Simple math?

[CFP65]

this might to some be trivial mathematics but to me its not.

i have been gifted some comercially made STS. made for flower preservation.



the label of the pack states that there is 80gr/kg active ingredient in the powder and that the active ingredient is AgNa3O6S4 with a molar weight of 401,1
so its kosher/genuine sodium silver thiosulphate in a silvergrey powder form

my problem is that i want to hit mohan rams formular of 100ug in the mixture and simply cant get the maths correct on this one
How many grams of the stuff do i need to put in 1liter water to hit the 100ug mark.

the only result i can get out of calculating is to use 1gr pr 800ml water to hit 0,0001000 wich sholud be the same as a 100ug solution.

but using the same calulating method on the Homemade formulations floating around the net gives results like 0,003777 thats about 300times as much as Mohan ram ?
i really need a solution to this problem i hope yop can help

 

[TribalSeeds]

I dont have a fucking clue what you're talking about. I went to public school. I just wanted to point out how fucking sweet it is that you can come to a cannabis forum to ask questions like that.

 

[legalizeDK]

hi. 0.00125 gr/L. I THINK?.
80 gr divided by 1000, and you have 0.08 of AgNa3O6S4 pr gram of powder.
0.08gram = 80000 ug 80000ug divided by 800 and you have 100ug.
then you divide one gram by 800 = 0.00125
BUT im REALLY high right now, and im not a math wiz so better get it confirmed before spraying them.

peace

 

[NotaProfessor]

It's kind of unclear what you want...Do you want a solution of STS with 100 ug/ml concentration?

To create a liter of solution with a concentration of 100ug/ml STS in it you would need to dissolve 1.25g of the mix in a liter of water.

Math:
Concentration of STS in the powder:
80g STS/kg powder = 80mg STS/1g powder

Amount of STS needed per liter of solution:
100ug/ml STS = 100mg STS/ liter.

Amount of powder needed to make the solution:
100mg STS/liter x 1g powder/80 mg STS = 1.25 g powder/liter

 

[NotaProfessor]

this might to some be trivial mathematics but to me its not.

the only result i can get out of calculating is to use 1gr pr 800ml water to hit 0,0001000 wich sholud be the same as a 100ug solution.

...and you got the right answer all by yourself.

 

[CFP65]

thanks for the effort guys

i found some more on the subject here
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2751749

 

[CFP65]

and that did not make me any wiser on the subject!

what i want is a solution with a strngth of 100ug and i think thats the same as 100ppm?'

 

[NotaProfessor]

what i want is a solution with a strngth of 100ug and i think thats the same as 100ppm?'

Yes, 100ug/ml = 100ppm.

 

[Nunsacred]

Crikey. Let's stick with the ratios and work in grams.

You say you want 100ug active ingredient for your mix. That's only 0.0001g.

The conc. of the stuff you have is 80g / 1000g
which is 8 / 100
which is 0.08 / 1g.

which is 0.0008 / 0.01g

which is 0.0001 / 0.00125g (answer)

:::::::::::: so you only want 0.00125g of your powder in your mix to get your 100ug amount

Pretty much impossible to measure such a small amount kitchen scales mate
you need to work out whether you can make 1000x too much and then only use a tiny bit of what you made up, just to get accuracy.

edit :

Unless I've assumed something wrong - maybe Mohan Ram's formula doesn't refer to the pure STS ingredient - he might be talking about a diluted mix just like what you have.
The question is whether you want to try risking way too much rather than way too little.

 

[CFP65]

well i just tried 1gr pr litre and ended up with a full reversal, only one thing wrong no pollen in the sacks, i actually tried it twice
1.st time spraying from 2.weeks before 12/12 and into week 3 of 12/12 with no pollen on a full reversal
2.nd time i strated spraying from day one of 12/12 and stopped at 1 day of week 3 in 12/12. still full reversal but no pollen.

i dont really get it this time, when i used CS i had no problems, i even went so far as to dip a plant roots up in a 5litre CS bath with the 9V current going, and let the CS brew till black for 25days and presto i got full reversal with pollen in abundance, no problem.
plants looked shit and stopped growing for 14 days or more, but after treatment they just took on again and did what they should.

the point is i really want this powder stuff to work and work out a sort of schematics on it for my plants, but i need some kind of starting point that i can have faith in and therefore i wanted to go back to basics in the levels and work from there, and basics is mohan rams work with his 100ug blend.

one thing is for certain 3weeks of spraying 1gr pr litre before 12/12 and 3 weeks into 12/12 daily dosent work on Grapefruit, allthough it does on The White.
starting spraying 1gr pr litre at start of 12/12 and into week 3 of 12/12 dosent do the trick on Grapefruit either.

maby i should just lend a PPM metre and try to make up a blend with 100PPM. and take it from there.

last resort is going back to CS and full dips with 9V on

 

[Nunsacred]

you only want 0.00125g of your powder in your mix to get your 100ug

...so your mix was 799 times too concentrated at 1g per L

 

[NotaProfessor]

You say you want 100ug active ingredient for your mix. That's only 0.0001g.
:::::::::::: so you only want 0.00125g of your powder in your mix to get your 100ug amount

Pardon me but that's dosage. If you dilute that little powder to a liter you need to spray the whole liter on a plant to deliver 100ug.

With the 1.25g powder/liter the application rate is 1 ml/plant to deliver 100ug per plant.

edit :

Unless I've assumed something wrong - maybe Mohan Ram's formula doesn't refer to the pure STS ingredient - he might be talking about a diluted mix just like what you have.
The question is whether you want to try risking way too much rather than way too little.

The dilution rate I provided is fine. My guess is you are confusing dosage vs concentration.

 

[legalizeDK]

if the disered concentration is 100ug/liter. the u wouldhave to use 0.00125g

 

[NotaProfessor]

well i just tried 1gr pr litre and ended up with a full reversal, only one thing wrong no pollen in the sacks, i actually tried it twice
1.st time spraying from 2.weeks before 12/12 and into week 3 of 12/12 with no pollen on a full reversal
2.nd time i strated spraying from day one of 12/12 and stopped at 1 day of week 3 in 12/12. still full reversal but no pollen.

i dont really get it this time, when i used CS i had no problems, i even went so far as to dip a plant roots up in a 5litre CS bath with the 9V current going, and let the CS brew till black for 25days and presto i got full reversal with pollen in abundance, no problem.
plants looked shit and stopped growing for 14 days or more, but after treatment they just took on again and did what they should.

the point is i really want this powder stuff to work and work out a sort of schematics on it for my plants, but i need some kind of starting point that i can have faith in and therefore i wanted to go back to basics in the levels and work from there, and basics is mohan rams work with his 100ug blend.

one thing is for certain 3weeks of spraying 1gr pr litre before 12/12 and 3 weeks into 12/12 daily dosent work on Grapefruit, allthough it does on The White.
starting spraying 1gr pr litre at start of 12/12 and into week 3 of 12/12 dosent do the trick on Grapefruit either.

maby i should just lend a PPM metre and try to make up a blend with 100PPM. and take it from there.

last resort is going back to CS and full dips with 9V on

There are a couple possibilities I see.

First, 1g/liter is 80ppm. The Mohan Ram article you linked to talks about 100ppm STS as optimal. Perhaps you are not inhibiting ethylene enough. The article also talks about 150ppm being inhibitory(I'm guessing here it means 'too much'), so stay below 2g/liter (which is 160ppm).

Second, the article talks of apical (tips) application. Perhaps you did not concentrate on the tips. No need to spray the whole plant, just the growing tips.

Finally, it's ok to use the article as a starting point for your work but it may be necessary to tweak your solution to fit your particular setup/dilution/application/strain configuration. Remember that the data in papers are produced under very controlled conditions and your mileage will truly vary in your attempts. Stay observant, keep records, change only one thing at a time and you will find your solution.

 

[CFP65]

ok guys
i went and bought a Bluelab PPM meter and here comes
1Litre of demineralised water = 0 PPM
1 litre of demineralised water + 1,25gr STS = 900PPM
1Litre of Demineralised water + 0,12gr STS = 100PPM

 

[blackone]

Don't worry about the ppm measures because its just a multiple of the ec value and is only correct for a reference salt

 

[growcodile]

hey cfp

was your demineralised water really 0,0 EC / 0 ppm ? only special water has such low salts .. RO water often has ~ 0,05 EC .. also what about the measuring error of the scale used ?