8 Plants x 8 Lights. Farmer's New Toys

[Bonzo]

i can relate to your problems FF...i too am an old hydro guy and after taking a break from growing for a couple years started usin' coco...i get/have the allmost exact symptoms that your plants show...very frustrating indeed...plants just dont have the vigor im used to...usually in early veg they look great then its the purpling of the stems...sorta droopy...just not happy lookin plants...whodare recomended CNS to me as well and i think im gonna give it a whirl...im currently runnin' X nutes...friend of mine gave me a bunch...i just started a test on 4 plants with H&G in sunshine mix...i dont like flipping when plants are not as healthy looking as they could be...i'll be flippin in next couple days regardless...im also gonna run 6/9 on a few test plants...

anyway thanks for all the infoand input from you and everyone in this thread,,,i'll be watching and learning..

oh and i am currently using the PH drops as well...how is your blu-lab workin?

thanks again

allmost forgot...i got some micro/bloom...is it 6ml micro 9ml bloom?

thanks again

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I hear ya...

Bluelab pH Pen works great. No nonsense.. tells you the pH. No drifting, etc. Now that I've got it I realize I really don't need it. 6/9 in RO water puts me at 5.9 on the money. On the drops I figured I was closer to 5.5 or so, so its good I got it to clarify what I'm doing here.

Yes - I'm running head recipe 6 micro / 9 bloom.

I do wanna get back into water culture, but coco has treated me well over the years without a lot of the fuss. Usually anyways.... they've both got their pros and cons. I liked hydro for its cleanliness and simplicity. I kept returning to coco for the sake of "keeping it safe" as well as allowing me more flexibility in perpetual crop rotation. Little quick veg areas are much easy with some coco pots under a light, vs having a scaled down mini hydro setup for hydro veg. I was better at keeping it flowing when in coco. In hydro I had to be much more strict in regards to plant numbers per round and making sure I had an adequate veg setup to keep my bloom room filled with a similar system to system transition. Yea yea.. I'm making excuses now.. hydro is where my heart is at. I like mediumless ebb and flow, but vertical as swayed my out of normal system options.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Believe we are on day 36 - how about a pic dump?

Shits moving along for the most part.

Blumat Res setup for feeding an upper rubbermaid tote.

Got two per tree. Havnt really spent the time to get them to work together as much as I'd like. A couple seem like they are "backups" if one is doing most of the dripping.

middle plant up on a milk crate. Need to get those other 2 shorter plants up on something now that we're going into full swell mode. Damn.. I'm such a procrastinator.

Big Lemon with that 8th plant (a.mango) sitting behind it.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

overtop Big Lemon shoulder

dehumidifier corner - Lemon ahead with a.mango donkey dick to the left.

a.mango cola.. couple of these on this strain. Liking it.

that pineapple express shrub in the middle. Up on a milk crate now. Didnt thin or do anything with this. Need to get my arms in there so she can breath.

Getting a lot of this on the Lemons only really just in the intense light areas. Is this deficiency due to the increased intensity in these areas or is it merely a result of too intense of light so close without fans under the lamps. Or is it something else like toxicity or lockout (K Def?) ? pH is 5.9 - 6.0. EC 1.2

 

[FlowerFarmer]

getting pretty bad on this back plant. Is this what you guys are saying is K toxicity from low humidity in those intense spots?

 

[Bennyweed1]

What is your Co2 ppm at? I had some plants not like 1300+ppm after they reached week 4 and up. Started showing symptoms like yours. I dont know though, if could be a number of things. Thats the one tricky part about blue mats, all the plants, same strain or not, will receive the same nutrient profile.

Im not a synthetic guy so I can not offer much help. Sorry amigo and good luck.

Edit*****

I read your first post and you said you were running an RO with the same filters. I dont know how long that entails but I ran into problems when pumping water through a dirty RO filters. I slowly changed a lot of things before I finally swapped all the filters and membranes and then my problems went away.

 

[high life 45]

WOW your rooms looks awesome! well done. I see a heavy harvest ahead.

When I have ran coco I had similar issues with my girls. I just gave them some epsom salts and it always went away. No matter what the issue looked like epsom seemed to fix them all...

 

[whodare]

Look like too much k exacerbated by low humidity.

K is taken up very easily. Ca, mg, and k all compete for uptake. Mg is the least competitive then ca, and then k is very readily uptaken.

Coco, especially reused, will have too much k, which, especially on days with high transpiration (ie low humidity), can lead to excessive k uptake causing burning, and deficiencies of mg first usually then ca.

The only solution is to bring the ratio of mg ca and k inline. In coco 3-2-1 is a good k-ca-mg ratio. So 150-100-50. You could raise mg to 1.5 or 150-100-75, I always side with more mg as I've never seen it cause toxicity within reason, plus mg is very important to flowering plants.

And I have to clarify my earlier statements, mg doesn't directly aid p uptake but it does aid p utilization within the plant.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

double post

 

[FlowerFarmer]

What is your Co2 ppm at? I had some plants not like 1300+ppm after they reached week 4 and up. Started showing symptoms like yours. I dont know though, if could be a number of things. Thats the one tricky part about blue mats, all the plants, same strain or not, will receive the same nutrient profile.

Im not a synthetic guy so I can not offer much help. Sorry amigo and good luck.

Edit*****

I read your first post and you said you were running an RO with the same filters. I dont know how long that entails but I ran into problems when pumping water through a dirty RO filters. I slowly changed a lot of things before I finally swapped all the filters and membranes and then my problems went away.

Thanks for the reply. Co2 PPM has actually been hovering around 1250. It fluctuates from around 950-1250 depending on when the generator is kicking on/or running. My RO filters are all new now (swapped sometime earlier this grow) as well as now passing through a tall blue pre-filter before going to the booster pump and merlin unit. I am having flow output issues caused by likely low inlet water temperature, but my filters appear to be in good shape. Unfortunately through dicking with it and not having it fully setup with the electronic float I think I may have caused damage to the booster pump. It is not the cause of my low output issues, but I've let it fill up one too many times without the cut off switch installed (just relying on the backup float) and now it is making a racket and doesnt sound good (instructions say specifically not to rely on the float valve to cut the unit down and that the e-switch must be used, but it was operating so slow that I was merely turning it off before full.. except a few days back I got wasted and forgot to turn it off). I'm still hitting 60psi, but pump sounds like its on its last leg now and doesnt seem to be throttling back/adjusting its speed as it used to. It will still be banging around, but only netting me sub 40PSI on the inlet at times and the pump isnt taking its normal thermal cutout rests. Can only blame myself for that.. I'm an idiot. I even have the electronic float switch - just hadnt installed it in this new place because I hadnt finalized my whole auto RO position/setup. I was wanting to set it up so that a few 55 barrels overflowed into each other before cutting off. $250 down the drain...need a new booster pump now.


Thanks whodare and high life.
So bumping my Mg might help facilitate a better ratio/balance of the other cations? Whats the best way to do this when using the 6/9 head recipe? Should I add 1g/Gal of Epsom and try that? I've refrained from trying anything yet because I don't want to screw up my 100+ gal blumat mix of 6/9. Can I simply mix up 6/9 with 1g of Epsom (?) and hand drench them really good?... leaving my 6/9 blumat reservoir untouched to pick back up with the watering as needed. Is this damage (yellowing) reversible or would it merely stop it from progressing?

I've heard mixed experiences with Epsom. Would I maybe benefit from doing a few hand waterings with 6/9 with the addition of a sugar/carb product. Something like FloraNectar which is 0-0-1 showing the following analysis:

Soluble Potash - 1%
Magnesium - 0.5%
Sulfur - .05%


I've seemed to have nothing but trouble running straight 6/9 at this spot (or too much Ca earlier on with my addition of CalMag possibly..plus I tried flushing with weak dose of calcium phosphate (bone meal) which is something I normally never do)..likely all related to my CEC and balance. Fucking around earlier on might have been giving them excessive Ca causing problems everywhere else. I've read that Ca excess can only be fixed by bring the other cations into balance to allow the plant to uptake the Ca.

Would I benefit from amending my coco with anything? Straight coco has done me right with the blumats not causing trouble, but are there beneficial amendments or additives (humics?) which might help things?

I didnt run drip clean this go because earlier it was mentioned that it might be contributing to my problems as I started in used coco (from a grow scrapped mid-cycle) that wasnt rinsed. I don't normally re-use my coco though so I would like to start using a few beneficial additives next round.

I've got lots of Micro/Bloom, Grotek Pro-Silicate, and Dripclean I'd like to start using. Should I hand water in some sugar/molasses type product from time to time throughout bloom or is this unnecessary as I'm not feeding microbes?

Oh.. I normally toss a 1-2mL/Gal Bloom Bastic in with my 6/9 around this time. I've done comparisons when growing horizontally in the past and the bloom bastic definitely seemed to help mass and size however I'm afraid to use it this time and potentially botch the grow with toxicity or something. I've been considering just doing a few hand drenched with 6/9 diluted..and bloombastic added to bring me back to 1.2EC, but this grow has been a bumpy ride so far so I'm not sure I wanna push them.


I've going to be really pressured for this harvest. I believe this will be coming down the last week of Nov. sometime, but I have to leave town 1st week of Dec for around 10-12 days. I'm worried I wont have enough time to monitor a proper dry/jar up. I can't leave them drying while I'm gone and risk extreme drying/brittleness nor do I just want to jar them up too early and not be around to burp them. I dunno...might be OK.. 65 days is around the 22nd of Nov. Would give me 10-11 days to get everything down/trimmed and dry enough to seal up.

Any suggestions? Take em early? Let them go? I'm not so worried about a 10-11 day dry.. I'm worried that I wont be able to trim them fast enough to give me that 10-11 days of actual drying. If it takes me more then a couple days to trim (solo w/ full time day job) I might be pushing it close.

 

[DrFever]

Hey flow everything looks great whats your ppm feeding in that one pic plants looks very hungry some plants prob want more then others i am guessing your excessive P is locking out other nutrients awesome work there buddy

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I've been giving everything 6/9 which puts me at 1.2 EC - 5.9pH in straight RO. Sometimes it might flash between 1.2 and 1.4 on my truncheon indicating I might be around 1.3EC.

I'm on blumats so everything is getting the same dosage. I'll likely get back into monocropping after this round. I was just using what I had here. The Lemons are exhibiting these issues more so then the others. The a.mango seems to be my healthiest with no issues. It is exhibiting the slightest bit of tip burn so I'm not wanting to push my res too much higher.

 

[bobblehead]

those plants are some beasts!

 

[whodare]

Pushing it close trimming all that solo is an understatement, your in for some late nights and a sore neck, and even then it looks like that room would take a week to solo trim with 8 hour days.

You crazy man lol.


Any in regards to the nutrients, for now I'd add .1ec epsom.

Then get yourself some coco specific nutrients, they really are different and will solve your problems. Some people get lucky with the 6/9 in coco some don't coco specific is for unlucky fellas like you and me.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

..

 

[high life 45]

I would mix 1g/gal and handwater it in. Probable a glass or so per a plant. Try one or two plants and see how they react first.

 

[TURBD]

What size glass should he use?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Ah shit.

Was messing with a blumat today that dried up. Had a tiny hole where my tubing must have got pinched or something further up stream. Dont know how that hell that happened.

Big problems though.. upon messing with it I noticed tiny ass pests crawling around everywhere. The are very tiny and never stop moving..and they are everywhere. They look translucent in color but they couldn't stay still long enough to count their legs or anything. I think they have little antennas too on their tiny kinda tear drop shaped bodies.


Look at google images they appear to be root aphids?
Damn.. one thing after another this grow. My T5 stuff isnt showing them and I havnt checked my circles room about to flip.

Off to go look into RA stuff. Anything recommended or that I should particularly avoid being I'm 36 days into flower?


Tell me something good..
Is it possible these are harmless soil mites that cause no damage?

 

[whodare]

Without a high res photo it'll be hard for us to ID them over the Internet, that's on you bud.

But, if you do ID them a RA's then your in a bad spot, can't really apply anything this late in flower, but half done you'd likely be fine, maybe a slight reduction in yield.

I've fought the bastards before, I hit them hard and from multiple paths. Imid, hotshot strips, spectracide triazicide. Imid knocks down feeders, and stays around to keep killing, strips keep flyers down to stop the spread, and triazicide is a contact kill.

The strips can be used in flower but the other two really should only be used on moms, or cuttings that are going to veg for a while.

Good luck man, I hate the bastards. I've fought thrips, gnats, aphids, and mites. Hands down the root aphids will do the most damage(thrips are bad too, but an easy kill) but gnats have seriously been the hardest to beat since imid doesnt touch them, even gnatrol and strips only keep them knocked down.

 

[high life 45]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960



I had the RAs bad.
First your going to have to clean hardcore, I mean really f ing clean.
My lady, my patient, his lady and I spent hours cleaning everything. Fans, trash cans, floors, walls, everything.


Thats a pic of RA that were in the sticker on the cord of my Vornado fan. Weeks after seeing any RAs....
I had the worst infestation I have seen ever.
I did not go nuclear on them because I am a medical grower. My patients are my friends, I cant put nasty shit in my room.

They are new to my area and I have heard of people completely scrapping grows and equipment and moving houses because of RA's.
I dont think these people cleaned as much as I did.

I put down 1x2s on the edges of my floor and sprayfoamed my entire grow. These buggers can hide anywhere.
I dunked every other day for two weeks, and set bombs off with the dunk. I found them hiding behind panda plastic from staple holes..

You need to keep them out of your veg and hopefully you will be able to phase them out like I have. Take cuttings and clone them in a separate location. I used my ezcloner and sprayed them with pyrethrin. they are veggin in a different location now.

Get some met52 keep it in a fridge after opening.
put this in all of your media from now on.
Botaniguard and evergreen for dunking, or you could water them in, I dunked everything multiple times. Eventually I cloned all my vegging plants threw them away, soil, smart pots and all.
Set off bombs outside your grow area as well.
tangle foot, this helps trap them
I have two yellow sticky cards per a plant. and will always have them from now on.
Predatory neematodes.
Azamax.



People have had success with hardcore pesticides, but i see alot of "growth was stunted for one month" or more... plus alot of the hardcore pest. stick around for 100+ days outside, they are systemic which means you will be smoking it, or someone else will.... Personally I couldn't do that to my friends but some people dont care.

Do some research before you use what others have "successfully"

Clean clean clean..

Find out where they came from, mine came from a clone a friend gave me.
No more clones from friends of friends.
Some people report that they came from soil or coco, brand new soil or coco.....

Seal your entire area. clean all around it. make sure they are not on plants outside your grow area.

This is a picture of me dunking my sourd plant, its hard to dunk a big smart pot.

When I dunked it was for an hour for each plant.

T

Behind the white duct tape that was holding panda plastic to the floor.

behind my co2 tank

I havent seen anyone with it as bad as I had..I was breeding them and didn't realize it till my floor was crawling with them....I harvested and dont have them anymore, I did not use hardcore pesticides.

Good luck and be prepared to put in some serious work, Your def gonna want to use the rotor to trim if you have to do all the work I had to do.

Clean and bomb.

One flyer can start your problem all over again.


Ed rosenthal had good advice and did not go nuclear.

"Root aphids are a serious problem and they are not easy to get rid of. A serious infection occurred in a controlled indoor plant nursery. We never discovered how the infection began. No outdoor plants were ever admitted except as bare cuttings that were first quarantined; new plants were started in synthetic planting mixes and only sterile planting mixes were used. Nevertheless, the very agile hard coated black insect, 1/16" in length, invaded the rooting medium and could be seen scurrying into hiding. It was identified as an aphid, but I thought looked more like a beetle.
Three ingredients were used to eliminate the insect under the "zero tolerance" policy of the nursery.
Liquid pyrethrum concentrate was mixed into the water/nutrient mix. Pyrethrum is an organic pesticide refined from flowers in the chrysanthemum family. There are a number of brands available in nurseries and garden shops but you may have to go online to find a liquid concentrate.
Botanigard is a specific virulent species of fungus that infects soft-bodied insects. When a possible host insect brushes against the fungus spore, the spore attaches itself to the insect. Then it grows hyphae, which are simple thread-like filaments, into the body of the insect and starts feeding on the insect. When the insect dies it releases more fungus spores that are ready to germinate when they come in contact with a suitable host such as another root aphid. It is available at a few shops and online.
Beneficial nematodes are microscopic carnivores that attack all kinds of insects in all stages of growth. Once the nematodes come in contact with the insect, whether adult or pupae, it is walking dead. After the feast, the nematodes do just what you'd expect, so thousands more hungry nematodes enter the scene looking for a good meal. They are available in both garden shops and on the internet."