Calling all coco pro's!

[Tyga]

Just recently made the switch from soil over to coco and I've been constantly fighting some sort of deficiency that I just can't seem to overcome... Hoping you guys can help me figure out what's making these girls so unhappy! Can't decide wether they are suffering nute burn or deficiency that got so bad it started resembling nute burn...
Seems to start out looking like a N deficiency and then as it gets worse the tips start turning brown. So I upped the feed to around .9EC and it seemed to get a little worse. I tested to Run off EC and the highest were testing about .14EC higher than what I was feeding with most closer to .10
Plants are about a month old, 5th-6th node approx.
Container- 1 Gal square pot
Medium- Roots Organic Coco
Nutrients- Veg+bloom 1 part
PH/EC- .79/5.9
Temps- 78

If you want anymore info let me know..

 

[Treetroit City]

What nutes?
What light?
Are you letting your coco dry out?

 

[Tyga]

What nutes?
What light?
Are you letting your coco dry out?

I let the coco dry out slightly not to much though.... Watering every 3rd day but they are on 18/6 schedule under 4ft 4 lamp t5.
Nutes are Hydroponic Research Veg+Bloom.... It's an all in one formula that a good amount of users on the mag have had great success with.

 

[habeeb]

-whats with the glove?

-second, light size

-third, don't be bubbling water, that's for compost teas

-fourth, ppm in water before nutes

-fifth, water alkalinity

-sixth, runoff or no

-seventh, don't give up, your gonna like coco once you tailor it



looks like nuteburn to me... but follow your instincts, as you know your setup better then any of us

 

[Treetroit City]

Strange. You got me stumped. The only thing I'd be doing different is feeding everyday to runoff. As coco dries out the salts concentrate. My only thought.

 

[Tyga]

-Glove- Like to be sanitary, especially when dealing with PH UP/DOWN
- Stated above 4ft 4lamp T5
- Bubbling water is to aerate tap water
- PPM around 150 before nutes
- PPM out the tap is around 250, 150 after aerated
- Plenty of run off each watering to try to keep from salt build up
- Thanks! Haha trying my best but this is pushing me to the edge cause I'm stumped!

 

[Tyga]

Strange. You got me stumped. The only thing I'd be doing different is feeding everyday to runoff. As coco dries out the salts concentrate. My only thought.

Wish I had the time to hand water 30+ plants every day till run off! :big grin: unfortunately I don't... but the coco really seems to retain a large amount of water since there only under T5's and not a HPS/MH

 

[Tyga]

First to pic's are some Pre98xNL5Haze, and some ECSD's getting feed the same that are doing just fine... Last pic better shows the N deficiency that progresses into the rusty tips.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Mmm... could be a P- going on there. Get more whole-plant pix, very helpful. We need to see where this is happening on the plant, and I'm willing to bet my best (cooking) beans that there are other signs showing before the necrosis hits.

 

[Tyga]

Mmm... could be a P- going on there. Get more whole-plant pix, very helpful. We need to see where this is happening on the plant, and I'm willing to bet my best (cooking) beans that there are other signs showing before the necrosis hits.

These are all the pics I have at the moment.... Look at the last pic I posted the main leaf in the pic is a late stage of whats going on.. but if you check out the growth in the background you can see how it started off getting that light green color.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Aye, looking like a P-. What are the K numbers your feed is giving you? I would want to back off K, see how it affects P. I see some reddened petioles, that's your first tell.

New growth light green, especially on very rapidly growing plants, is common in my experience. Once they grow out a bit, then N is translocated and they green up just fine.

 

[Tyga]

Aye, looking like a P-. What are the K numbers your feed is giving you? I would want to back off K, see how it affects P. I see some reddened petioles, that's your first tell.

New growth light green, especially on very rapidly growing plants, is common in my experience. Once they grow out a bit, then N is translocated and they green up just fine.

NPK ratios are 16-10-30 if thats what your asking..

 

[TribalSeeds]

I dont think I could get away with watering my plants every 3 days in coco with a PPM that low. Ive had issues trying to go every other day. My stems turn purple and growth gets light green.

 

[Tyga]

I dont think I could get away with watering my plants every 3 days in coco with a PPM that low. Ive had issues trying to go every other day. My stems turn purple and growth gets light green.

If i go any longer than 3 days my plants will start to wilt but ive found 3 find of being my sweet spot.. Temps never get above 78 and humidity is rather high so im sure that helps the cause.

 

[mitsu1]

i agree looks like P problem. Pretty high K numbers, P to low is my guess. One part you can't do anything about,it is what it is. Try increasing the ppm(use more ferts). Maybe it's just a P deficiency. Can't hurt!..mitsu

 

[Tyga]

i agree looks like P problem. Pretty high K numbers, P to low is my guess. One part you can't do anything about,it is what it is. Try increasing the ppm(use more ferts). Maybe it's just a P deficiency. Can't hurt!..mitsu

THanks man ill try to bump up my feed to 1ec and see how it goes!

 

[SeaMaiden]

NPK ratios are 16-10-30 if thats what your asking..

Ok, for coir specifically, in my opinion that is WAAAAAAYYY too much potassium. I would use another feed.

i agree looks like P problem. Pretty high K numbers, P to low is my guess. One part you can't do anything about,it is what it is. Try increasing the ppm(use more ferts). Maybe it's just a P deficiency. Can't hurt!..mitsu

THanks man ill try to bump up my feed to 1ec and see how it goes!

No, you cannot eliminate the K, or change the ratios by simply giving more. It's the wrong feed for coco coir. Find something else if you need an all-in-one. You cannot feed coir just like soil. You can treat it in many other aspects as soil, but it is a soilless medium and can be considered a form of hydroponic growing because it is soilless (defined as without the animal waste from microbes, rock particles, clay, humus, etc, typically found in what is defined as soil). This is why people often go with coir-specific formulas. I personally have found that, for chemical salt-based feeding, a regimen using a combination of Floranova Bloom, Fox Farms Big Bloom fed at very low levels, using reverse osmosis or rain water supplemented SEPARATELY with calcium and magnesium is fantastic.

Separating Ca from Mg has allowed me to distinguish instantly one issue from another. Ca is the element most often neglected and most often underfed, as it is imperative for proper uptake and utilization in plants. It must be laid down from the beginning because it is (relatively) immobile in plant tissues. I feel it is the single most commonly misdiagnosed problem in cannabis cultivation, yet the most easily preventable.

During flowering, I do give a bump of powdered Koolbloom beginning at flip, and every 10 days thereafter until approximately 2-3 weeks before I plan to choppy-chop.

I have yet to do a 100% organic coir grow. When I'm able to fire up the indoor rooms again that's my plan. I may experiment with some side-by-sides using coir and soil, but the response time and growth, yield, etc, I have found with coir are hard to beat.

 

[watts]

Do yourself a favor and follow the h3ads formula in the coco section with GH flora micro and flora bloom. It's sticky'd at top of coco forum. Also, starting seeds and clones in rapid rooters then transplant to coco, once rooted, is really good. Try not to start in soil ever if you plan to transplant in coco. Get some good 100% coco like Botanicare. No need for perlite or anything else. Start plants in small containers like beer cups and water once, every other day with a few ounces if under t5. Once the roots fill the cup in about 10-14 days you can transplant to a gallon or two size containers. Once roots fill that, you can water once daily. Finally transplant to 5 gallon pots if you need huge plants. Point is, it's not good to start small plants in big containers. It's better to start small and water every day or every other day instead of waiting 3+ days like you're doing.


EDIT: After looking back at the pics, the containers look appropriately sized. Did you start those in soil, then go put them in the coco? If so, try to stop doing that in the future. If that's all coco then you should be watering those daily, or every other day at most. Your main problem seems to be the type of nutrients that you're trying to use with coco. You need the correct ratios and a specific formula. Like I said though, check out the h3ad formula thread sticky'd at the top of the coco forum. It's very good and simple.

 

[Tyga]

Do yourself a favor and follow the h3ads formula in the coco section with GH flora micro and flora bloom. It's sticky'd at top of coco forum. Also, starting seeds and clones in rapid rooters then transplant to coco, once rooted, is really good. Try not to start in soil ever if you plan to transplant in coco. Get some good 100% coco like Botanicare. No need for perlite or anything else. Start plants in small containers like beer cups and water once, every other day with a few ounces if under t5. Once the roots fill the cup in about 10-14 days you can transplant to a gallon or two size containers. Once roots fill that, you can water once daily. Finally transplant to 5 gallon pots if you need huge plants. Point is, it's not good to start small plants in big containers. It's better to start small and water every day or every other day instead of waiting 3+ days like you're doing.


EDIT: After looking back at the pics, the containers look appropriately sized. Did you start those in soil, then go put them in the coco? If so, try to stop doing that in the future. If that's all coco then you should be watering those daily, or every other day at most. Your main problem seems to be the type of nutrients that you're trying to use with coco. You need the correct ratios and a specific formula. Like I said though, check out the h3ad formula thread sticky'd at the top of the coco forum. It's very good and simple.

Thanks man just checked it out always new about it and heard of the 6/9 recipe but never really dug to deep into it. So 6/9 the whole grow and that's it? Or do you recommend any additives like silca,bloom booster, etc.
And yeah you caught me! They were started off in solo cups with happy frog and once they showed there first signs of being hungry I tossed em in the 1gal. square pots with coco but I will def take a look into the rapid rapid rooters, I got a few buddy's who swear by em' but never took a whack at them.
As far as coco goes I've already fucked with botanicare bricks and I have a feeling they brought some gnats into the garden, plus its a HUGE pain in the ass to soak the bricks and then break them apart by hand and then drain the excess water I personally would rather go with a pre-bagged coco and the only kind my local shop carries is Roots Organic right now...

 

[TribalSeeds]

Ok, for coir specifically, in my opinion that is WAAAAAAYYY too much potassium. I would use another feed.



No, you cannot eliminate the K, or change the ratios by simply giving more. It's the wrong feed for coco coir. Find something else if you need an all-in-one. You cannot feed coir just like soil. You can treat it in many other aspects as soil, but it is a soilless medium and can be considered a form of hydroponic growing because it is soilless (defined as without the animal waste from microbes, rock particles, clay, humus, etc, typically found in what is defined as soil). This is why people often go with coir-specific formulas. I personally have found that, for chemical salt-based feeding, a regimen using a combination of Floranova Bloom, Fox Farms Big Bloom fed at very low levels, using reverse osmosis or rain water supplemented SEPARATELY with calcium and magnesium is fantastic.

Separating Ca from Mg has allowed me to distinguish instantly one issue from another. Ca is the element most often neglected and most often underfed, as it is imperative for proper uptake and utilization in plants. It must be laid down from the beginning because it is (relatively) immobile in plant tissues. I feel it is the single most commonly misdiagnosed problem in cannabis cultivation, yet the most easily preventable.

During flowering, I do give a bump of powdered Koolbloom beginning at flip, and every 10 days thereafter until approximately 2-3 weeks before I plan to choppy-chop.

I have yet to do a 100% organic coir grow. When I'm able to fire up the indoor rooms again that's my plan. I may experiment with some side-by-sides using coir and soil, but the response time and growth, yield, etc, I have found with coir are hard to beat.

That 16-10-30(V+B) is a magic formula that is a bloom booster at 1200ppm, a veg nute at 600ppm & If you jack it up to 3000ppm I hear it grows 300lb nugs like pumpkins.