Bone Cancer patient and Cannabis.........any experience??

[brotherindica]

Hey IC!





I'm starting to help a new patient this week. They have bone cancer, and have been told it's terminal. They would like to try cannabis due to complications from large quantities of opiates. Still getting patient's information, so should have more history soon.




I have quiet a bit of experience helping others with autoimmune disorders with cannabis. That said, I have very little direct experience helping those with cancer.



I'm planning on starting them on stronger hybrids, OG's being the top of my list, and edibles. Doses starting small and increasing, especially small with initial edibles. Nausea, vomiting, and pain being the primary concerns for now.



I've switched to vaporizing and won't go back. So I plan on getting them a vape, so smoking won't be necessary.



Anyone have suggestions???

I'm hoping strong flowers and edibles work for now. If things go well I may introduce oil/errl in a few weeks. I've thought about making tincture for myself, so may try that soon as well.






Thanks for the help IC!!!

 

[Sat X RB]

I went to hear an AIDS specialist speak (I was a member of a palliative care group) and he said that cannabis is especially good for masking bone pain.

he referred to the aids wards in his hospital reeking of cannabis but did not address how to medicate for bone pain. (because cannabis is illegal here.)

of course if yr Patient is willing to experiment it won't take long to find out what suits him/her best.

more power to you ... !

 

[brotherindica]

I went to hear an AIDS specialist speak (I was a member of a palliative care group) and he said that cannabis is especially good for masking bone pain.

he referred to the aids wards in his hospital reeking of cannabis but did not address how to medicate for bone pain. (because cannabis is illegal here.)

of course if yr Patient is willing to experiment it won't take long to find out what suits him/her best.

more power to you ... !

Thanks Sat!

Appreciate the info.













Little update. I met the patient. They have an aggressive form of non-Hodgkin lymphoma, which has spread to the bone. Very inexperienced with cannabis, but appears to be a quick learner and eager to try it in various forms.


Pain is their primary complaint. Along with a desire to wean down heavy opiate use. I gave them 1/2oz Scott's OGK and dozen STRONG edibles to start. They would rather smoke initially vs vaporizing too. Crossing my fingers and hoping it offers them some relief.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Strains with the highest CBD ratio will, most likely, be most beneficial.

Look into making HAO or Simpson Oil... all the info is on here. Smoking is minimally effective, it takes large doses to be truly effective. They'll most likely go through a tolerance building phase the first few weeks.

They need a LOT of cannabinoids in their system... constantly.

Stay Safe!

 

[brotherindica]

Strains with the highest CBD ratio will, most likely, be most beneficial.

Look into making HAO or Simpson Oil... all the info is on here. Smoking is minimally effective, it takes large doses to be truly effective. They'll most likely go through a tolerance building phase the first few weeks.

They need a LOT of cannabinoids in their system... constantly.

Stay Safe!

Thanks for the ideas!


Unfortunately, being in a non-med state makes some of this difficult.

I have a very nice genetic selection, but unable to get bud lab tested to analyze THC/CBD ratios. Really like the idea of Hash Oil/Simpson Oil, but the shear amount of raw product needed to make it is a limiting factor. I just don't have 1-2lbs+ bud/sugar leaf ready too often to make enough oil to really start that as a treatment.



Edibles are likely the best bet for now, the ones I gave them have 2g+ bud in each edible. Since they have absolutely zero tolerance, we're starting things small. Smoking to "break the ice" so to say, edibles working their way up.



As much as I believe in cannabis as a treatment, I'm not holding any hope this will reverse/stop/cure their cancer. Sorry if that sounds cruel, but I'm simply being realistic.

They have had radiation, 5 different types of chemotherapy, and stem cell treatment from several of the best hospitals in the USA. This treatment has lasted several years. All treatments have failed and doctors have told them to stop chemotherapy since it has become ineffective. Their prognosis is very, very poor.




At this point my goal is palliative care, hospice if you will.

Keeping pain down, making life as enjoyable as possible, and keeping them happy. I'd gladly do anything if I felt it would truly make a difference in their outcome. That said, they don't appear to be long for this world. Just doing what I can to make life easier.

 

[paladin420]

The Simpson type oil is really the best I hav found for my terminal patients.. Use any and all parts of the plant if you can not gather enough bud. And you do not have to make a pound at a time... don't let perfect be the enemy of good

good luck. you have chosen a tough road brother

 

[Hydro-Soil]

They have had radiation, 5 different types of chemotherapy, and stem cell treatment from several of the best hospitals in the USA. This treatment has lasted several years. All treatments have failed and doctors have told them to stop chemotherapy since it has become ineffective. Their prognosis is very, very poor.

Their immune system is severely damaged. I don't have much hope for them either.

Their best bet would be a gerson diet, vetted for their blood type according to the D'Adamo food lists.... along with simpson oil in the recommended dosage. Approximately 60cc in as short a time as possible.

Without that... they're literally just prolonging their death. Sucks, but that's oncology for you.

I with them the best of luck and kudos to you for doing what you can.

Stay Safe!

 

[mr.brunch]

best wishes... i hear many good thing about simpson oil, as others have said. maybe make a smaller amount?

 

[brotherindica]

The Simpson type oil is really the best I hav found for my terminal patients.. Use any and all parts of the plant if you can not gather enough bud. And you do not have to make a pound at a time... don't let perfect be the enemy of good

good luck. you have chosen a tough road brother

Thanks Pal!


Going to try to make some oil in the next few weeks.

Their immune system is severely damaged. I don't have much hope for them either.

Their best bet would be a gerson diet, vetted for their blood type according to the D'Adamo food lists.... along with simpson oil in the recommended dosage. Approximately 60cc in as short a time as possible.

Without that... they're literally just prolonging their death. Sucks, but that's oncology for you.

I with them the best of luck and kudos to you for doing what you can.

Stay Safe!

Thanks HS!

Should be able to make a small batch of oil in a few weeks. Going to try it then.

best wishes... i hear many good thing about simpson oil, as others have said. maybe make a smaller amount?

Thanks Mr.Brunch. Good call, along with the others. I'm going to make a smaller batch fairly soon. Hopefully it produces favorable results.











Little update.


I knew the patient was concerned about anxiety from cannabis, but didn't know they had such a history of anxiety/panic attacks.

They are rather sensitive to most medications. Even anti-anxiety meds such as Xanax, which are supposed to reduce anxiety, often raise their anxiety. This makes things interesting.



They consumed a very small portion of an edible, under 1/4, as instructed. They also happened to dose their Dilaudid heavy and later then usual, coinciding with the edible's effects. This sent them in to an intense 3-4hr panic attack. Pain wasn't decreased either. Certainly not the effect I was hoping for.


After learning this information, I'm taking thing very slow with them. Starting smoking w/1-2 hits at a maximum, SLOWLY working up. The goal being to decrease their sensitivity while building up cannabinoid levels. Hopefully they will be able to tolerate the Simpson Oil in a few weeks doing this. Right now I'm afraid the potency of the oil may be too much for them.

 

[paladin420]

I know of one patient who had a bad attack with RSO and dilladid. Possibly the combination is the problem. She is strait freakin NUTZ so is kinda hard to say.
I use a large animal syringe. (looks like a pistol) then the doses can be kept very small.
.06 of a gram is where I start. Be careful using sativa's .I forgot once, It was everything bad u read about sat's times ten. Paranoia? Nope sense of impending Doom. Racey? Like a heart attack.

This whole thing just pisses me off. BrotherI it should not come down to some stoners experimenting in their garages. Tryin to find answers here.

 

[brotherindica]

I know of one patient who had a bad attack with RSO and dilladid. Possibly the combination is the problem. She is strait freakin NUTZ so is kinda hard to say.
I use a large animal syringe. (looks like a pistol) then the doses can be kept very small.
.06 of a gram is where I start. Be careful using sativa's .I forgot once, It was everything bad u read about sat's times ten. Paranoia? Nope sense of impending Doom. Racey? Like a heart attack.

This whole thing just pisses me off. BrotherI it should not come down to some stoners experimenting in their garages. Tryin to find answers here.

Interesting to hear that about another patient, Pal.

Dilaudid is an incredibly strong medication. I've personally been on it a couple times for medical need and really hated the side effects. Hoping the combination is the issue here, like you said, but it's hard to say just yet.


Luckily we're a little above stoners in a garage, but I absolutely agree with you. Sadly there are still few scientific research/journals regarding cannabis & illness, making research for this difficult. Their physicians appear to be approving of their desire to try cannabis...........go figure, some doctors actually do have a heart.



The strain used in edibles was a William's Wonder hybrid. Definitely strong, but indica dominant and it was a "low" dose. I only run 1 or 2 highly sativa strains, which are only for me. Almost everything else is a hybrid, indy leaning. Can't say I've ever had people complain of anxiety before, unless they consumed 1 or more edibles at a sitting. Makes me think the edible/Dilaudid was likely the factor for the panic attack.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Have them try vaping some of the bud... see if that gives them the same anxiety? I understand you used edibles... but reports of folks being able to use vaporizers without anxiety (using the same bud they got anxiety from smoking) indicate that you may be able to use that approach to help build tolerance.

Hoping it's a reaction with the Rx meds as the more they can consume in a short period of time.. the better they'll be. Anxiety issues will make the tolerance buildup a very slow process.

Are there any areas where 'known' bone cancer is close to the surface? Having the local skin absorb the oil will definitely help the area and "most likely" won't have as intense of an anxiety reaction.

Wondering if rubbing it in the area of the kidneys will help keep it in the blood stream and go throughout the body. The kidneys are 'very' close to the surface of the skin and saturating that area with oil should also be effective.

Then again, you won't have much oil... perhaps others can try this and see first?

Oh yeah... absolutely no processed foods. No hydrogenated, enriched (including flour and milk), artificial or 'natural' flavors or sugar. Period. These all feed cancer like you wouldn't believe.


Can't wait for the day when someone with money can throw a few multi-million dollar labs at these questions.

Stay Safe!

 

[mr.brunch]

hope you are succesful. please keep us updated

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Hey BI, good luck with your treatment, sorry to hear about the anxiety issues. It's going to be a challenge to work around that one, best to build up the tolerance like your doing and try to get your hands on a high CBD strain if at all possible.

Good luck with this, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Jah Bless
HGO

 

[brotherindica]

Have them try vaping some of the bud... see if that gives them the same anxiety? I understand you used edibles... but reports of folks being able to use vaporizers without anxiety (using the same bud they got anxiety from smoking) indicate that you may be able to use that approach to help build tolerance.

Hoping it's a reaction with the Rx meds as the more they can consume in a short period of time.. the better they'll be. Anxiety issues will make the tolerance buildup a very slow process.

Are there any areas where 'known' bone cancer is close to the surface? Having the local skin absorb the oil will definitely help the area and "most likely" won't have as intense of an anxiety reaction.

Wondering if rubbing it in the area of the kidneys will help keep it in the blood stream and go throughout the body. The kidneys are 'very' close to the surface of the skin and saturating that area with oil should also be effective.

Then again, you won't have much oil... perhaps others can try this and see first?

Oh yeah... absolutely no processed foods. No hydrogenated, enriched (including flour and milk), artificial or 'natural' flavors or sugar. Period. These all feed cancer like you wouldn't believe.


Can't wait for the day when someone with money can throw a few multi-million dollar labs at these questions.

Stay Safe!

Thanks Hydro!


Definitely trying to get them a vaporizer ASAP. I believe getting small amounts of cannabinoids in them initially to build a tolerance to any psychological effects/anxiety is the first big hurdle.

Once they can handle a small amount, then working in the RSO is the goal. Building further tolerance and hopefully offering them relief.

hope you are succesful. please keep us updated

Thanks Mr. Brunch, me too!

Yup, I'll note any updates I have here.

Hey BI, good luck with your treatment, sorry to hear about the anxiety issues. It's going to be a challenge to work around that one, best to build up the tolerance like your doing and try to get your hands on a high CBD strain if at all possible.

Good luck with this, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Jah Bless
HGO

Thanks HGO!

Good luck to you as well, saw your cancer thread too.


You got it, work up tolerance, then progress further.



Right now for strains I have OG hybrids, Bubba hybrid, Willies Wonder hybrid, and Killer Queen hybrid lined up. Not positive of THC/CBD %, but almost all lean indica in characteristics and help pain, nausea, muscle spasticity, and hunger. Very strong, but *shouldn't normally* induce anxiety. Thinking as indica dominant as possible will be best for the anxiety.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Brother, I've been following this thread and while I haven't worked with any cancer patients, I am working with a schizophrenic and this is what has caused me to pop in to offer up an opinion or observation regarding heavy Afghani-dominant (Indica) vs Sativa-dominant. And that observation is that, while she definitely liked the couchlock Afghanis, she becomes her old self when she's using the Sativas, and that's what we've landed on. Unfortunately I lost my cut of Chocolate Diesel, and that was the one that was making her normal, so we continue to search to find others that will work well for her.

In any event, the point is that it's not always what you'd think. Know what I mean?

 

[brotherindica]

Brother, I've been following this thread and while I haven't worked with any cancer patients, I am working with a schizophrenic and this is what has caused me to pop in to offer up an opinion or observation regarding heavy Afghani-dominant (Indica) vs Sativa-dominant. And that observation is that, while she definitely liked the couchlock Afghanis, she becomes her old self when she's using the Sativas, and that's what we've landed on. Unfortunately I lost my cut of Chocolate Diesel, and that was the one that was making her normal, so we continue to search to find others that will work well for her.

In any event, the point is that it's not always what you'd think. Know what I mean?

Thanks SeaMaiden!



I had really briefly considered more sativa leaning strains. Thanks for sharing that info.


I have a couple day brightening, happy sativa hybrids I'm considering too. Going to start small with indica dominant initially, then see how things progress.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227938

Jamminman the starter of this thread ^, maybe able to help you. he is a super nice guy.

 

[mr.brunch]

maybe you could document your findings.. this could give others a starting point if they are in the same situation

 

[headband 707]

There are really so many things you can do the list is endless your only limitations are cash. I would start with making coconut oils and cannabis you can make olive oil and other oils but I stay with coconut because it's not only good for you but it tastes GREAT in all my eatibles and it can be stored in the fridge and will keep curing in the fridge. If you make oils you can add them to whatever you are making i.e. chocolate /cannabis oil. I make chocolate bars and keep them in the fridge. You can also make brownies .. I use different types of bud for different reasons. I make sleepy mixtures and wakeful mixtures. I do see that it will effect everyone differently. I always suggest ppl go for walks to see how high they are.In my signature there is" Granny Storm crows" list there might be somthing there it's a big list , I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I wish you all the best. headband 707