to make seed this is preference and am not to judge, am keen to opinion, but never to judge is right or wrong

that which create the seed of life create such for within natural being is not for profit from bottleneck of resources one perspective, by design is such....as illustrate with prolific amount of seed a single plant can create

one perspective for to select is not the same as to create, selection is simple as to enjoy the observable enjoyable things, such is life to be we can do not another thing but select and experience the thing we like

with respect to cannabis is more limit resources to separate the perceive skill not at how we select and enjoy, human are similar in enjoyment for similar tastes, not such to enjoy same things exact but the ability for preference is not unique for some and banish of others

am not to think you are incorrect when you relate to the skunk within market current is subpar and such, but to not offer what you are to perceive as better representation is what?

am keen to source a skunk with much sativa trait, at where is you offer of this?

one perspective human do not input each of the building block of this variety, and similar the sun earth and soil human are but a variable in shape cannabis, such similar terrior a term for relate

one perspective human are a piece to this selection, but not the creator and not this is for claim of human to banish others from, indeed you have a right for such a different opinion and perspective, although as am to share different perspective does this make it true? for whom am reckon to depend with perspective

respect and love, and am keen to source many genetic you are to offer sam if you are keen to release many pure lines a touch more stable and focus on the best selections, hehehe
at why you are not to do this, many to have unique perspective but for compassion we must look at thing with the love and heart for another perspective

am try to understand your perspective and respect
recent freebie sachet of am thinks various lines x skunkhaze or some such is nice, but also pure lines and ibl are also nice
current market with all this hype and such, not that am to agree, but is reality you are easy to attain top price
am keen to think is not fear of subpar knockoff but the idea that the work of make seed is not difficult, as design seed of life not for profit, similar as we are not to enslave fellow humans or animals for profit

never can human achieve the greatness and ability within the universe until we stop to exploit another or hinder another one perspective

1 per seed is adequate even within this grey market, if the customer order from whichever place the denomination used should be one
one rupee
one peso
one euro
and such

if everyone gave everything for free, everyone would have everything for free!
1 per is such a small start in the hype grey market of cannabis, but the goal is free

positive vibrations

 

[southflorida]

I love it when what I presume is a non-grower starts pontificating about things he has zero experience about. Until you walk in my shoes you have zero right to tell me how I should feel.

I'm not telling you how you should feel, I pointed out that reality is what it is, and that in your posts in this thread you are writing that reality is not right.

This points at the fact that you think it should have been some other way, and that you continue to hold on to this delusional perspective for many, many years.

If you are not aware of this, something is blocking your awareness. Most likely it is hurt from not grasping that reality is always what it IS.

...and I've lost millions of dollars in real estate, and have been f*cked over many times by dishonest partners, so I am not a stranger to people taking something that I thought was mine.

...btw, just imagine what would happen if every breeder or pollen chucker would start saying what you're saying about Skunk#1....shit would simply get super ridiculous!...don't you think?

The hell with interpretations some people stole Skunk #1 knocked it off and sold it under it's name Skunk #1, simple enough do you have doubt it happened?

no...I think this is well known thing, and I have never seen anyone argue against this occuring...at least not in this thread.

I have accepted this a long time ago, but the truth is the truth.

that's the whole problem. you have not accepted this truth.

you think it is unfair and that it shouldn't have happened the way it did. if you accepted it, you would have let it go, and wouldn't write what you write in relation to Skunk#1 genetics or the name that you invented...over and over and over again!

people are always inventing something, what's the big deal about an invention?

you are on an ego trip, and if you don't see this, obviously you want to continue arguing against what is already in the past

you can't go back there and change anything, you shared the seeds, and got f*cked...happens every day...it's called life

human interaction and co-operation is not always based on love

as i pointed out many time, usually it is based on fear, and its close cousin greed...ever heard of these human qualities?

Please post on subject or don't post on this thread, the thread subject is Breeding Ethitics. Have you ever even posted on the subject of Cannabis?

I am posting on topic. If ethics are a set of principles of right conduct...anyone in this forum has the right to discuss these principles, and that's what I'm doing.

I don't have to be a breeder in order to post here...lol

It's enough that I have bought many seeds from breeders, and have received many more from members during ICmag420 cups. The fact that I don't post my grows online doesn't mean that I don't grow.

...and even if I never grew or bought seeds, fundamentally there is intent (motivation) that is fear-based and egoistical or love-based and focused on the greater good of all.

So what is right conduct? Is it love-based intent (motivation)? Or is it fear-based-egoistical intent (motivation)?

Not much love in your posts in this thread, in fact, mostly what I see is you saying that what happened with Skunk#1 shouldn't have happened.

This is not-in-sync with reality, and if you don't see this, it is a choice you are making...period!

If you were responsible, you would have let all of this go a long time ago, and we wouldn't be seeing these posts here on icmag about you being ripped of in relation to Skunk#1 at the end of year of 2012.

...i mean get real already.

...imho...it's time for you to simply stop being childish and grow up!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

To be honest I have a lot of trouble trying to figure out what you mean or are trying to say. Try saying it with just a few words, and maybe I can follow your intent.
-SamS

howdy sam

how you do?

respect you perspective and individual unique perspective, love to you
thank you for conversations

am understand of you to difficult to fathom such things, as perspective is to form such opinion....
one perspective, the skunk #1 as name one perspective human have no monopoly on names and words, am keen to think someone already use the name sam for a child or title to another form, and such do not claim ownership of this name

one perspective, titles and boundaries invent of the mind of human is not to share love

such to think, if not name then the seedline is what human are think to own, one perspective am keen to relate the only seed human are to own in a sense of this word are the seed human are to produce and put energy into, and at when human are to offer them to another for sale or gratis, while human are to make this seed is no longer human seed to select to choose or to do with as human wish

the traits and specimens of this lineage, you select or another human select remain to be this variety....at where in this line and what selections are not some other variety, at where does one variety and another variety of cannabis start and end is still cannabis sativa blended, can someone own the recipe to make bread? with natural things, the recombination of such is for all living thing one perspective

i am agree to you with respect to poor skunk selection and preservation, though how to preserve moments in nature? am keen to ask is this skunk you refer to own, this seedline create within an artificially created environment? perhap this you have more for conversations, for example to create a specific environment artificially, such to mimic the quote, you must first invent the universe

please do not patent artificially created environments conducive to such and such terpenes and cannabinoid ratios, or some such various method for claim ownership of living cells and seed of life

the seed of life is contain within all living things, cells and at primordial level

am not to judge to you, am simple one perspective, am to respect you, unique preference and experience indeed you are great....all living thing great

is not you selection, is a selection from you selection, which is selection of other selection
excellent or poor selection and direction of such a line, is still this line, good or bad is still the line and expression therewith are base on terrior and various selection filter, human to include as such a selection filter

am relate the sun, water and other things such to include that human are not only variable for create any cannabis variety, such terrior shape various seedlines and human simple and fortunate to experience within such moment and preserve for future generation with pure love

similar but not similar to a painting, as perspective again to determine our preference.

one perspective cannabis is not a painting, cannabis is alive and continue to adapt and thrive and grow and love

artist create a painting from within, and all of this painting is of their creation derive of them....each stroke to the brush each colour selection and everything is the artist input and without this artist, the painting is not exist, without man cannabis exist

for think more with respect to artist and art, without to think the actual material of the art, canvas and paint and such....the creative expression derive of at when another look at this painting is also own to the artist? or such the viewer?

one perspective cannabis selection similar to simple view of experience, if such artist do not wish to share do not show or sell such art....similar to human to make seed this is preference and am not to judge, am keen to opinion, but never to judge is right or wrong

that which create the seed of life create such for within natural being is not for profit from bottleneck of resources one perspective, by design is such....as illustrate with prolific amount of seed a single plant can create

one perspective for to select is not the same as to create, selection is simple as to enjoy the observable enjoyable things, such is life to be we can do not another thing but select and experience the thing we like

with respect to cannabis is more limit resources to separate the perceive skill not at how we select and enjoy, human are similar in enjoyment for similar tastes, not such to enjoy same things exact but the ability for preference is not unique for some and banish of others

am not to think you are incorrect when you relate to the skunk within market current is subpar and such, but to not offer what you are to perceive as better representation is what?

am keen to source a skunk with much sativa trait, at where is you offer of this?

one perspective human do not input each of the building block of this variety, and similar the sun earth and soil human are but a variable in shape cannabis, such similar terrior a term for relate

one perspective human are a piece to this selection, but not the creator and not this is for claim of human to banish others from, indeed you have a right for such a different opinion and perspective, although as am to share different perspective does this make it true? for whom am reckon to depend with perspective

respect and love, and am keen to source many genetic you are to offer sam if you are keen to release many pure lines a touch more stable and focus on the best selections, hehehe
at why you are not to do this, many to have unique perspective but for compassion we must look at thing with the love and heart for another perspective

am try to understand your perspective and respect
recent freebie sachet of am thinks various lines x skunkhaze or some such is nice, but also pure lines and ibl are also nice
current market with all this hype and such, not that am to agree, but is reality you are easy to attain top price
am keen to think is not fear of subpar knockoff but the idea that the work of make seed is not difficult, as design seed of life not for profit, similar as we are not to enslave fellow humans or animals for profit

never can human achieve the greatness and ability within the universe until we stop to exploit another or hinder another one perspective

1 per seed is adequate even within this grey market, if the customer order from whichever place the denomination used should be one
one rupee
one peso
one euro
and such

if everyone gave everything for free, everyone would have everything for free!
1 per is such a small start in the hype grey market of cannabis, but the goal is free

positive vibrations

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Stick to ethics of breeding or post elsewhere, I have zero interest in what you think, really this is a Cannabis forum.
I will not waste my time answering your post as it is basically non Cannabis related.
-SamS

I'm not telling you how you should feel, I pointed out that reality is what it is, and that in your posts in this thread you are writing that reality is not right.

This points at the fact that you think it should have been some other way, and that you continue to hold on to this delusional perspective for many, many years.

If you are not aware of this, something is blocking your awareness. Most likely it is hurt from not grasping that reality is always what it IS.

...and I've lost millions of dollars in real estate, and have been f*cked over many times by dishonest partners, so I am not a stranger to people taking something that I thought was mine.

...btw, just imagine what would happen if every breeder or pollen chucker would start saying what you're saying about Skunk#1....shit would simply get super ridiculous!...don't you think?



no...I think this is well known thing, and I have never seen anyone argue against this occuring...at least not in this thread.



that's the whole problem. you have not accepted this truth.

you think it is unfair and that it shouldn't have happened the way it did. if you accepted it, you would have let it go, and wouldn't write what you write in relation to Skunk#1 genetics or the name that you invented...over and over and over again!

people are always inventing something, what's the big deal about an invention?

you are on an ego trip, and if you don't see this, obviously you want to continue arguing against what is already in the past

you can't go back there and change anything, you shared the seeds, and got f*cked...happens every day...it's called life

human interaction and co-operation is not always based on love

as i pointed out many time, usually it is based on fear, and its close cousin greed...ever heard of these human qualities?



I am posting on topic. If ethics are a set of principles of right conduct...anyone in this forum has the right to discuss these principles, and that's what I'm doing.

I don't have to be a breeder in order to post here...lol

It's enough that I have bought many seeds from breeders, and have received many more from members during ICmag420 cups. The fact that I don't post my grows online doesn't mean that I don't grow.

...and even if I never grew or bought seeds, fundamentally there is intent (motivation) that is fear-based and egoistical or love-based and focused on the greater good of all.

So what is right conduct? Is it love-based intent (motivation)? Or is it fear-based-egoistical intent (motivation)?

Not much love in your posts in this thread, in fact, mostly what I see is you saying that what happened with Skunk#1 shouldn't have happened.

This is not-in-sync with reality, and if you don't see this, it is a choice you are making...period!

If you were responsible, you would have let all of this go a long time ago, and we wouldn't be seeing these posts here on icmag about you being ripped of in relation to Skunk#1 at the end of year of 2012.

...i mean get real already.

...imho...it's time for you to simply stop being childish and grow up!

 

[southflorida]

Stick to ethics of breeding or post elsewhere, I have zero interest in what you think, really this is a Cannabis forum.
I will not waste my time answering your post as it is basically non Cannabis related.
-SamS

okay Sam!

 

[purple_man]

my point of view is following: the main problem is the ILLEGALITY of the produce which is being discussed (seeds), which implies high prices mostly via ILLEGALITY and not via breeding effort.
if weed were legal, nobody would be paying 1 - xx dollars per seed...
next thing is, the illegality implies no "possiblity" of copyrighting/patenting etc...

hence, every and anyone can take any strain cross it with wathever and sell it as DIESEL kush or whatever is the hype at the moment. this kind of practice can only happen in a non "regulated" market, uncomparable to vegetable seed market. BUT if we were to have "standards", testing, patenting, only the big $ holders could "market" their seeds -> another form of "bottlenecking" and preselection of the cultivars would be in effect...

the last and 2nd most important "stumbling rock" in my opinion, is the lack of knowledge (biology/horticulture/...) eminent in most of the so called "breeders"... plus the possiblity of making BIG $ with little work

blessss
ps.: sam, please stop whining about the skunk#1... ain't plagiarism the highest form of flattery??? also, why not release the REAL DEAL skunk#1 and market it via seedboutique??? if it were advertised as the real deal, and including it's history, i guess most folks would be buying YOUR skunk#1 not white label ...

 

[mexcurandero420]

That is theft also but maybe not as bad as stealing the variety and the name?
-SamS

Skunk#11, Cheese etc all phenotypes of Skunk#1

Ever heard of plant breeder's right??

One of the first Skunk plants grown in a greenhouse in Holland with breeder Old Ed, who came from Oregon with genetics which were more suitable to grow outside in Holland than your Skunk#1 (to sensitive for mold and late to finish at 50 N).

Skunk#1 is also used in several researches with or without your permission???

Keep on growing

 

[meltybubble]

Skunk#11, Cheese etc all phenotypes of Skunk#1

Ever heard of plant breeder's right??

Nit picking.

ps.: sam, please stop whining about the skunk#1... ain't plagiarism the highest form of flattery??? also, why not release the REAL DEAL skunk#1 and market it via seedboutique??? if it were advertised as the real deal, and including it's history, i guess most folks would be buying YOUR skunk#1 not white label ...

Whining?
The pure is out there,whats so hard to understand about that?

Those who use ethics will always stand above the rest.

peace.

 

[ghostly]

Those are some nice shoes

 

[bluntmassa]

ps.: sam, please stop whining about the skunk#1... ain't plagiarism the highest form of flattery??? also, why not release the REAL DEAL skunk#1 and market it via seedboutique??? if it were advertised as the real deal, and including it's history, i guess most folks would be buying YOUR skunk#1 not white label ...

Whining?
The pure is out there,whats so hard to understand about that?

Those who use ethics will always stand above the rest.

peace.

for real he would sell plenty skunk#1 seeds I always buy from the original breeders of what ever strain I buy. it would be nice if everyone did that then these knock off breeders would be out of buisness or be forced to actually come out with something on their own.

but either way he puts his skunk#1 out I'm good for 5 packs atleast if he charges sensi seed prices I'm good for 10 but I don't mind paying more for seeds from the original breeder.

 

[DIDM]

this is getting pretty funny


as of this point in time it is not possible to claim any strain as your own and have anyone give 2 shits about your claim


there are cup winning companies proving this year in and out



once the plant is freely given, it is like a weed, it just survives


I'd much rather sit down and smoke and talk about what the future holds, sitting there thinking about the past gets you nowhere

 

[kin_dawg]

i thought sam did have his skunk#1 seeds out through Seedsman.

 

[gloryoskie]

Okay.

If I win the lottery I'll continue breeding cannabis until the money runs out.

All kidding aside, how should I go about getting permission to use legit lines, or would it be in my best interest to only breed with personally acquired wild seeds?

I have the time and resources, either way. What say you?

 

[Cool Moe]

I say that I didn't ask permission but went ahead and hit sour boggle with a really strong sour diesel IBL and the progeny are tastier and more potent than any pack I've ever bought. I won't give it a cute name like Boggle D or sell it or act like I did anything special other than chuck pollen to and from nice plants. The only ethical violation I can see would have been to let that male go to waste and the cross to go unmade.

 

[southflorida]

I truly think that breeders like Sam and DJ Short have made and continue to make an enormous impact, but, evolution keeps pushing all of us forward, and as we evolve we eventually realize that it's all about "mutually-beneficial" interacting and co-operating with each other.

Not making a distinction between each other, but viewing the whole community as lovers of cannabis, we can truly make a difference on a global scale.

It won't happen fast, even though those two states in the USA have pushed the dominoes, but, no matter how long it takes, I'm convinced we will be able to grow and enjoy cannabis eventually without one person going to jail for it!

 

[Farmer John]

Oh man I love these threads!

 

[Useful Idiot]

Well I for one do not like the selling of untested strains. I mean come on!!!Some of you so called breeders are to fracken lazy and greedy to test the shit you are pumping out. $$$$$$$$ hungry. By the time folks get around to growing them out you have already made mucho denero. I chuck pollen ALOT. I have a shit ton of strains that I have crossed and will continue to do so. Should I become a vendor and get rich??? And don't tell me folks are not gettin rich.I give seeds away all the time FOR FREE,and I still take the time to test every cross. Here is a nice one for ya. Bogs Sour Bubble x Dutchgrowns Oger 99. This Oger male is an amazing fella. But what if he wasn't???? I will admit that I have also made mistakes in choosing a male and made a few shitty crosses. I found out by TESTING. Rant off. To the bud porn.

 

[Useful Idiot]

sorry...here is a better pic

sorry...here is a better pic

 

[frito bandito]

I truly think that breeders like Sam and DJ Short have made and continue to make an enormous impact

yeah thats for sure...for years to come we will still be culling out grotesquely distorted mutants, dwarf phenos, and bizarre freaks of nature, whose origins can all be traced back to dj short's frankenstein laboratory.

we need more breeders doing intelligent and natural selection from large numbers and open pollination via traditional methods, and less wanton destruction of cannabis dna via ridiculous and unnecessary levels of inbreeding.

in my estimation 96.2% of cannabis "breeders" today are absolute shit. sam is a notable exception. the problem is, people like him are currently few and far between. the market has been overrun by get rich quick schemes disguised as seed companies. hardly anybody is out there doing serious work. if they are, they aren't talking about it on here.

i look upon the breeding scene as it stands here in 2012 and find it wanting, big time. imo the best days of cannabis breeding are still to come.