o shit i just fried the ac cord connection please help

[rives]

Wiring 4 lights to a 30A controller is not the same thing because its not going to overload at 20amp if youre using the proper guage wiring

It may not overload it while everything is working properly, but that isn't why we have the protection in place, is it? The lightest rated component in the circuit should be the fuse/breaker.

 

[TribalSeeds]

It may not overload it while everything is working properly, but that isn't why we have the protection in place, is it? The lightest rated component in the circuit should be the fuse/breaker.

Yea, you wouldnt want to run a 30A controller off a 20A breaker... I agree

 

[rives]

Yea, you wouldnt want to run a 30A controller off a 20A breaker... I agree

You're missing the point here. If you have a 15 or 20 amp receptacle in the circuit, or a 12 gauge wire, then the protection should be no more than 20 amps.

*edit* you can use supplementary protection to "break out" portions of the circuit and protect them at the level the components require. What you are describing would be the equivalent of using your 200 amp main to protect your house - everything would be fine until it wasn't!

 

[TribalSeeds]

You're missing the point here. If you have a 15 or 20 amp receptacle in the circuit, or a 12 gauge wire, then the protection should be no more than 20 amps.

Describe how you should run an 8 light flip flop if the breaker is going to be the lightest component.

 

[rives]

Did you see my edit above?

 

[TribalSeeds]

Did you see my edit above?

*edit* you can use supplementary protection to "break out" portions of the circuit and protect them at the level the components require. What you are describing would be the equivalent of using your 200 amp main to protect your house - everything would be fine until it wasn't!

Everything is alright with the digital timers being recommended in this thread, until they meltdown .

 

[rives]

Everything is alright with the digital timers being recommended in this thread, until they meltdown .

Yep, the internal relays in digital timers are far too light for most of our applications.

 

[TribalSeeds]

How should tree safely run a 4/4 flip flop? Lets pretend he was using his dryer outlet properly...

 

[TREE KING]

Yep, the internal relays in digital timers are far too light for most of our applications.

so could you recommend a timer for a 1000 watt light to stay on for 12 hours please?

 

[rives]

The flip should be built so that the circuit ampacity is protected at whatever level the components are rated at. If you are using 30 or 40 amp rated relays, then the wire and parts should be rated to handle that current. If you are going to reduce down to a 20 amp receptacle after the relay, then properly sized fusing or a breaker should be inserted into each circuit prior to the lower-rated component.

 

[rives]

so could you recommend a timer for a 1000 watt light to stay on for 12 hours please?

A water heater timer like the Intermatic T101 or a power-relay driven by a digital timer if you want better timing resolution.

 

[TribalSeeds]

The flip should be built so that the circuit ampacity is protected at whatever level the components are rated at. If you are using 30 or 40 amp rated relays, then the wire and parts should be rated to handle that current. If you are going to reduce down to a 20 amp receptacle after the relay, then properly sized fusing or a breaker should be inserted into each circuit prior to the lower-rated component.

I thought that was what the controller did. Youre saying there should be a fuse/breaker before and after the controller? 15A and 30/40A(depending on controller)?

 

[rives]

Damn, I thought that was what the controller did. Youre saying there should be a fuse/breaker before and after the controller? 15A and 30/40A?
So 15A would be OK, but 20A wouldnt?

I have never seen a commercial controller with the correct protection installed. That is one of the reasons they can't get UL certification. I've argued the point extensively with DXHydro, and his justification is a loophole in the code that is only meant for commercial/factory lighting under very tightly limited circumstances, none of which will ever apply to our situations.

I don't understand what you are asking in your last line - 15a ok but 20a not??

 

[TREE KING]

A water heater timer like the Intermatic T101 or a power-relay driven by a digital timer if you want better timing resolution.

thanks, i just remembered something though sorry. i need a timer thats able to handle 2 different devices both on different times cause im trying to control 2 1000 watt lights from 1 15 amp outlet and they cant be on at the same time. the T101 cant do this right? if not can you recommend a timer for this with 2 plugs on it?

 

[rives]

thanks, i just remembered something though sorry. i need a timer thats able to handle 2 different devices both on different times cause im trying to control 2 1000 watt lights from 1 15 amp outlet but it cant be on at the same time. the T101 cant do this right? if not can you recommend a timer for this with 2 plugs on it?

If you want to flip back and forth between two light fixtures on a 12/12 cycle, you could drive a double-throw relay with a digital timer. When the relay was unpowered, one fixture would be on, and when the relay turned on, the other fixture would light up. I don't know of a commercial offering that does this.

 

[TribalSeeds]

I have never seen a commercial controller with the correct protection installed. That is one of the reasons they can't get UL certification. I've argued the point extensively with DXHydro, and his justification is a loophole in the code that is only meant for commercial/factory lighting under very tightly limited circumstances, none of which will ever apply to our situations.

I don't understand what you are asking in your last line - 15a ok but 20a not??

Sorry, I type from my phone and have ahell of a hard time keeping the entire screen in view...
So a digital ballast like the Lumatek's fuse isnt good enough after the controller?

 

[TREE KING]

If you want to flip back and forth between two light fixtures on a 12/12 cycle, you could drive a double-throw relay with a digital timer. When the relay was unpowered, one fixture would be on, and when the relay turned on, the other fixture would light up. I don't know of a commercial offering that does this.

thanks

 

[rives]

Sorry, I type from my phone and have ahell of a hard time keeping the entire screen in view...
So a digital ballast like the Lumatek's fuse isnt good enough after the controller?

That fuse only protects the ballast, not the upstream components. If the fault occurs between the ballast and the upstream protection (power cord gets smashed, etc), then all of the upstream components are subject to whatever current the upstream protection is rated for.

 

[TribalSeeds]

Gottcha! Thanks for helping sort things out! I thought I had 3 seperate lines of protection before the main... doh!

 

[siftedunity]

nice to see some interesting conversation going on now