To "cook my soil mix" or not

[Gascanastan]

There you have it kids...proof. I shall tuck my tail in between my unedu-macated ass and go pout in defeat. Clearly I just don't know a thing about soil or micro-organisms.....or soil cooking ovens....anyone got a good brand. Maybe Whirlpool....or Frigidair????

 

[greenpinky]

There you have it kids...proof. I shall tuck my tail in between my uneductad ass and go pout in defeat. Clearly I just don't know a thing about soil or micro organisms.....or soil cooking ovens....anyone got a good brfand. Maybe Whirlpool....or Frigidair????

Its talking to a wall. No facts from the wall just lead paint.

 

[Gascanastan]

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhh yea George brain hurts.....cook soil in oven @ 250 ....got it~

 

[Microbeman]

Dr Higa is discussing mostly facultative anaerobes which do contribute to the soil microbial heirarchy but are mostly found at a lower level in undisturbed soils (important in no-tills). The exception is actinobacteria (mislabelled in the document quoted as actinomycetes) some of which are aerobic. These are the bacteria which produce that sweet earthy aroma.

The degradation of organic matter is not the same thing as nutrient cycling. There is a fairly good introduction on this page which can be followed up to your heart's content;
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/archive/jdeacon/microbes/thermo.htm#Top

The majority of nutrient cycling or the microbial nutrient loop occurrs through the predation (eating) of bacteria and archaea by protozoa, nematodes and in certain cases rotifers (maybe others). These larger organisms utilize a portion of the nutrients and expell a major portion converted to ionic form nitrogen & phosphorus (depending on species, etc) It is the ionic or soluble form which is required by the plants. (he says for the 100th time)

This normally occurs in the presence of living roots (rhyzosphere). There are other forms of nutrient generation in the rhyzosphere (nature always has a back up) but most of them necessitate the plant as an active participant.

If you are mixing up a soil which has undecomposed (uncomposted/unaged) matter that can generate heat then yes I agree it should sit (cook) until this thermal stage is over. This stage does not make nutrients bioavailable to the plants (AFAIK), rather it sequesters the nutrients into a form useable by bacteria, archaea and fungi which can then be cycled to the roots of plants. [not forgetting the other forms of nutrient uptake; root acids = DON & DOP; N fixing bacteria/archaea - which are secondary level AFAIK]

If you mix a soil with vermicompost or compost, some kelpmeal, rock powders, the tiniest bit of alfalfameal and drainage material, there is no need to 'cook'. If you put more than a tiny bit of alfalfa meal, bloodmeal, active fertilizers, manure, etc. there is a need to 'cook' to get over that thermal stage.

Edit: To be clear, by 'cook' I mean sit (and/or turn) until it no longer heats up.

 

[ICMaggotMe]

Its talking to a wall. No facts from the wall just lead paint.

Your copy and pasted "facts" don't support your absurd and outlandish statements. Actinomycetes do indeed inhabit the moderate temperature zones but you're talking of annihilating any and all organisms in an oven at 250`.

There's no need to get your panties in a bunch because you were called out....if cooking a soil casserole is what gets you the cannabis quality you desire, cooking with gas is much more effective.

Meanwhile, I'll let the microorganisms sort out the good and bad guys in my soil. I would also submit that your petty attacks on Gascanastan are unfounded.

You might even become enlightened if you could put your bias aside and read Gas's thread from start to finish. A lot of the contributors to his thread have real world horticultural and agricultural experience they share freely.

Lastly, as a peace offering I bought you this gift:

 

[greenpinky]

Thanks for that I.c. maggot........I'm only talking about heating up compost and pete moss to 250 to kill or set back Psychrophiles micros seeds, and eggs.,I'm looking to jump start the thermophile micros, will I kill the Mesophiles micros? Maybe, some don't know?, I'm saying how can someone tell me oven cooking old compost is dumb and doesn't work.. the micros I'm wanting thrive at that temp.or I'm wrong and a moron. My soil works great for me.....
Thanks microbeman for some soild info,

 

[Microbeman]

May be of interest to some;

http://www.ask-force.org/web/Bt/Fracchia-Bacterial-Diversity-2006.pdf

http://www.woodsend.org/pdf-files/JAM_solvita-sweden.pdf

 

[Gascanastan]

I love sterilizing spore seeds and bacterial-ness micro-able dirt mixes in my mom's oven man...dude....me likey...weeeee......

 

[jerry111165]

I cook my soil to get the the bacteria a start and to lower my soils p.h with ironnight and kill unwanted seeds and eggs.Remember don't cook soil with peralight. It stinks very bad... if u were to cook ur soil. Do it with ur basic ingredients on no higher then 250 for 2 hours. Add water to the process to ensure even steam/cooking... good luck
G.P

For real?

Edit: never mind - beatin' a dead horse.

J

 

[Gascanastan]

For real?

Edit: never mind - beatin' a dead horse.

J

This particular horse keeps moving....ya kick the shit out of it thinking it's going to die........NOPE. As long as those myths were created...they shall take 3x as long to dispel.

 

[jerry111165]

There is no need to mix a soil that needs to be cooked for great results

OrganicOzarks, are you saying that basic soil amendments such as kelp, neem and alfalfa should not have time to break down prior to planting for best results, or that we should just not use these items?

Just wondering.

J

 

[Gascanastan]

Now...I have very often mixed fresh mixes and planted directly into them with no problems....then again....repeating the exact same thing several times and once in a while have had issues due to this practice.

I'm one of the first guys to say.."allow ample breakdown time" ....and would not suggest to another to try planting in fresh organic soil mixes unless you are capable of dealing with the issues that uncomposted amendments create sometimes.

Can it be done..YES...would I suggest it....NO.

 

[jerry111165]

I'm not sure that I *could* deal with those issues. By planting too soon in the past I have personally made some funked up looking plants that grew poorly. By allowing the same batch to sit another coupla months the soil worked superb.

I've learned to just mix extra so that I'm ahead of the game and waiting isnt an issue.

J

 

[Gascanastan]

I'm not sure that I *could* deal with those issues. By planting too soon in the past I have personally made some funked up looking plants that grew poorly. By allowing the same batch to sit another coupla months the soil worked superb.

I've learned to just mix extra so that I'm ahead of the game and waiting isnt an issue.

J

Wurd...it ain't no fun....and makes for a stressful recovery.

Best thing to do is have two batches at all times.

 

[Gascanastan]

LMFAO.....solid organic soil info. here

....20+ years ago this silly cannabis gardening myth made it's way into the higher learning facilities of city colleges....thanks to Ed .....or someone else like Jorge.

http://doorgarden.com/01/easy-potting-soil-sterilization






.

 

[dank.frank]

"Many decomposers are killed or become inactive when pile temperatures rise above 140º F. If the pile temperature exceeds 160º F, you may want to take action and cool the pile by turning it. A number of research projects have shown that soil amended with compost can help fight fungal infestations. If the compost pile temperature goes above 160º F, the composting material may become sterile and lose its disease fighting properties."


http://web.extension.illinois.edu/homecompost/science.html
(The Science of Composting)


There is the proof that what you are suggesting, greenpinky, is BAD ADVICE. I wasn't attacking you and certainly wasn't being a "know it all" - but I will not allow you to pass on information that is detrimental to the original poster, or to anyone else that may be reading this thread.

Sorry. You are wrong. Scientifically. And in my opinion, even more wrong emotionally - no need to get in a tizzy when someone corrects you. These forums are here to help people learn. You ready to drop your ego and do that?



dank.Frank

 

[Gascanastan]

Wurd Frank~

...and if you KNOW me you'll know I'm just breaking your balls...but if you want blood....you got it.

...this isn't personal,it's more like I just can't fucking stand myth-based cannabis gardening crossing into the realm of actual real-life gardening in a fucking ORGANIC SOIL forum where I've been hanging out for the past 3 1/2 years...............and really,why would I do such a thing to put myself here in this position and take shit,get ripped off by my 'buddies',and continually type the same answers to peoples questions this long????? I dunno....

I've been submersed in the cannabis culture since I could crawl.....It's been a long road discerning what is absolute BS compared to fact. Mostly thanks to cannabis being illegal and decades past of High Times self-proclaimed pot guru's in a time when indoor cannabis gardening became something a person could actually do for the first time thanks to all the new fabulous HID lighting.

Then came all the BS .......and now almost 30 years later you still see people asking the same old question,"what's wrong with my plant?".......what's wrong with your plant is that fact that you are following cannabis gardening myth-based practices and avoiding basic horticultural and biological gardening facts.

Cannabis is not from another planet,...it's a plant just like grannies tomatoes. Treat it like yer little blue haired granny does and watch what happens.

 

[xmobotx]

lol; i feel kinda guilty now for using the term "cook"

maybe ruminate?

 

[Gascanastan]

lol; i feel kinda guilty now for using the term "cook"

maybe ruminate?

..yeah...me too. Unfortunately it's the term most associated with cannabis and mixing active soil.

I can and will try to refrain from using the term 'cook' myself...and just call it what it is.......a 'composted soil mix'...or 'un-composted soil mix'

But really...DON'T PUT A LIVING ORGANIC SOIL IN AN OVEN AND COOK IT...especially if you want to grow plants in it.

VERY rarely are there harmful insects and destructive pathogens in healthy soil....if you think you need to cook it in an oven,rethink this whole deal and start over with a new soil mix eh?

If you are freaked out about bugs,fungi,dirt,and all those little icky uncleanly things messing up some obsessive compulsive Howard Hughes trip......organic living soil isn't for you.

 

[dank.frank]

The terminology is perhaps confusing to some and I believe we've had the discussion before of not using it and instead using terms like "decompose" - as that is actually what is happening and why a medium begins to heat up in the first place...

That being said...all the heat a medium needs is provided naturally as the organic matter in the medium is broken down. A pile of dirt / compost can get too hot simply as microbial activity increases due to high organic content - in which case, is why a medium is stirred around / turned over.

I don't have a large grow and I am able to keep multiple batches of soil in various large rubbermaid containers - when first mixed, the containers actually get condensation on the lids and sides from the heat being produced as things begin to break down. This is usually 2 or 3 days after having amended a medium and continues for about a week...then things begin to level off a bit and cool down. By this point, though, I know my soil is full of microbial activity and can sit, undisturbed, for another month or so before it is truly ready to use...

I have also planted directly into a freshly mixed medium - but then as Gascan correctly stated, I do run into various problems....either burning and leaves twisting / getting bumpy, root damage from high soil temperature, a deficiency of some kind from lack of availability, generally slower growth than expected...If I properly allow a medium to decompose / "cook" - then none of those problems exist and I can simply water my ladies.

THE BEST part - is a properly composted medium is good to go for all stages of plant life. I put freshly germinated seeds into the exact same medium I use to flower them out in. I just don't know how it could possibly be any easier...

I agree 100% Gascan. I'd rep you but it says I gotta spread it around... either way, K+



dank.Frank