Well I have been researching and reading posts about how to keep the ph stable in my reservoirs. My city tap is about 150 ppms and around 7-7.5 ph. I expermented by mixing up a 5 gal bucket of nutes and adjusting the ph everyday to see if the ph would ever stabilize. I dont use airstones anymore bc I heard with canna nutes not to. everyday the ph would jump up by .3. Then I read a post that said to use ro water. Does RO water keep ph stable? What do you guys do to keep the ph at a stable 5.8?
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keeping ph stable with blumats
- Thread starter vein5
- Start date
RO should remain much more stable.
I mix up in a 55 gal barrel (lands me at 5.9 pH) and then pump to my designated elevated reservoir of choice. I wont have to touch the elevated reservoirs and the pH has always been the same as when I sent it up there.
Gotta be something in your tap causing the pH to rise...or perhaps a specific additive causing the fluctuation.
I mix up in a 55 gal barrel (lands me at 5.9 pH) and then pump to my designated elevated reservoir of choice. I wont have to touch the elevated reservoirs and the pH has always been the same as when I sent it up there.
Gotta be something in your tap causing the pH to rise...or perhaps a specific additive causing the fluctuation.
D
DHF
Welcome Bro....FF`s spot on about somethin in your tap water bein the culprit.....
The biggest plus about runnin R/O water is that you control what your plants eat without the variable of not knowing what`s in your tapwater.....
I ran R/O for many yrs till I went full out coco DTW and found out how much of a cal /mag whore the medium is and some plants are and went with 50/50 Tap/R/O , but to answer your question , R/O does not keep your ph stable but rather your nutrient mix and how your plants react to it and use their juice does......
Many folks use hard water mixes that take care of runnin tapwater by the cal/mag additions , but I always ran R/O and knew what the plants were drinkin from the get.....
Coco`s CEC/Cation Exchange Capacity deems notice that the plants will receive calcium and magnesium and not give it back to the plants until a certain level has been met , so this is something to watch for as in yellowing and or rust spots on the leaves......and then....
After stretch is over , coco will latch onto potassium as well and fuck with swellage during mid-late flower until dialed , so potassium silicate supplements in the form of botanicare`s silicablast and or protekt are a plus for stem wall strength and protection against limbs snappin under their own weight in late flower....
Holler if I can help.....DHF.....
....
T
TribalSeeds
Not a damn thing!
Dont use tap if you dont want to mess with PH.
Use RO and add silica first. Its also an amazing PH up. Just add the proper amount first or your res might get cloudy.
I usually mix to about 5.5 and let it drift to around 6.0 or so. No need for adjustments with DTW.
A large grow can get spendy with RO water..Theres a lot of waste.
In my experience the plant your growing tells you all you need to know.
Is the pH is going to drift slowly from a start point to out of desirable ranges.
Some plants are iron efficient some aren't this make a big difference in what/how you have to feed them.
Plants will drink or eat, ideally you want the E.C to get weaker and the pH to rise daily.
This will be dependent on the nutrient solution salinity as well as the alkalinity/acidity of the solution, because water is logarithmic reactions occur with its carbonates and your chosen nutrient solution and problems quickly arise.
Here is a link about water and pH.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/184ph.html
Is the pH is going to drift slowly from a start point to out of desirable ranges.
Some plants are iron efficient some aren't this make a big difference in what/how you have to feed them.
Plants will drink or eat, ideally you want the E.C to get weaker and the pH to rise daily.
This will be dependent on the nutrient solution salinity as well as the alkalinity/acidity of the solution, because water is logarithmic reactions occur with its carbonates and your chosen nutrient solution and problems quickly arise.
Here is a link about water and pH.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/184ph.html
But none of that applies here... as we are not talking about recirculating systems.
Were talking about pre-mixed nutrient batch that is intended to sit until used.
Were talking about pre-mixed nutrient batch that is intended to sit until used.
I understand you point, but what are you on about, it's all about the water then the base mix then the plants can feed themselves with blumat's.
Carbonates in the water are killers of fertilizer salts period. In a big rez with an untested schedule any bad mix it can be costly if gone wrong.
It is best practice to mix the nutrient solution with 50% RO & add 50% Tap/rain as a base to achieve the target pH or what ever % ratio works best where you are. Practice helps so will proven formulas.
I use over 1000 blumats on the nursery, they clog if your not up to scratch, and dry out.
We mainly run rainwater through them as our feeds are controlled at Time/dated intervals.
DHF says Coco can be a bastard and there is many ways to skin a pig and grill it.
I hate waste.
Sorry, wasnt trying to argue your reply or anything, just wasn't trying to confuse the op with the whole EC dropping/ph rising rhythm that we see in a recirculating system.
Unless your talking about in the root zone of already fed solution from the blumat res.. or maybe I'm mis-understanding your post.
In terms of ph stability in the drain to waste reservoir.. are you saying that pH will be more stable with a 50/50 mix rather then straight RO? Or that the straight Tap is "killing" aspects of his mix, causing a drop in EC and rise in pH?
I've always ran straight RO and my mix never seems to fluctuate over the 1-2 weeks its takes for the blumats to suck it down. Would it benefit me in some way to cut 50/50 with well water or rainwater?
Sorry if my initial reply read wrong.. wasnt intended that way..just wasnt trying to confuse the OP with what I took as hydroponic/recirculating advice. He should be able to mix his blumat res and be done with it was all that I was trying to say. Monitoring EC in a blumat res should be unnecessary after you know the EC/pH that you always mix to.
You wont see any type of EC drop in a blumat tank as its drain to waste..right?... the plants are getting whatever your offering them from the above reservoir.. they don't have any choice in the matter.
Unless your talking about in the root zone of already fed solution from the blumat res.. or maybe I'm mis-understanding your post.
In terms of ph stability in the drain to waste reservoir.. are you saying that pH will be more stable with a 50/50 mix rather then straight RO? Or that the straight Tap is "killing" aspects of his mix, causing a drop in EC and rise in pH?
I've always ran straight RO and my mix never seems to fluctuate over the 1-2 weeks its takes for the blumats to suck it down. Would it benefit me in some way to cut 50/50 with well water or rainwater?
Sorry if my initial reply read wrong.. wasnt intended that way..just wasnt trying to confuse the OP with what I took as hydroponic/recirculating advice. He should be able to mix his blumat res and be done with it was all that I was trying to say. Monitoring EC in a blumat res should be unnecessary after you know the EC/pH that you always mix to.
pH is rootzone where i'm from.
If you have ever tried to grow petunias b4 you'll know about absolute dial-age. (Too nuch N and the Blooms drop off)
pH is defiantly more stable with 50-50, it will be most stable with pure RO as there is no reactions occurring, all good except plants can't hack it for long, they need chlorine for photosynthesis which is cheap in tap water, Boron may or may not play a significant role in the uptake of particular nutriments that effect photosynthesis and key nutrient uptake involved with Ca/MG which occurs with hard water.
If your plant of choice likes pure R.O and the wallet don't feel it then there is probably no advantage to ad 50-50 other than being environomical about water usage. You need to have a safe rain water harvesting strategy and test it regularly before mixing it as a base. R.O units have come along leaps and bounds in recent years and are quite efficient but considering the Cannabis plant is an agressive weed and tolerates many cultural conditions it's when the costs come in some ways seem better than others.
There is no nutrient exhaustion in DTW if there are no fluctuating water reactions.
His tap water as you said is "killing" aspects of his mix, causing a drop in EC and rise/drop in pH.
Regular tests of the rhizosphere will tell all you need to know about pH, you may need to adjust 1 or 200 blumats you never know until it is tested.
But remember Blackmans law and chaos theory when monitoring EC of a Reservoir because regular calibration and checks are essential.
I was not offended dude nor was I trying to mislead anyone. My skill in writing with comprehension of English language is limited.
I prefer myself to grow on a tailor-made soil-less coco-coir mix with a few ameliorants added for extra Kick-ass Kiss. Hand drenched, Foilar and Topdressed with blumats FTW.
(I suppose I should of said ideally you want the E.C to drop off and get weaker once an Ideal nutrification level or CEC has been reached allowing the pH of the fertigation to creep in the media as plants feed).
With no run off is it still DTW??
If you have ever tried to grow petunias b4 you'll know about absolute dial-age. (Too nuch N and the Blooms drop off)
pH is defiantly more stable with 50-50, it will be most stable with pure RO as there is no reactions occurring, all good except plants can't hack it for long, they need chlorine for photosynthesis which is cheap in tap water, Boron may or may not play a significant role in the uptake of particular nutriments that effect photosynthesis and key nutrient uptake involved with Ca/MG which occurs with hard water.
If your plant of choice likes pure R.O and the wallet don't feel it then there is probably no advantage to ad 50-50 other than being environomical about water usage. You need to have a safe rain water harvesting strategy and test it regularly before mixing it as a base. R.O units have come along leaps and bounds in recent years and are quite efficient but considering the Cannabis plant is an agressive weed and tolerates many cultural conditions it's when the costs come in some ways seem better than others.
There is no nutrient exhaustion in DTW if there are no fluctuating water reactions.
His tap water as you said is "killing" aspects of his mix, causing a drop in EC and rise/drop in pH.
Regular tests of the rhizosphere will tell all you need to know about pH, you may need to adjust 1 or 200 blumats you never know until it is tested.
But remember Blackmans law and chaos theory when monitoring EC of a Reservoir because regular calibration and checks are essential.
I was not offended dude nor was I trying to mislead anyone. My skill in writing with comprehension of English language is limited.
I prefer myself to grow on a tailor-made soil-less coco-coir mix with a few ameliorants added for extra Kick-ass Kiss. Hand drenched, Foilar and Topdressed with blumats FTW.
(I suppose I should of said ideally you want the E.C to drop off and get weaker once an Ideal nutrification level or CEC has been reached allowing the pH of the fertigation to creep in the media as plants feed).
With no run off is it still DTW??
I got ya.
Didnt know using tap could actually cause a drop in EC as the solution sits.
So your saying one needs to test the rhizosphere to determine if things are getting used properly leading to the rootzone EC dropping w/ gradual pH rise that we are looking for?
How does one do this (testing the rhizosphere?) and pinpoint that ideal EC level and when to start diluting down the blumat res to ensure I'm not getting lockout/toxicity mid-flower? Its easy for me to understand this in hydro where I can simply watch the numbers of the recirculated res. In blumat/coco I'm just really following others and trying to watch my plants if I should weaken my mix or not.
Do any amendments to be included in a coco mix help facilitate maintaining proper cation exchange capacity?
Didnt know using tap could actually cause a drop in EC as the solution sits.
You've got my attention! I'd say no on the DTW..The blumat system without the occasional hand-water to run-off is what I cannot wrap my head around. Doesnt it ultimately lead to problems? Is dripclean (as recommended all over the place here for blumats) really the magical answer or is it a cheap fix?
So your saying one needs to test the rhizosphere to determine if things are getting used properly leading to the rootzone EC dropping w/ gradual pH rise that we are looking for?
How does one do this (testing the rhizosphere?) and pinpoint that ideal EC level and when to start diluting down the blumat res to ensure I'm not getting lockout/toxicity mid-flower? Its easy for me to understand this in hydro where I can simply watch the numbers of the recirculated res. In blumat/coco I'm just really following others and trying to watch my plants if I should weaken my mix or not.
Do any amendments to be included in a coco mix help facilitate maintaining proper cation exchange capacity?
Bud Spleefman
Member
You need to calculate how much clean (R/O) water you need a day, and compare that to the output of whichever R/O machine you buy. If you only mess with your grow a couple times a week, and your R/O machine cleans 50 gal a day, and you have something that can hold 100 gal, and you can set-up a float valve to turn off the R/O when the 100 gal tank is full, you are set. I've seen lots of floods when growers get their first R/O set-up, so keep an eye out for that, I don't think they shut off just because the res gets full.
T
TribalSeeds
The Stealth 200 will clean the water faster than the 100.
Usually a flood is caused by a loose or improperly installed float falve. Make sure its put on straight and its tight. I use plumbers tape.
The stealth units are good units.
I believe both the 100 and 200 units have a auto cut off thing on the back of them that will cut your intake supply once pressure is felt on the clean water line. This allows you to use the simple 1/4 float valve as suggested above to ensure you don't flood your collection barrel.
A word of caution if using another brand which may not have this thing... even with a float valve many of them will fill up, but continue to run and send water down the drain without the auto cut off to sense the pressure from the float.
For instance.. the stealth you'll just need the float valve as it already include the little cut off box. Others.. (like the spectra pure) will need the auto cut-off thingie in addition to the float. This could be the different between a $15 float and a $50 kit.
Like this:
I believe both the 100 and 200 units have a auto cut off thing on the back of them that will cut your intake supply once pressure is felt on the clean water line. This allows you to use the simple 1/4 float valve as suggested above to ensure you don't flood your collection barrel.
A word of caution if using another brand which may not have this thing... even with a float valve many of them will fill up, but continue to run and send water down the drain without the auto cut off to sense the pressure from the float.
For instance.. the stealth you'll just need the float valve as it already include the little cut off box. Others.. (like the spectra pure) will need the auto cut-off thingie in addition to the float. This could be the different between a $15 float and a $50 kit.
Like this:
Same thing happened at one of my warehouses...
The odd fluctuation spike was happening to me because of what the water company was using in the water at the time, it was just getting into winter...
As seasons change, water companies change what they put into there water to account for water runoff from streets, rivers, whatever...
Usually when they start changing the mix, is when the ph fluctuations start....
I would just adjust my res low the day before and it would be perfect when I would go water the next day...
After a few weeks, the water didn't ph fluctuate anymore...
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