Beginner / noobie / first timer simple question

[DaveTheNewbie]

so im running vert bulbs blumats and smartpots with chems atm
i was thinking of some sort of supersoil and just running water RO water thru the blumats. Something akin to subcool supersoil.

is there some sort of 1 size fits all packet of power i can buy to add to the soil rather than buying 20 different products and mixing them myself? Effectively an organic soil replacement for GH maxibloom?

i was looking at kelp4less.com and they have all sorts of awesome sounding stuff, but i have no idea what to do with it all.

any thoughts?

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Lots of companies make premixed products. Check out the tone line from Espoma, E.B. Stone's Tomato and Vegetable food, and Down to Earth's Bio-Live. There's a bunch more, but that's a start.

Sorry, but I don't have any experience with kelp4less.com.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok so which of them is a full featured mix product that you can add to soil and then only water with water for the full cycle.
for example Epsoma has a range of items, which one do i want?
How much do i mix into the soil for each one?

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

As long as you have a solid source of humus, most any will do. What are you using in terms of worm castings and/or compost?

 

[Harry Hoosier]

ok so which of them is a full featured mix product that you can add to soil and then only water with water for the full cycle.
for example Epsoma has a range of items, which one do i want?
How much do i mix into the soil for each one?

Dave, you should be able to find this particular 'tone' at most garden centers, big box stores, etc. It's good all around choice and will see you through.

 

[Bag]

epsoma has good products , sold most anywhere, or just ghet some dirt , thats dark, remeber its a weed, less is more, all this crazy high P is a myth, all ya realy need is dirt , water and light, makes best tasting weed ever, earth juice bloom is nice, wont burn. but i say grow like forest gump, simple is as simple does , peace

 

[wingdings]

Yes if you push P and drop other more essential macronutrients your plant will suffer. I've been staying around a 2:1:3:2:1 N:K:CA:Mg with S right around Mg throughout the plants life with great results. P can be raised slightly around wk 3 to 7 for a 10 week flr time, but I stay near that "ratio"

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Thanks everyone for chiming in, it really is helping.

ok so i know at this point im sounding retared with my questions, but i have the mindset of a chem hydro guy, and we sort is a little slow you know

i buy some of the ferts like epsoma vege mix. I mix it into good soil that i buy in a bag as well. In ratios that are specified by the emsoma packet.

Then can i just water with plain water? First run hand watering as i only need to water every couple of days, and if all goes well with blumats down the track.

Fun times is talking about worm castings and compost as well, how does that fit into the picture?

Being in Australia i might not find that brand, but im sure i can find something similar.

 

[Harry Hoosier]

Thanks everyone for chiming in, it really is helping.

ok so i know at this point im sounding retared with my questions, but i have the mindset of a chem hydro guy, and we sort is a little slow you know

i buy some of the ferts like epsoma vege mix. I mix it into good soil that i buy in a bag as well. In ratios that are specified by the emsoma packet.
yes

Then can i just water with plain water? First run hand watering as i only need to water every couple of days, and if all goes well with blumats down the track.
As long as you have a good base soil and a quality vermi/compost, then the espoma will get you through. It has for me.

Fun times is talking about worm castings and compost as well, how does that fit into the picture?
The worm castings should be part of your base.
sphagnum peat 40%
vermi/compost 30%
aeration(perlite, lava, etc.) 30%

Being in Australia i might not find that brand, but im sure i can find something similar.

Hope this helps,
Harry

 

[gregor_mendel]

Try the Living organic soil from start through recycling thread.
The tone may be a shortcut for amendments, but as mentioned already, you need a good source of humus - 1/3 of your mix.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241964

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok so theres 2 parts to take into account and make/source.

1) fertiliser (say epsoma for an all in 1 or something similar)
2) base (more than just a bag of soil from the shop) and thats where the humus / worm castings come in. To me humus = humic acid and its a chelating additive for the chems

so if i can get a 1 part fits all fert (part 1), can i get a 1 part fits all base (part 2)? or do i buy a bag of soil, a bag of coco, and a bag or worm castings and mix?
how can i really simplify this ?

i will read the link thanks gregor

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok hold my hand just a little longer please

i need to make a good base.
what is the simplest good base i can get?
I like what harry was saying, but i have no idea what a vermi/compost is, and saying aeration with an etc leaves me lost too

is a store bought organic good soil not enough? and if not, what is ?
I want to start as simple as possible to learn and build as i go, rushing into the deep end always ends up messy for me.

if i buy a 1 part fert to add to my base, do i still have to "cook" it for 4 weeks, or can i use straight away?

 

[Neo 420]

i need to make a good base.
what is the simplest good base i can get?
I like what harry was saying, but i have no idea what a vermi/compost is, and saying aeration with an etc leaves me lost too

30% compost/EWC - Must have... We make our own. You should buy some high quality compost or ewc...
40% peat - not my thang but it works
30% aeration(perlite, lava, etc.) to provide proper drainage

If these components have no meaning for you then I highly suggest you start reading the organic begginers forum. It is not a world that is easy to digest coming from the chem world.. But once you get it...it's a whole new world.

is a store bought organic good soil not enough? and if not, what is ?
I want to start as simple as possible to learn and build as i go, rushing into the deep end always ends up messy for me.

I have never seen a store bought organic soil that really covered it all. There in fact maybe some brands out there that meet those expectations but I have not seen them.. Organic for us is a process that in over time your soil will be built to be a soil that has the proper microbes, minerals, cec etc.. This develops with time unless you have access to some fertile ass land.......... Its pretty hard to find in one bag because it would shut the hydro industry down......

if i buy a 1 part fert to add to my base, do i still have to "cook" it for 4 weeks, or can i use straight away?

Nutes like alfalfa and bone meal will have too cook or compost. So it depends on what you put into your mix. Don't forget you will need teas too. .....

If I were you I would start reading the organic beginner forum now and follow some advice and recipes that are given there. Good luck and if you have any specific questions, I think we'll be able to answer you better...

 

[gregor_mendel]

DTN

See Neo 420s mix above.

Buying peat and drainage amendments is easy enough.
The source of humus could be worm castings, compost, leaf mould, or a combination thereof. Try to find someone in your area that sells locally made worm castings, compost, or aged horse manure.

Not because local is better, but because they probably have a less industrial approach, better feed, and the product will be fresher. If you are comfortable disclosing your location, some folks will pipe in and tell you what your local options are.

Also, start a compost heap today.

I like to find free pallets, and screw four together to make vertical walls.

I made another such structure dedicated to leaf mould.

A lot of the organic guys may disagree, but I think that if you have a solid understanding of feeding with mineral salts, you can wrap your head around all this.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok so i can make a base out of :
- 3 parts mushroom compost (mix with worm castings if available)
- 4 parts coco coir (mix with peat whatever that is if available)
- 3 parts aeration (have to work this out still, perlite is expensive and i dont like the dust)
plus
- epsoma vege mix (as specified)

mix well, and use straight away with ONLY water for the full 12 week cycle
this is correct?

i have some organic ultimate mix (humic, fulvic, amino acids and kelp) that i would prob throw in too for good luck. got that from kelp4less.com and its the best thing to add to chem ferts ever. its that smell/flavour that makes me want to go full organic.

how much less awesome is this going to be compared to the ultimate mixes you guys make up yourselves just out of interest?

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Mushroom compost isn't really compost at all, it's spent substrate from growing mushrooms. Try searching craigslist in your area for compost, preferably thermophilic, or castings. Or you could make your own. Either way, compost is the mechanism that drives the whole thing. It introduces soil microbes that consume the ingredients in the fertilizer blend and exudes them in an ionic form.

As long as you utilize quality compost and let the soil rest for a month before using it, allowing the microbial life to build up and start processing the raw amendments, it should be close to par with some of the crazy concoctions you see around here.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok so i do have to cook it a month, and buying compost is not something you do in a bag at the local shop.
im starting to get a real picture

EDIT : being in australia i dont have access to the resources you guys do, but i have found this for a compost : how do you guys rate it ?

http://www.gardenersdirect.com.au/commerce/search/products/?product_id=AGGG01&merchant_id=2135

Your prayers have been answered with the arrival of Gods Gift to Gardeners. This premium quality waterwise compost, which has an Input for Organic Production certificate by NASAA Certified Organic, is an excellent compost which has a host of positive benefits that will improve your garden soil no matter were you live.

Some of these are :
1. Environmentally friendly, because the nutrients do not leach and so will not contribute to pollution of the rivers and wetlands. Unlike Manure and chemical fertilisers.
2. Contains a large quantity of organic carbon (30% humus) essential for building weak sandy soil. Manure does not.
3. A very waterwise product, will absorb up to three times its own weight in water. Acts like a sponge in the soil or hanging baskets etc.
4. It contains a large population of beneficial microbes and fungi that convert "locked up" nutrients created from chemical imbalances in the soil. They can also attack the waxy coating surronding soil particles and by doing so reduce the need to use soil wetters.
5. Is PH neutral and so is safe to use even around natives - unlike manure that tends to burn the roots of plants.
6. Contains a balanced amount of essential nutrients and elements that promote natural, healthy plant growth.
7. Increases the cation exchange capacity (nutrient transfer) in the soil.
8. It offers an excellent habitat for earthworms and will stimulate populations of beneficial soil fauna that are essential for natural, healthy plant growth.

This amazing product is multi purpose and can be used as an excellent subsitute for potting mix in pots and hanging baskets, also for seed raising. Use it with confidence to transplant anything and it will also benefit fruit trees and roses as an organic fertiliser. Also use for soil improvement in new or established gardens or revitalising tired mulches. The other outstanding feature is that it's totally odourless and chemical free. NO Filth, NO Flies, NO Smell and NO Pollution.

 

[944s2]

Thanks everyone for chiming in, it really is helping.

ok so i know at this point im sounding retared with my questions, but i have the mindset of a chem hydro guy, and we sort is a little slow you know

i buy some of the ferts like epsoma vege mix. I mix it into good soil that i buy in a bag as well. In ratios that are specified by the emsoma packet.

Then can i just water with plain water? First run hand watering as i only need to water every couple of days, and if all goes well with blumats down the track.

Fun times is talking about worm castings and compost as well, how does that fit into the picture?

Being in Australia i might not find that brand, but im sure i can find something similar.

hiya,, i know there pricey but as your in oz,how about canna bio-products or bio bizz, been using them for years,,mainly canna the last few years,,sure you will find what you need,,good luck,,,peace and safe growing s2

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

hiya,, i know there pricey but as your in oz,how about canna bio-products or bio bizz, been using them for years,,mainly canna the last few years,,sure you will find what you need,,good luck,,,peace and safe growing s2

im after something i can build up and then just water without nutes once built. im familiar with the products you mentioned and they are an organic version of chem nutes. Thanks for the post tho.

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

That seems like a much better choice, Dave.


Here's a link I found for some peat in Australia:
http://legro.com.au/sphagnum-blond-peat-moss

Apparently you guys call it blonde peat.