LED Mythbusting, KILL A WATT proof

[joesmithjoe]

Let's take a look at this for a second, and examine what a typical panel will draw, based on the chips used.

Around ~97.3% of all LED panels (within a Standard Deviation of ±1.34%) that people are using for growing...originate in China from the same ~dozen factories, all employing Epistar, SemiLED, and Bridgelux chips, or a close variation of.

(See, folks? 'Statistics'...)

In figuring a rough, estimated draw, my first guess was 'it's probably going to be around 70% red, 20% blue-green, and 10% IR')...

...and after blowing up a close-up of the Bloom panel and counting the actual LEDs used, turns out this # was accurate. Here's what I got from the ol' eyeballs:

• 200 Red
• 58 Blue/Green (16 green, 42 blue)
• 30 Infrared

(By the way, using green in an LED panel...is a dumb idea.)

By the way, GSL's site lists the same 550w draw for both their 'full spectrum' and their 'bloom' panel - even though a typical IR chip uses less than half the volts as a blue, green, or white, at the same current.

Very improbable - unless you're also taking out additional reds and back-filling with a precise number of blue and white, for example.

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Most of the typical panels used around this time where the 'designers' (i.e. Marketers, usually with little or no actual knowledge of either LEDs - or plant physiology, for that matter - who were simply submitting RFQs to China manufacturers for drop-shipping) and were pushing the thermal management capabilities of these '3w' designs to their limits (eventually curtailed by the engineers, who know better, hopefully)...generally ran them @ ~500mA, which is ~43% higher than typical '1w' levels...in the same 1w boards using similar heatsinks and fans. Bad idea.

(The Grow LED Hydro/'Spectra' 2010 panels, etc. are a good example of this).

Using these chips, here is about what you'd expect to draw at this current, including for the eight fans used in the design, which employs a standard 12x24 (i.e. 288 chip) board:

View Image


So, using the typical emitter packages employed by these factories, at 500mA, you'd be getting something pretty close to what you've found, B.

Depending on how 'dirty' the power grid is in your area, your intra-day readings may vary within several watts, but no more than that.

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Ok, so that's pretty typical, with these low-to-mid-grade chips. Now, if this panel was using good chips (CREE, OSRAM, LUXEON, etc.), and drawing roughly the same power from the circuit, what current would they have to run at in order to achieve this?

View Image

Using good, 1st-grade chips, one of the things you'll notice is that not only are they able to run at a lower forward voltage (Vf) than their competitors at the same current (a characteristic of all good chips), they also have less voltage drift as current increases - which makes them markedly more efficient, too.

Note that you're able to run these chips at ~70mA more (570 vs. 500), and still pull the same number of watts, which is impressive.

(Incidentally, if you're running all the LEDs on the same driver, which most of these models do, 570mA is about the highest current you'd want to run any particular string at, due to the performance characteristics of red LEDs.)

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So with a better chip, with this particular example, one might also infer that it's possible to:

• Run them at the same current (500mA), and use almost 50 fewer watts (!) (and a lot less heat), and still get more usable light, vs. your typical Epistar/SemiLEDs; or
• Run them at the same power (405-410w), and get TONS more light! (and still get less heat, due to increased conversion efficiency)

-------------------

Ok, so...what if they were actually running these panels at "3w" (i.e. 700mA), "Balls To The Wall" levels - a decision which would rank right up there with going into the ghetto at night,starting a land war in Asia, and Lindsay Lohan's acting turn in Herbie Fully Loaded?

View Image

(Note the forward voltage creep on these LEDs @ 700mA, vs. CREE/LUXEON - i.e. 3.8v vs ~3.3-3.4v for white/blue/green, and 2.7v vs. ~2.3v for red. That's a HUGE difference.)

Hmmm...apart from being able to fry an egg on the heatsink and having sparks spittin' off in all directions and setting the curtains on fire (which "all good growrooms have in 'em"...right?), looks like you'd get right around 600w, while it lasted.

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Just be glad you're not actually drawing more - otherwise, that would be horrible for your thermal management, and thus your longevity.

But...yeah, they really need to update their site.

Here, let me help...I've got this ball peen hammer handy that should just about 'do the trick'.


Cheers,

-SX

I have two lighthouse blackstar 180w pannels with the removable cord. If you were to replace the thin aluminum panel in them with a nice thick heatsink, could you up the amperage and have them live? If for example they pulled 500ma and you upped it to 700ma would they live as long as they are kept cool enough?

 

[rupertb]

-

 

[vukman]

By Request...14W panel........advertised that is

By Request...14W panel........advertised that is

Hello everyone:

By special request, I am putting this panel in here.

It is a small LED panel which is usually found on Ebay and is advertised as a 14W panel.

I use the 'Blue Planet" tester only because I am in Canada (Greater Toronto Area) and could not for the life of me find the real "Kill-A-Watt" tester unless I ordered it from Ebay.

The panel pulled 7W when first started up and rose to 8W after around 5-10 minutes being on.
The amperage draw is 0.07A.

There are a few more images if you want to see them which are contained in my albums in the 'Random' album

<add edit>.......I have it on good authority that this panel is very good for cloning. Medmaker420/Aardvark is using it and says roots appear around the 5 day mark....Of course there are always outside influences which affect cloning other than just the light but seems as though this panel does the job quite nicely.

Thank you

 

[GP73LPC]

thanks for the updates fella's...

these will be going into my LED retailer spreadsheets

 

[oneshot]

Kessil H150 Magenta model. The P3 tester measured .3 when I had it plugged into the wall.

Advertised W: 30 (http://www.kessil.com/products/h150_led_grow_light.php)
Actual: 32.3 (factored in .3 reading)

Sorry for the shitty pic though!

 

[GP73LPC]

Kessil H150 Magenta model. The P3 tester measured .3 when I had it plugged into the wall.

Advertised W: 30 (http://www.kessil.com/products/h150_led_grow_light.php)
Actual: 32.3 (factored in .3 reading)

Sorry for the shitty pic though!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=37854&pictureid=974549View Image

thanks much...

i have updated my spreadsheets too !!!!

 

[medmaker420]

excited for leds in 2013!

there are so many options these days its EPIC

 

[Aeroguerilla]

man i cant wait to start growing all my own veggies on my solar panels off the grid using LEDS and aeroponics. FUCK YA! no more shitty old veggies from the grocery store just free veggies from the basement!!

what do you LED pros recommend for a 5x5 area? plan is to have 2 lights per 5x10 tent

 

[Desert Hydro]

they finally came in!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waited around all damn day. normally ups gets here at noon. of course today not until 5pm. suck it ups lol.

first impressions. packed well. no broken parts. feel solid and heavy in a good way. i can see the heatsinks inside. thats good. first fire up and they are bright as hell. hitting from 171-180W on the kill-a-watt meter. did i mention these were bright?? i put on tanning goggles and i was still seeing spots. no, the tanning goggles arent mine. fuck off lol. dont judge me.

i cant wait til they kick on at 9 so i can get some up and running shots.
thanks to big sky over at medicinal lighting!! at ~45w per sq ft i will be killing it in that tiny tent.

 

[medmaker420]

they finally came in!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waited around all damn day. normally ups gets here at noon. of course today not until 5pm. suck it ups lol.

first impressions. packed well. no broken parts. feel solid and heavy in a good way. i can see the heatsinks inside. thats good. first fire up and they are bright as hell. hitting from 171-180W on the kill-a-watt meter. did i mention these were bright?? i put on tanning goggles and i was still seeing spots. no, the tanning goggles arent mine. fuck off lol. dont judge me.

i cant wait til they kick on at 9 so i can get some up and running shots.
thanks to big sky over at medicinal lighting!! at ~45w per sq ft i will be killing it in that tiny tent.

Sounds great and can't wait to see what sort of yields you can hit with these panels.

 

[GP73LPC]

they finally came in!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waited around all damn day. normally ups gets here at noon. of course today not until 5pm. suck it ups lol.

first impressions. packed well. no broken parts. feel solid and heavy in a good way. i can see the heatsinks inside. thats good. first fire up and they are bright as hell. hitting from 171-180W on the kill-a-watt meter. did i mention these were bright?? i put on tanning goggles and i was still seeing spots. no, the tanning goggles arent mine. fuck off lol. dont judge me.

i cant wait til they kick on at 9 so i can get some up and running shots.
thanks to big sky over at medicinal lighting!! at ~45w per sq ft i will be killing it in that tiny tent.

thanks man...

would you update my LED MYTHBUSTING thread in my sig with these kill-a-watt totals?

i will update my retailer spreadsheet... thanks

EDIT: what an idiot i am, i just realized what thread this was posted in...

 

[Darious]

http://www.blackstarled.com/34343.html
Draws 223watts from the plug

http://www.blackstarled.com/24blclandve.html
Draws 124watts from the plug

 

[medmaker420]

http://www.blackstarled.com/34343.html
Draws 223watts from the plug

http://www.blackstarled.com/24blclandve.html
Draws 124watts from the plug

have you ran these before?

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Off Brand EBAY 300 Watt LED 2012

Off Brand EBAY 300 Watt LED 2012

I gotz me one of them there Kill a watt things...
Gotz me a LED in my arsenal as well... so....

Great thread GP73LPC as all your links are just full of Gold Nugs o knowledge.

So I gotz me a Ebay says from texas yet... lol

Shes a...

Max 6-300W LED Grow light

LED Color: 2 - Reds, 2 - Blues, 1 - White and 1 - Orange (Ratio:6:1:1:1)

LED Configuration: 288 /2 Watt LED Bulbs:192 Reds, 32 Blues, 32 White & 32 Oranges

Wavelength: Red=640nm to 680nm, Blue=450nm to 460nm, Orange=630nm, White=

8 LARGE Built-In Cooling Fans
Light weight - only 24LBS

Found on Ebay in 2012 With a buy now $460 and I got her for $250

Hooked up the kill a watt a couple times now.

Hangs around 280 w for a half hour then settles on 259 w solid.




If ya wants AMPS and such. Letz me know..

Again... Great threads bro...

Peace...

 

[GP73LPC]

thanks so much AD

 

[Phychotron]

My kill-a-watt just broke. Was logging the electricity of this flower cycle and today the lights were off a few hours into the day. I added a few more lights to bring my total to 1550w of LED. I guess that's too much for it on a continuous basis.

anyone know about fixing these devices, like maybe its just a fuse or something...

 

[burnbradburn]

I'm new to the forums, I like the idea of this thread so I figured I'd share my killawatt evidence, too.

Recently received a Black Dog Platinum XLU, growing some white berry kush. I guess I should put a link in my signature, but you can check it out in Grow Diaries.

So my light reads at 779 watts, website says 750watts.

 

[GP73LPC]

thanks brad, gonna check out your grow.

 

[GP73LPC]

thanks brad

 

[oneshot]

I'm new to the forums, I like the idea of this thread so I figured I'd share my killawatt evidence, too.

Recently received a Black Dog Platinum XLU, growing some white berry kush. I guess I should put a link in my signature, but you can check it out in Grow Diaries.

So my light reads at 779 watts, website says 750watts.

Blackdog is really starting to step their game up. It's really nice to see. That 750 watt panel on the Growershouse channel looked awesome.