Looking to vertically move two 150 hps bulbs 12-14 inches.

[Vernal Equinox]

these days i use flip boxes as my light movers. you can have 2 lights running on a simple 2 light flip. switch from A-B every 3 hours, 1 ballast no pulleys, no moving bits. easy peezsy DIY for a 2 light flip (and @ 150W...cheeeep)

Thanks, GP, but a flip wouldn't help me here, as I want both lights on at the same time for the entire 12 hour lights on. See above post.

 

[village green]

Hi village green,

Were you doing this in a restrictive area like a cab? The problem as I see it is that I'm going to need to "double back" to get to where I need the bulbs to drop...maybe some drawings will help.


In this first drawing, there is a direct line as you suggest. Due to where my bulb needs to drop, it would limit the mover to only around a 12 inch run either side of center, but I want to run @ 22 inches either side of midpoint.


[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39828&pictureid=957601&thumb=1"]View Image[/URL]


To get the full 20-22 inch run on either side, I think I'm going to have to use two pulleys for each side; one at the end of each run, and one directly over where I want to drop the bulb.


[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39828&pictureid=957588&thumb=1"]View Image[/URL]


Does this make sense? How would be the best way to route the pulleys, as I don't want them to jump track...are there special pulleys that will enclose the wires holding the bulbs?

Your second drawing makes sense for your situation. You don't want to use the socket cord to hang from. Have the cord suspended on a hook out of the way of the bulb with enough slack to stretch up and down. On the bottom of your light rail motor there should be an eye bolt. I just tied appropriately sized ropes from there to my pulleys.

 

[Vernal Equinox]

Thanks again.

How did your vertical mover work out? Any problems to look out for? Did you see/calculate a difference in yield?

 

[village green]

Thanks again.

How did your vertical mover work out? Any problems to look out for? Did you see/calculate a difference in yield?

I've thought about your setup again. Your first drawing will work.
As your mover travels to the left it drops the bulb from the pulley 24" and then travels 24" to the right. As it does the bulb on the left pulls back up to the pulley and the bulb on the right drops 24". Ad infinitum.

I had no problems with mine except keeping plants tied back to keep from touching bulbs. Your yield will be less than two vertically stacked bulbs but much more than one stationary bulb.

 

[ItsTopShelf]

ya dude.. just go to home depot and look around.. for stuff that wont allow it to move.. and id put something on there as a backup.. just incase anything fails.. u could use somesort of timer.. to get the lights to move up stop and down.. stop.. on both sides. u just gotta time everything right lol

 

[Vernal Equinox]

I've thought about your setup again. Your first drawing will work.
As your mover travels to the left it drops the bulb from the pulley 24" and then travels 24" to the right. As it does the bulb on the left pulls back up to the pulley and the bulb on the right drops 24". Ad infinitum.

I had no problems with mine except keeping plants tied back to keep from touching bulbs. Your yield will be less than two vertically stacked bulbs but much more than one stationary bulb.

Thanks for sticking with me here, VG!

I really don't think the first drawing will work; I'll need to be convinced. The red slashes represent each foot on a four-foot track, and remember that the bulbs needs to drop only 12 inches from center-point of the 48 inch track to be in the center of my tubes. In the first drawing, as it moves to the left, the left bulb will drop the first 12 inches, as the right bulb raises 12 inches. But then as the mover continues left another 12 inches, both the left and right bulb will raise 12 inches (this occurs with the rope/wire threading backwards through the left pulley). The pulley is the pivot-point for the 90 degree drop, so if you go past that point at 12 inches, no more drop, right?

Maybe I'm not seeing something obvious. That said, I see few problems arising with the second drawing. I plan to use plastic swivel pulleys with plastic-coated wire, as I saw in another thread here doing vertical on a mover. He had trouble with metal pulleys and bare metal wire, with both squeaking and loss of traction issues. I think they were corrected with these changes.

 

[village green]

Thanks for sticking with me here, VG!

I really don't think the first drawing will work; I'll need to be convinced. The red slashes represent each foot on a four-foot track, and remember that the bulbs needs to drop only 12 inches from center-point of the 48 inch track to be in the center of my tubes. In the first drawing, as it moves to the left, the left bulb will drop the first 12 inches, as the right bulb raises 12 inches. But then as the mover continues left another 12 inches, both the left and right bulb will raise 12 inches (this occurs with the rope/wire threading backwards through the left pulley). The pulley is the pivot-point for the 90 degree drop, so if you go past that point at 12 inches, no more drop, right?

Maybe I'm not seeing something obvious. That said, I see few problems arising with the second drawing. I plan to use plastic swivel pulleys with plastic-coated wire, as I saw in another thread here doing vertical on a mover. He had trouble with metal pulleys and bare metal wire, with both squeaking and loss of traction issues. I think they were corrected with these changes.

[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39828&pictureid=957801&thumb=1"]View Image[/URL]

Do you only need 24" of vertical movement?

 

[Vernal Equinox]

Do you only need 24" of vertical movement?

Well, I need 20-22 inches vertical movement on each side (of the light mover), so 40-44 inches total. I changed-up cabs from 31 x 20 x 70 to a 48 x 20 x 70, around my third or fourth post...sorry for any confusion, but I haven't been medicated in an entire week!

So yes, I'll need the 40-44 inch vertical movement, although I am now considering two static 150's at the base and two on movers above it (only used after plants get higher than the static lights)...OR perhaps there's an elegant way of connecting the two sets of 150's inline (like double cool tubes) on the mover, and only plug the upper two lights in when plant height dictates. You see, the mover's going to perform double-duty for me, as the static lights last time made me vigilant about keeping buds away, or else I burned the tips of the best tops. These will give me a little more leeway on closer plants, if the bulbs are constantly moving. With 50 feet of scrog screen filled, things get pretty busy quickly, but it's a nice problem to have.

I'd prefer to rig the two sets of bulbs up without cool tubes, if possible (the lighter the load for the mover, the better is my thinking)...ideas?

Thanks again for bouncing around ideas...this isnn't a mind-grow here; I'm starting to put this together next week after final design gets approval by the board of directors (me, lol).

 

[Vernal Equinox]

Double post...didn't realize I can edit now my new nic is over 50 posts...

 

[village green]

Well, I need 20-22 inches vertical movement on each side (of the light mover), so 40-44 inches total. I changed-up cabs from 31 x 20 x 70 to a 48 x 20 x 70, around my third or fourth post...sorry for any confusion, but I haven't been medicated in an entire week!

So yes, I'll need the 40-44 inch vertical movement, although I am now considering two static 150's at the base and two on movers above it (only used after plants get higher than the static lights)...OR perhaps there's an elegant way of connecting the two sets of 150's inline (like double cool tubes) on the mover, and only plug the upper two lights in when plant height dictates. You see, the mover's going to perform double-duty for me, as the static lights last time made me vigilant about keeping buds away, or else I burned the tips of the best tops. These will give me a little more leeway on closer plants, if the bulbs are constantly moving. With 50 feet of scrog screen filled, things get pretty busy quickly, but it's a nice problem to have.

I'd prefer to rig the two sets of bulbs up without cool tubes, if possible (the lighter the load for the mover, the better is my thinking)...ideas?

Thanks again for bouncing around ideas...this isnn't a mind-grow here; I'm starting to put this together next week after final design gets approval by the board of directors (me, lol).

That is a nice problem to have. I think where you might be getting confused is your idea of having a center on your light rail. There is no center. The "center" is your motor that moves left and right 24" or however much length you need. Does that make sense?

 

[Vernal Equinox]

That is a nice problem to have. I think where you might be getting confused is your idea of having a center on your light rail. There is no center. The "center" is your motor that moves left and right 24" or however much length you need. Does that make sense?

I'm referring to "center" as being the orientation of the mover when in the midpoint of the 48 inch track, and then I need 22 inches movement on either side of that point.

 

[village green]

I'm referring to "center" as being the orientation of the mover when in the midpoint of the 48 inch track, and then I need 22 inches movement on either side of that point.

Let's just think about one side for now. You have let's say 26" of rope tied to a bracket on the top of your bulb socket. Take the end of the rope through a pulley and tie to the eye bolt on your mover. Your mover travels from the end of your rail toward the other end a distance of 24" As it does it pulls the one bulb,which started in the lowered position, upwards 24" At the same time, it lowers a bulb on the other end in the same fashion. So, two ropes of equal length from the motor going to two bulbs. Rinse...repeat.
Your pulleys don't have to be perfectly parallel with your rail. Offset them from it so you can position pulleys as wide apart as you need.

 

[Vernal Equinox]

Let's just think about one side for now. You have let's say 26" of rope tied to a bracket on the top of your bulb socket. Take the end of the rope through a pulley and tie to the eye bolt on your mover. Your mover travels from the end of your rail toward the other end a distance of 24" As it does it pulls the one bulb,which started in the lowered position, upwards 24" At the same time, it lowers a bulb on the other end in the same fashion. So, two ropes of equal length from the motor going to two bulbs. Rinse...repeat.
Your pulleys don't have to be perfectly parallel with your rail. Offset them from it so you can position pulleys as wide apart as you need.

VG, I really appreciate the input, but i think you're missing an obvious point; if i position two pulleys where they need to be for the "drop" of the bulbs (in the center of my two chicken wire tubes), they will be @ 24 inches apart, as pictured here. Think of the 4 foot track, divided into quarters, and from left to right the first red slash is 12 inches, the second 24 ("midpoint" of the track), the third 36, and the last 12 inches makes 48. I want to use the entire run of the track (or 24 inches on each side of midpoint) for the vertical run...all 48 inches (less the 4 inches I'm allowing for the width of the mover itself, thus 22 per side of the midpoint.) Each bulb will be moving 48 inches up, then 48 inches down.


In the first drawing, when the run to the left side gets beyond the 12 inch red slash to the end, it will no longer be dropping the left bulb; it will in fact begin raising it again (as well as finishing raising the right side bulb the final 12 inches vertically). As far as I see it, to get 48 inches total run on the bulbs, I'll need pulleys 48 inches apart so the mover can use the entire length of the 4 foot track (again, less the 4 inch width of the mover itself, which is where I'm getting my 44 inches vertical movement from).



The only way I see I'll get 48 inches of vertical movement is if I have one set of pulleys at the ends of the 48 inch track, then another set of pulleys "doubled-back" to where I need them to be over the center of the tubes, at approximately 12 inches and 36 inches positions (from the left). It's a 1:1 ratio, so if I want 48 inches of bulb movement, I'm going to need 48 inches of light mover movement, right?

I think the confusion might be arising from my use of "midpoint" and vertical movement on each "side". If so, my bad. In the second drawing, with the mover in the center like it is, the bulbs would each be at two feet in height (or "midpoint" of the 4 feet of vertical flowering space in the cab), so as the mover moves left, the left bulb drops and the right bulb raises two feet (until mover hits the stop). then the mover starts to the right on its 48 inch run.

I want to thank you for the conversation; this has been a very productive thread for me. I have figured out the mover aspect of my grow, and because of something you said I believe I will definitely be using four 150's instead of just two on a mover. Either I'll have two static bulbs at the bottom, then two on a mover covering the 2.5 feet above the statics, or I will have two 150's inline (like a double cool tube setup) per side on the mover, and only plug the top two lights in as the plants gain enough height to require them. I'm looking to push the limits of this cab design, as I know from the first run years ago that it can produce huge. It was my first grow, and using the design in my avatar, I got at least 9-12 zips not knowing wtf I was doing. Thanks again.

 

[village green]

VG, I really appreciate the input, but i think you're missing an obvious point; if i position two pulleys where they need to be for the "drop" of the bulbs (in the center of my two chicken wire tubes), they will be @ 24 inches apart, as pictured here. Think of the 4 foot track, divided into quarters, and from left to right the first red slash is 12 inches, the second 24 ("midpoint" of the track), the third 36, and the last 12 inches makes 48. I want to use the entire run of the track (or 24 inches on each side of midpoint) for the vertical run...all 48 inches (less the 4 inches I'm allowing for the width of the mover itself, thus 22 per side of the midpoint.) Each bulb will be moving 48 inches up, then 48 inches down.
[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39828&pictureid=957601&thumb=1"]View Image[/URL]

In the first drawing, when the run to the left side gets beyond the 12 inch red slash to the end, it will no longer be dropping the left bulb; it will in fact begin raising it again (as well as finishing raising the right side bulb the final 12 inches vertically). As far as I see it, to get 48 inches total run on the bulbs, I'll need pulleys 48 inches apart so the mover can use the entire length of the 4 foot track (again, less the 4 inch width of the mover itself, which is where I'm getting my 44 inches vertical movement from).

[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39828&pictureid=957588&thumb=1"]View Image[/URL]

The only way I see I'll get 48 inches of vertical movement is if I have one set of pulleys at the ends of the 48 inch track, then another set of pulleys "doubled-back" to where I need them to be over the center of the tubes, at approximately 12 inches and 36 inches positions (from the left). It's a 1:1 ratio, so if I want 48 inches of bulb movement, I'm going to need 48 inches of light mover movement, right?

I think the confusion might be arising from my use of "midpoint" and vertical movement on each "side". If so, my bad. In the second drawing, with the mover in the center like it is, the bulbs would each be at two feet in height (or "midpoint" of the 4 feet of vertical flowering space in the cab), so as the mover moves left, the left bulb drops and the right bulb raises two feet (until mover hits the stop). then the mover starts to the right on its 48 inch run.

I want to thank you for the conversation; this has been a very productive thread for me. I have figured out the mover aspect of my grow, and because of something you said I believe I will definitely be using four 150's instead of just two on a mover. Either I'll have two static bulbs at the bottom, then two on a mover covering the 2.5 feet above the statics, or I will have two 150's inline (like a double cool tube setup) per side on the mover, and only plug the top two lights in as the plants gain enough height to require them. I'm looking to push the limits of this cab design, as I know from the first run years ago that it can produce huge. It was my first grow, and using the design in my avatar, I got at least 9-12 zips not knowing wtf I was doing. Thanks again.

Hey my bad. I thought you only needed 24" total vertical movement. Will be following your grow. Good luck.

 

[Vernal Equinox]

Hey my bad. I thought you only needed 24" total vertical movement. Will be following your grow. Good luck.

Thanks, man. Talking to you just got me an additional 3-4 zips, reminding me why I used four 150's the last time.

Be safe.

 

[GanjaPharma]

Thanks, GP, but a flip wouldn't help me here, as I want both lights on at the same time for the entire 12 hour lights on. See above post.

ok yes i missed that, you would need 2 ballasts and 4 light flip.