8 Plants x 8 Lights. Farmer's New Toys

[FlowerFarmer]

Ok,

Here is a bit of a picture timeline of what I got going. Everything is getting 6/9 daily.

After rooting I go into solo cups with holes in the bottom, straight Bcuzz coco, take 6/9 to run-off daily. No problems here.

Future deathstar mom in 5.5" Pot. Healthy overall.. but starting to twist a bit.

Then once out of solo cups I normally get under HID pretty quick and they start blowing up. Usually into 2gal root pots. They get to about this size and I start seeing the orange spots and twisting. Vigor has decreased, but the plants still growing at a quick pace. I do need to get them off of the floor, but dont want them sitting in saucers with pooling run-off either. Right now my bit of run-off just dries up.. or runs to a drain on the other side of the foam wall. I am wicking to the concrete as their is moisture under the fabric bag.... so I guess I should get em up on something. I checked into some of that fluorescent grid sheeting, but it was super expensive for as much as I would need. Any other ideas? I've ran bags on concrete floors in the past, but now that I think of it ..it was painted concrete rather then raw porous concrete like this.

damn picture limit..

 

[FlowerFarmer]

seeing this on the hid side of the plant.

But rather most importantly..
my flowering sealed tree room is showing some of this, but only really parts facing the HID lamps directly.. the stuff in intense areas of light. Should I try to back them off the lamps, or is this just a def due to the increased need for food or something?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

But I cant just post the all bad.. so we'll end with some trunk shots.

 

[catman]

Definitely not enough humidity for the high temps, especially those closet to the lamp. The growth looks pretty damn green to me as far as nitrogen feeding. Your plants will finish fine, but they grow slower and yield will be lower. Sure makes for some potent stuff for it's weight though. Be sure ya don't dry it out too quick.

 

[Jamorg13]

Ph is honestly irrelevant, alkalinity is more important and he is running ro' which is why I say lockout from excessive k.

I monitor my ph in my hydro only to see how the plants are eating and it can show rot problems before you see them.

I know it goes against everything on ganja sites, but I've run my ph from 5-7 in rdwc no problems. But as soon as I use my tap water that has ~80Mg/L alkalinity I have ca/mg/k problems regardless of ph.

pH is irrelevant? Alkalinity is more important!?! That is a complete oxymoron in itself. A low pH is high alkalinity..

 

[Trewarin]

Sit them in a catcher of some sort with tubing to take run-off, and a small layer of lava rock to raise them out of their own filth.

 

[whodare]

pH is irrelevant? Alkalinity is more important!?! That is a complete oxymoron in itself. A low pH is high alkalinity..

Ph and alkalinity are two different measurements.

The ph scale slides between acid and alkaline, but alkaline water isn't necessarily high in alkalinity.

Alkalinity measures the waters capability to nuetralize acid, usually measured in Mg/L CaCo3.

They are very different, and yes, alkalinity will fuck you up before wild ph numbers will.


FF,

Those plants look good, I'd say under those hid's your problems might be coming from low humidity, what are your temps and humidity?

If the differential in temp/humidity is too great the plant wants lots of water with les nutrients to keep leafs happy. Over fertilization exacerbates the problem, but your only feeding at 1.2ec.

Maybe try adding the Epsom, but then cut it down to 1ec for the first days under the big lights, and keep those bulbs 3 feet or more away or dial them back if you can. Hopefully that will acclimate them and keep them from going haywire under the big lights.

 

[catalyte]

Definitely not enough humidity for the high temps, especially those closet to the lamp. The growth looks pretty damn green to me as far as nitrogen feeding. Your plants will finish fine, but they grow slower and yield will be lower. Sure makes for some potent stuff for it's weight though. Be sure ya don't dry it out too quick.

i'm with Catman and Whodare on this,

seen this before a number of years ago, last time i ever ran coco. Too hot and dry so the plans transpire too much which leads to VPD, and that has the plant scrambling to get enough P and Mg to support photosynthesis... and since the conditions are stressful VPD will have the plant starving for P and Mg!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

whodare, so what does one do with high alkalinity?


I've derailed my thread a bit because Im focusing on the issues I'm seeing in my other room (although my bloom room still shows worsening Mg I think..near the intense lamp zones), but for what its worth the temp and humidity appear good.

Temp is 79F - Humidity is 50% - or at least that is what my hygro-thermometer says when wedged into the branches of a plant. Perhaps I'm dealing with a bit lower RH in more intense zones, but overall temp seems good. Leaf surface temp is 79-80max with IR temp gun anywhere I check.

Everything is on Blumats now so hopefully that might help me out. (had 10 cracked caps due to soaking/storing in water with caps on)..?? soaking without caps now. (thanks Rives!)

Snagged up a Bluelab pH. pH wasnt too far out there...maybe a hair high. I had been knowingly bumping it up recently to try to help accommodate more Mg uptake (shooting for yellow on my drops). Turns out I might have been more like 6.2 when testing with the meter. I've corrected everything to around 5.9


Co2 stopped in my sealed bloom space.. damn propane tank had ran out and I didnt realize it because my SPC-1 is sort of hiding amongst my trees. Not sure how long co2 has been around 500 instead of the 1200 targeted.. likely around 3-4 days.. possible a week. Will be re-filled tomorrow.. hopefully doesnt hurt me too much.

Having RO troubles...getting horrible flow all of a sudden and cannot figure it out. PSI is good... filters are pretty damn new (and look clean upon inspection).. tried all sorts of configurations and locations (my thread is in the equipment forum). Good PSI... poor output.. around .2GPM which is about half of what I was getting. I'm at a loss...tried everything..RO woes are driving me crazy. Is a .6 EC well water totally unusable or should I get an analysis on it and possible give it a try?


Welp.. thats all I got for you guys. Hasnt really been smooth rolling with me. Hope I harvest some decent poundage. They seem to be frosting up nicely.

Been working on a 2nd project. Two 1800w tents w/ adjust a wings. Likely all blumatted. I'm merely assisting in setup and hoping head recipe/blumats/coco takes them far. I'm sure it will.

Got some new covert 60 Gal collapsible tanks for this spot so we weren't seen carrying blue barrels or a lot of trash cans in. They are pretty damn slick. Little pricey..but great for quick hit n' runs. Tryin' to keep 'stuff' to a bare minimum when you never know how permanent a situation will be. If it wasnt for damn carbon scrubbers I can damn near get all the gear in discreetly in small boxes/bags. I like that.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Sit them in a catcher of some sort with tubing to take run-off, and a small layer of lava rock to raise them out of their own filth.

Don't know why anybody would neg rep ya for that advice. Maybe 'filth' was too filthy of a word for them.

If I actually run this room large tree style like this again I was wanting to get some hot water tank pans/catch basins for under each plant. With only 7 plants I should be able to keep the tubing organized.

HD looks to have poly pan with below specs for around $11 x 7 = $77

• 26 in. ID x 28 in. OD
• 2-1/2 in. high sides

Anyone use using anything else cheaper?

 

[Incognegro]

VPD?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Likely it..

My 4 circles room is around 38 RH - 79-80F. I think I'm just gonna flip this room.. need some cold air intake so I can turn them to 1000w and throw a 600w in the middle (power limitations).

I guess I should look into making one of those foggers out of a tote and ultrasonic fogger that I see pictured here?

Is that the solution to VPD? 60% humidity throughout veg dropped as low as possible the final weeks of flowering to prevent the rot?

 

[Incognegro]

lol, no i was asking what is VPD

 

[whodare]

Vapor Pressure Deficit.


On alkalinity, look up acid injection for high alkalinity.

Essentially you use nitric or sulfuric acid to bring the alkalinity down. If you know the alkalinity you can figure the stoichiometric ratio of acid to add. If you don't know the alkalinity you can add the acid slowly until you reach and stay at 4.2 ph iirc.

They use acid injection in large nurseries and such where ro water is less feasible.

 

[bobblehead]

Keep your humidity 10% below the temperature farenheit... ie 60%rh and 70F, 70%rh and 80F.

 

[catman]

Anyone use using anything else cheaper?

HD has similar sized 'pans' for mixing mortar. Probably not much cheaper, but maybe look for em.

I guess I should look into making one of those foggers out of a tote and ultrasonic fogger that I see pictured here?

Is that the solution to VPD? 60% humidity throughout veg dropped as low as possible the final weeks of flouwering to prevent the rot?

I've yet to see anyone with such a large garden use a fogger, but that's just what I haven't seen. Ultrasonics discs can be expensive, wear out, and I believe the real problem is that they can put too much damn moisture into the air. Commercial units are not much and I believe the name I've seen thrown around is HydroFogger.

You may consider looking into "whole home" humidifier or swamp coolers. Because your room is sealed, you should be able to get the humidity up, but the more pressing issue is cycling the stale air for fresh air which you can do in an entirely sealed room..by using a dehumidifier if you don't already have ACs keeping RH in check.

Google "VPD Chart" and you should be able to find one. What you should notice is how the need for RH rises greater as temperatures rise above 70F. At 70F the chart calls for about 65% which is also around the humidity level were carbon filters stop working efficiently so please keep that in mind. bobble's rule of thumb is probably good enough, but I just wanted to make it clear that the relationship of temperature to RH to maintain VPD is not linear.

Even if you can't get things perfect, you will see much better growth especially during vegs. Maybe you could create a smaller veg chamber to make it easier to maintain VPD for veg and then for flower. You will NEVER want to keep humidity as low as possible, but higher levels definitely increase the chances of mold if you don't have proper ventilation throughout the plants. Your plants look pretty great already, but all of this will put the weight on. Best wishes.

 

[bobblehead]

No, you should use a whole house humidifier. I've made a humidifier with a tote and an ultrasonic pond fogger, and it works well... but it requires changing out the discs regularly, and it requires electricity. The whole house humidifier can be fed from your RO waste water if you like... assuming your RO runs all the time like mine. I have the humidifier running with no controller in veg, and the air pretty much picks up the humidity it needs, and with active exhaust, I almost never get above 80% humidity. Normally it's around 70%. I have controllers... It's just easier to have the humidifier run 24/7 in veg using waste water.

Can you tell I'm high?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Thanks guys,

Will look into my humidification options.

Humidity isnt really a problem in my sealed room. Right now I'm not running my max wattage for the split unit so it can still allow humidity levels to rise. I've got the sante fe dehumidifer on stand by for those dark cycles late in bloom. Rot is my worst nightmare. This is my 1st sealed space, but previously I've got it every grow in my larger tops.


My VPD issues (I think you guys are spot on there) are more related to my 4 circles room where I am running exhaust.. and intaking from the basement "utility" area. This is where my humidity is low and needs some work. I'll look into the whole house humidifier and dig up in your thread how you're running it bobble.


I just got some new filters and think I may have rigged things up not ideal. I've got a Max 14" and a Max 10". I figured since in the sealed space I really only needing scrubbing I'd throw the Max in there on this smaller 10" Phat filter I've got and use my larger Max 14 on the exhausted space on a new Can 150 I've got.

Sounds good right, but I think I had better exhaust power with the Max 10. The Max 14 is bigger, but looking at the canfan chart falls off much quicker to nearly nothing after certain length/resistance is achieved. I'm currently pumping the exhausted room into my cold air return and dispersing the heat throughout the house. Because of this I think I'm choking the 14 out more then the 10 was.

Might need to unfortunately drop the Max 14 w/ 150 and put it in my sealed room while I use the Max 10 w/ phat filter to exhaust my 4 circles room.

 

[TGT]

I always seem to get that low humidity problem when I have my plants in small pots early in veg. When I put them into the larger pots the added water it takes to saturate the soil makes the humidity high enough to correct the slow growth. It eventually is perfect as soon as my plants get to a certain size. Now I veg for two different locations in this room so by increasing the numbers of small pots to double I don't have that low humidity problem early in veg as I had previously. Just my 2 cents worth. Nice grow by the way - looks as though they will turn out good in the end.

TGT

 

[LEDNewbie]

I was going to add that if your checking humidity in between foliage it will show higher than it actually is. I've been told to check humidity above the canopy and all around the room with several gauges. You may actually have lower room humidity thank you already think???