Brand new 12' x 12' - Questions

[Harabec]

I just recently joined the board and wanted to say that there is quite a bit of very good information here, I had been lurking and reading for a while and wanted to run a few questions and ideas by you guys. I have spent a fair amount of time in my nearby grow shop asking questions and I have a good idea of what I want, just want opinions and input at this point.

I am building a 12' x 12' x 8' growroom, I just finished concrete 3 days ago and am planning the layout of the room before I begin framing. I did not want to focus so much on the specifics of room equipment, but more on secondary rooms, specifically the layout of secondary rooms within the main room:

Lung Room: My growroom does not have access to warm intake air, it must pull from outside, this will never change. I wanted to pull cold air from outside, run it across lights (debatable due to condensation), discharge into the lung room (where it mixes with air pulled from growroom/ballasts/timers and a small heater) and finally discharged into the main growroom. I wanted to preheat the cold winter air as much as possible, mix it with existing warmer air to decrease temp shock/fluctuations and then dump it into my room. Any ideas or opinions here? Currently the lung room as designed is 3' x 3' x 8'.

Veg Room: I have seen differing specifications and am unclear as to the size of room for Veg/Mothers. I am designing a 12 bucket/plant RDWC system, any recommendations on size of room for vegging? I do not have a requirement for perpetual harvest, can I just use the main room for vegging and switch lights when I transplant into RDWC?

Main Room: From my research thus far it seems fairly easy to fit a 12bucket system in a 12’ x 12’ room, given my space requirements for the lung and veg room, I might be close but it still seems like a good fit. Anyone have any opinions on this?

General Questions:

1.) I am pulling winter air, there is no way around it, my local hydro shop recommended a lung room and that’s why I have planned for it so far. My humidity will be tightly controlled, am I looking at a condensation issue?
2.) Must I have a separate veg room? I have no desire to start 12 more plants before the first 12 are done, doing so far exceeds my 12plant limit.
3.) How viable are conversion bulbs? Should I just buy different ballasts when I switch from MH to HPS?

Thank you for reading. I know I touched on a variety of topics here, ask me anything if more information is needed.

 

[Harabec]

I threw down this floor plan to illustrate a possible configuration, the lung room is sized to hold the relevant controllers and equipment. I made it a little bigger than necessary so that I can fit in there with a laptop and haev an area to work without leaving the room.

 

[Hammerhead]

#3 you dont need conversion bulbs if you buy ballast that run both hps and MH.

#2 no you dont need a separate veg room/area. if your not going to have starts before the first run is harvested..I have limits as well. 6 flowering and 12 baby's. I like having a veg area. This allows me to have plants going into flower when ever I want..

#1 I dont think you will have condensation. If you do get a dehumidifier. I pull in air from the outside. My room is 12x10. This helps me keep the room temp down.. I originally did not have as much outside air coming straight into the flower room. My central ac has a fresh air intake on it I used that. After adding another 1k I had to bring in more cool air to keep the room temps under control. I never had any condensation..

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Use insulated ducting... at least on that 1st stretch coming from the outside. This will prevent condensation and dripping. This will most definitely happen if pulling cold winter air through non-insulated ducting in a warmer room.

I think your idea sounds solid. Just make sure each "grow space" maintains negative pressure (ultimately pulling through a filter somewhere) so that you don't have any odor issues.



Your going to need some kind of veg space.. at least to root clones so that you're not starting from seed every run. Since taking clones off of your plants at the flip to 12/12 will root and have lots of time to veg before your flower room comes down, you'll likely want to just run at least 1 mother plant so that you can take clones off of it at a more appropriate time for the next crop if your not wanting a separate veg.

 

[Harabec]

Perhaps I will just stay with a small room set aside for the mother and simply take cuttings and grow them in the main room before transplanting to RDWC.

Given my floor plan, do you guys think I have the space to carve out another small area for vegging? How big of an area should I look at to veg at max 12 plants before transplant to RDWC?

I want to ideally utilize this room, now is the time to plan for it as I begin framing in 2 days. I am interested to know how other people would divide up this room.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Jamorg13]

I would just use the entire room. Veg in it, and when they are up to size, flower in it. No need for a veg if your only going to be using one at a time. Just get a clone hook and purchase 12 every cycle instead of a mother and cuts stealing from your count. That is the best way to stay in your numbers imo. I was allowed only 15 for a long time, until i became a caretaker and the ol lady got a rec. You must be in michigan?

 

[Jamorg13]

And whats your budget? Since your building the entire thing from the ground up, I am assuming you have a good chunk of dough to spend on this. Instead of the lung rooms and worrying about intake being cold/hot, why not just seal er up?

 

[lemonade]

Two 4X4 areas for 12 dwc's seems small to me. I would do one room, 6 lights, 3 on each side with 3 or 4 ft isle in the middle, sealed room, AC. Do you have experience with hydro? Stick to dirt perhaps if not and start slow, experiment with a light or two.

1.) If you don't have a sealed room there's no guarantee the dehum will keep your rh down. You could be pulling in humid outside air in faster than your dehum can handle it. Just seal the room and use an AC, the ac will dehum the room. Worst case add a dehum later.

2. )Don't need if you don't want a jump start on your next crop.

3.) Don't bother with them. Buy digitals that do MH/HPS or if you have magnetic hps ballasts you can remove the ignitor to convert it for MH operation.

Good luck!

 

[Harabec]

I would just use the entire room. Veg in it, and when they are up to size, flower in it. No need for a veg if your only going to be using one at a time. Just get a clone hook and purchase 12 every cycle instead of a mother and cuts stealing from your count. That is the best way to stay in your numbers imo. I was allowed only 15 for a long time, until i became a caretaker and the ol lady got a rec. You must be in michigan?

Yes, Michigan. This is my line of thinking as well. I like the idea of vegging 12 while flowering 12 but obviously a plant is a plant and the yall count, including mothers. One mother does take one from the primary count, but I like the idea of doing it all in-house.

And whats your budget? Since your building the entire thing from the ground up, I am assuming you have a good chunk of dough to spend on this. Instead of the lung rooms and worrying about intake being cold/hot, why not just seal er up?

Budget is around $5,000 total. I hope its lower but I am not pulling punches, I will build it as ideal as possible. The room will indeed be sealed, the lung room was a way of dealing with cold intake air. It is unclear currently how much the low temperature air will be heated up by the two 1k HPS lights. The lung room will have its own exhaust and be temperature controlled in that regard. It is all meant to stabilize the air being blown into the main chamber. In considering stable and consistent air temperatures, this should allow me to better control growth medium and water temperatures. Hope this isnt confusing.

 

[Harabec]

Two 4X4 areas for 12 dwc's seems small to me. I would do one room, 6 lights, 3 on each side with 3 or 4 ft isle in the middle, sealed room, AC. Do you have experience with hydro? Stick to dirt perhaps if not and start slow, experiment with a light or two.

1.) If you don't have a sealed room there's no guarantee the dehum will keep your rh down. You could be pulling in humid outside air in faster than your dehum can handle it. Just seal the room and use an AC, the ac will dehum the room. Worst case add a dehum later.

2. )Don't need if you don't want a jump start on your next crop.

3.) Don't bother with them. Buy digitals that do MH/HPS or if you have magnetic hps ballasts you can remove the ignitor to convert it for MH operation.

Good luck!

1.) The room is sealed, indeed I am betting against the dry winter air. I had not considering AC in the winter.. hmm. I would still need a fresh air intake, not sure how much the room's equipment will heat this cold air.

2.) I see from other posts and yours that its not truely needed, I might have a small room for the mother and thats all.

3.) Sounds good, I will get the scopp on that equipment when IU visit my shop this Monday.


Thanks! I have experience in growing in dirt, not with cannabis though. I am expecting a learning cycle here, but the engineer side of me wants to plan and learn as much as possible before I dig in.

 

[lemonade]

Maybe put a Tee on the fresh air intake duct and put an adjustable damper on it so you can mix warmer inside air with your cold outside air. Could even skip that and just put slits in the duct between outside and your room. Control the airflow with a inline fan on a thermostat. That way you don't even need a lung room. Or if you have a source of free water, use a small watercooled AC. No air in or out of your house that way.

Good luck!

 

[Harabec]

Maybe put a Tee on the fresh air intake duct and put an adjustable damper on it so you can mix warmer inside air with your cold outside air. Could even skip that and just put slits in the duct between outside and your room. Control the airflow with a inline fan on a thermostat. That way you don't even need a lung room. Or if you have a source of free water, use a small watercooled AC. No air in or out of your house that way.

Good luck!

Interesting idea, thank you. I still have the benefit of time, will consider this.

 

[lemonade]

Np. U can also do the same with the cold air coming in. Instead of having it just blow into your room run a duct down the length of the room and put slits/holes every ft or so so it slowly dissipates into your room, no "cold spots" that way. Also keep in mind how cold air from an AC can be, and that sure doesn't shock plants as long as your room is set up properly and isn't blowing directly on plants.

Good luck!

 

[Harabec]

I modified my original layout and added additional growspace for my 11~12 plants (similiar area). Each 16sqft will host 4 plants and be serenaded by its own dedicated 1kw HPS. After speaking with my local hydro shop and thinking about it further, I think it will be better this way rather than trying to stagger 11~12 in two 5' x 5' areas.



Anyone have any thoughts on this? I am two days away from finishing framing/electrical. Here is where I am now (pic doesnt show existing electrical or a shorter wall for the lung room).



My layout thus far seems to be the most efficient on space (while still providing for work positioning requirements). The 5x5 lung room will allow for better environmental control and regulation, allow two 2' x 2' spaces for veg and mother, as well as host all light/air/CO2 controllers.

As of last week I have 60amp subpanel installed as well as provisions installed for 220v and several 20amp circuits.

Anyone have any amendments to this layout or anything else I should think of before I close the walls up? Framing will be done tomorrow, most electrical done Friday, insulation/vapor/OSB done Saturday and Sunday.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Jamorg13]

looks great to me. Post up a journal when your up and running! Happy thanksgiving!