Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Budwhyser]

SeaMaiden

Run 'Chemistry Solubility' through Google Scholar, SCIRUS or JSTOR - the answer is there for the 'how & why' on water vs. soil uptake

Looking to amendments to get your soil 'right' is fraught with problems. Get the humus component in your soils dialed-in and you won't have to worry about CeC, mineralization, 'nute' availability or any of the other myths pushed at Hydro Heaven.

CC

Great Thread and I know I'm coming to the party late, but might you elaborate how one might "get the humus component" dialed in if you're not setup to compost?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Great Thread and I know I'm coming to the party late, but might you elaborate how one might "get the humus component" dialed in if you're not setup to compost?

I will take a shot just for starters and then maybe someone can elaborate on that.

When you don't have plenty of high quality humus available mineral balancing becomes incredibly important. That is because you do not have enough living things in the soil or enough cec (or just negative sites on clay particles) to let the plant manage its own needs. You get the mineralization wrong, pH goes off and bad shit happens.

When your humus is in enough quantity and quality (living as they say in this thread) that gives your soil control over so much more. Ratios become less and less important because you have enough negative sites to sequester all kinds of cations (including H+ so that pH control becomes a non issue). The critters manage anions for you (and a whole lot more) and all goes well.

So dialed basically means enough very high quality humus to allow all of this to happen...like magic.

If you read through the thread some good compost/ewc commercial stuff is referenced.

If you cannot get high enough quality humus then manage your base cation saturation to around 65% Ca and 15% Mg and you will be fine (no pH worries, no compaction worries, etc). But if you want to make it even simpler take the time to hunt down the right humus.

 

[shmalphy]

Great Thread and I know I'm coming to the party late, but might you elaborate how one might "get the humus component" dialed in if you're not setup to compost?

add organic matter as mulch, no till recycle leaving crop stubble, earthworms, well rotted animal manure, leaf litter, leaf mold, green manure, BIM, living mulch, fish emulsion, FPE's, etc, etc, etc

 

[ixnay007]

I got rid of them once I realized that camphor was what mothballs are made of... I hate that smell.. Looks like my shed won't have moths for awhile LOL. It is amazing how much smell something that small puts off.

I remembered reading about lavender with a higher camphor content being better for repeling mites so I grabbed a pack when I seen them at the register at a store.

Hehehe, camphor is one of the things that kills them I think, along with linalool, linalool being one of things you find in the whole mint family.. I have to say, we've noticed that insects don't really enjoy staying in our kitchen now, as I've got a cup full of dried lavender spikes on a shelf. I much prefer the smell of lavender (even the medicinal varieties like we have here) to pure camphor myself.

 

[shmalphy]

I have 3 types of lavender, but they started this year, and I haven't gotten any flowers yet. I am hoping they come in strong next year.

 

[BlueJayWay]

I have some lavender I keep in the flower room - 9 months old from seed I think and no signs of flowers, maybe it's assbackwards to cannabis and flowers in veg cycle instead.

I think geraniums have properties to deter insects, or certain kinds, I don't know now but I have them next to the lavender so it made me think of it again....

 

[ixnay007]

Geraniums supposedly repel mosquitoes, though, while looking, you might want to plant a few of these in your room:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrum

Because of the natural insecticidal properties of the pyrethrums, they are used as companion plants, to repel pest insects from nearby crops and ornamental plants. They are thought to repel aphids, bed bugs (Cimex lectularius), leafhoppers, spider mites, harlequin bugs, ticks, pickleworms and imported cabbage worms, among others that are in gardens and farms. For example, they are planted among broccoli plants for protection from several common insect pests.

 

[ixnay007]

BTW, my lavender flowers in midsummer, so I'd imagine it's a question of longer periods of light..

 

[VerdantGreen]

thats right ixnay,

lavander will flower much quicker under long-day conditions so keep it in your veg room until it is flower

 

[Gascanastan]

I will take a shot just for starters and then maybe someone can elaborate on that.

When you don't have plenty of high quality humus available mineral balancing becomes incredibly important. That is because you do not have enough living things in the soil or enough cec (or just negative sites on clay particles) to let the plant manage its own needs. You get the mineralization wrong, pH goes off and bad shit happens.

When your humus is in enough quantity and quality (living as they say in this thread) that gives your soil control over so much more. Ratios become less and less important because you have enough negative sites to sequester all kinds of cations (including H+ so that pH control becomes a non issue). The critters manage anions for you (and a whole lot more) and all goes well.

So dialed basically means enough very high quality humus to allow all of this to happen...like magic.

If you read through the thread some good compost/ewc commercial stuff is referenced.

If you cannot get high enough quality humus then manage your base cation saturation to around 65% Ca and 15% Mg and you will be fine (no pH worries, no compaction worries, etc). But if you want to make it even simpler take the time to hunt down the right humus.

Nicely said....one of the best explanations on what really does need to be explained about living soil taking care of ph on this level to a noob out there man.
... I'd say at least 95% of ph issues are because of a lack of humic material and life forms in the soil. If you are using peat moss based soil mixes and not liming and/or adding the right amount of humic material from EWC,compost,etc.....yer gonna have issues.
All this cal/mag BS you hear people yapping about goes away......the ph meter becomes obsolete. Recycled organic living soil takes care of everything....every time....all the time.

GC

 

[Budwhyser]

add organic matter as mulch, no till recycle leaving crop stubble, earthworms, well rotted animal manure, leaf litter, leaf mold, green manure, BIM, living mulch, fish emulsion, FPE's, etc, etc, etc

Thanks for the response...what are your thoughts on liquid humus? Will this also help to get to the level of humus I want/need in my mix?

 

[Budwhyser]

Nicely said....one of the best explanations on what really does need to be explained about living soil taking care of ph on this level to a noob out there man.
... I'd say at least 95% of ph issues are because of a lack of humic material and life forms in the soil. If you are using peat moss based soil mixes and not liming and/or adding the right amount of humic material from EWC,compost,etc.....yer gonna have issues.
All this cal/mag BS you hear people yapping about goes away......the ph meter becomes obsolete. Recycled organic living soil takes care of everything....every time....all the time.

GC

Thanks Yosemite and GC!

So what % of my base mix should my humic makeup consist?

If I'm using EWC and Cow Poo are these also high in N and should I be concerned with burn issues?

Also, once the mix is complete and I have adequate humic content in the soil can I throw away my PH meter and simply water with my 7.2 dechlorinated tap water, which may be in the 5's with certain amendments?

Also Yose, you mentioned something about managing my base cation saturation to 65% Ca 15%Mg. Can you explain how I would go about that please?

The comraderie in this group is amazing. If only the world could come together like this we could accomplish so much...thank you all

 

[Budwhyser]

Cool man, I just got some bags of nettle, yarrow, comfrey, yucca root powder, horsetail (as in shavegrass) oh and some red clover seed, i was thinking of sprouting the clover and letting it grow on the piles/bins of reused soil as they wait for their next run i.e. mini cover crop.

When I use alfalfa, I brew a tea, 5gal water, 1 cup EWC & 1/4 to 1/2 cup alfalfa meal (I find 1/2 cup to be a bit strong though, undiluted) & 30 to 50ml molasses, then let it bubble for about a day.

Are there more proven/benefical methods in using any of these other herbs/plants that you've found?

OH and on the Georges aloe juice, Fractional Distillation is their method of extraction/preservation. I couldn't think of it at the time, I'm going to work through the bottle (and take a few swigs myself, tastes like water) then look into other aloe options. Aloe doesn't like being under feet of snow I discovered LOL lets see how they may do indoors...

When you brew this tea are you putting the amendments in some sort of bag or simple dumping them in a pail with an air stone?

 

[Vhghost]

awesome thread... what a read

 

[BlueJayWay]

When you brew this tea are you putting the amendments in some sort of bag or simple dumping them in a pail with an air stone?

Hey budwheyser, whatever tea i'm making, ewc or botanical or combo, I dump it all in there together, no bag, let everything bubble around and get messy. I also topdress with all the remaining goodies floating around and if I foliar spray with the same tea I have a hand strainer I pour the tea through.

Many use a nylon sock or a tea strainer to hold everything in and then dump all that on a compost pile.


Either way, gets the job done

 

[jerry111165]

Thanks for the response...what are your thoughts on liquid humus? Will this also help to get to the level of humus I want/need in my mix?

Not at all. Get the compost and-or castings.

J

 

[Budwhyser]

Hey budwheyser, whatever tea i'm making, ewc or botanical or combo, I dump it all in there together, no bag, let everything bubble around and get messy. I also topdress with all the remaining goodies floating around and if I foliar spray with the same tea I have a hand strainer I pour the tea through.

Many use a nylon sock or a tea strainer to hold everything in and then dump all that on a compost pile.


Either way, gets the job done

Great Thanx Man. I'm making my first alfalfa brew tonight! Once it's done, I'm using it full strength right?

 

[joedogsong]

I couldn't find this actual post but from ClackamasCootz:

"Try this:

1/4 cup Barley seeds (not pearled barley from Safeway)

Sprout like you would any seed like Alfalfa, Mung beans, etc.

Once they're sprouted (about 2 days) add to 1 gallon of water and let that sit for 3 or 4 days and it will turn cloudy. Strain and mix 2 cups of this 'tea' to 14 cups of water = 1 gallon.

Spray your plants from top to bottom and hit the soil.

Let me know what you think. This works equally well using alfalfa, wheat, oat, etc. seeds.

"Enzymes"

Well my plants are quite healthy but when I applied this, the next morning the green house resembled a church service with all the praying going on. From top to bottom, all ten feet of 'em, leaf tips pointing to the sky.

I'm wondering if the enzymes from the sprouts will be as effective in rooting clones.
Cootz, you don't talk about it but what is your experience using this with your rooting recipe?
Thanks for the info you share

 

[Budwhyser]

Welcome to a new realm of gardening...glad you could join us.

My suggestions...keep recycling the same soil...keep the soil alive and fed....take care of it and it will take care of you.

Truly the most valuable thing I own is the soil I've carried around with me for 3 years...honestly it's value was worth packing in a U-haul the last 4 garden moves......

This thread has encouraged me to once again recycle my soil. I was doing it at one point but discovered that the "Cal-Mag" lockout( I know, I know..) I thought I was encountering over 2 cycles actually was a root aphid issue that I had been recycling over and over. These things were brutal and frankly made the concept of recycling your pests with your soil unpalatable. Not even sure where they came from...my home depot sphagnum peat, hydro poor ewc??

 

[ClackamasCootz]

joedogsong

I've not used these teas for rooting plant material. Aloe vera besides containing 3 of the main compounds used in commercial rooting products is also enzyme rich.

Worth a test! Never know......

CC