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Lucas on Watering

Z

Ziggaro

Hey guys I have been reading the Ask Lucas thread over on another site and found a lot of helpful information about fertilizing over there.
I wanted to share some of his posts about watering that I found that were interesting because I don't understand how to implement the advice.

"now for an additional irrigation strategy

I once met a very successful gardener who used 7 gallon pots of Sunshine #4. It is mainly peatmoss and perlite. His secret to success, was to never water the pot enough to get runoff out the bottom, because it would take a young plant, say one that is just in the 20" height range at the beginning of 12/12, about a week of sitting in waterlogged peatmoss, before it could begin to breathe oxygen through the roots.

so what this grower did instead, was to water with only about one quart of water per day. the peat moss was slightly moist, I would call it about 20-30% wet, making the pot only about 1/3 as heavy, or less, as it would be if the peat moss was soggy.

their secret to determining how much water a plant would use up in one day, was to imagine stuffing the entire plant into a pitcher... in the case of a 20" tall plant, it would seem that if all the leaves were crammed into the pitcher, Im thinking of a 2 quart pitcher, then the plant would only fill the pitcher half way.

so the grower only used half a pitcher of water

the goal was to keep the roots fluffy, white and thriving, the way they get in Rockwool that is allowed to "dry out"

now, for people that dont "get it", the part about letting peat operate at non waterlogged levels, I recommend they add perlite as much as 50%, so there is less soggy wet peat..

its interactive, the more the grower waters, the more I tell them to use material that wont hold water.
peatmoss and perlite are not going to breathe as easily as a pot of rox on an ebb flow table that is wattered several times daily by a timer.

humans have trouble doing that, so they use more water holding material, like peat, if they like to hand water..

I could go on if you like have more questions, dont hesitate to ask. Just one last thought, no matter what medium density one uses, if it stays soggy wet for more than 24 hours, its a bad thing..

irrigation is not supposed to suffocate the roots, so too much irrigation is bad because it interferes with oxygen delivery to the roots.. the ideal root environ is oxygen rich, and moist misty vapor is what they thrive in.

a pot of medium that is warming up and vaporizing the water so it becomes fog in the pores, will produce very happy fluffy, fuzzy, multi branched roots...
"

Right now I water until runoff and wait until they are dry to water again. I use about a gallon per plant and it takes 3-4 days to dry out completely, but according to Lucas this is wrong.
Should I be using a quart every day instead of a gallon every 4?

How do I ensure that the bottom is not all dried out while I'm watering if I only give it a quart?

In the grow books I have they talk about making sure you have runoff so there are no dry pockets in the soil, so I'm a little confused by the conflicting info on the subject...


Yes, cm, another watering thread. No I'm not going to hang it up lol...punk
 
S

Sat X RB

seems to me the key to what is being said is focused on the use of peat in the growing medium.

do you use peat? if so, have you had trouble with waterlogging?

for me peat sound like bad news. if peat is used so that your plant doesn't dry out when you forget to water ... which is what the guy you quote is suggesting ... then in my opinion you get what you deserve.

I think the best solution is to use a well drained medium (and from what I read in these pages so do the majority of growers) and water it regularly. that is: stay on the ball! good plants don't happen when the grower is slack!

and imo remedies for slack growers shouldn't be attempted. or, as you point out, confusion is the result.

cheers!

ch
 
T

TribalSeeds

One thing Lucas said that Ive often heard conflicting opinions on was about top drip and air stones.

"in top drip, if you have an ebb cycle, oxygen arrives during the same "root zone mist" as in ebb flow, or if using constant drip, oxygen will need to be infused by airstones..."

Im running blumats now and I have experimented with and without stones in my res. I havent noticed any improvements on how long the res keeps, temps, ph or anything. I was thinking about taking them out until I went back over the Lucas thread when reading this post.
 
Z

Ziggaro

Yeah I been eying up those blumats good idea.. It would definitely make my life easier as I'm always moving my plants here and there to get around them. Thats the problem with trying to make the most of a small space. I'm not sure how I'd manage a reservoir, though..

I wouldn't say I'm waterlogged and I'm certainly not using pure peat, rather I'm using the sunshine 4 professional mix which has probably bout 30% perlite or more. It still doesn't dry out every day it usually takes 3-4 days to completely dry.

Other than coco growers I don't see many people here watering every day so I also was wondering what your thoughts on that are.

I know you guys use blumats and they seem to work damn well... What do you think about trying to replicate this but by hand watering every day?
 
T

TribalSeeds

Sorry, that wasnt a suggestion to use blumats... I was asking a question about stones being necessary when using a drip system. I hear conflicting ideas on that all the time. Reading this post made me go back over the Lucas thread and I copied that statement from Lucas.
 

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
here's my advice ..

-use proper sized containers, then you never worry about waterlogging

-number two, ditch peat.. coco has far better advantages then peat ever will / has

-only time you should worry about waterlogging, is in cold temps, with low light sources, or radiant heat from your 'lamp' . and in this instance, like he says, water a little less, and or use heat mats on the bottom.



my main point, ditch coco, and never worry about dry spots, watering in stages as we all know peat, and water logged plants. but if you like peat, well I guess stick with it
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
or the dude had either too small a plant in too big a container or his mix was moving too "slow"

who drowns a transplant?
 
Z

Ziggaro

Well.. the thing is I have a lot of this mix left and I'm not one to be wasteful. It'd be great to know more about how I could better use what I have.
The plants are going to need water by tomorrow, so I was thinking about adding a liter tonight and then every day after instead of a gallon every 4 days. Do you think that would work?
BTW I have used coco, and I still have some, but I cannot keep up with it. Watering once a day was just not enough in 3 gallon containers and became a huge chore since I'd have to water just before lights off to be safe, otherwise they might dry out...

BTW Tribal, I was not trying to answer your question but I might be able to add some insight..
Lucas did say that having an airstone is not necessary, but only because of agitation. It's not the airstone that is adding the DO, it is the agitation of the water and the bubbles on the surface (according to his posts).
Therefore, if you have a drip system with a large reservoir, I would say you should make sure that it is agitated, by a stone or otherwise.
If you are using a recirculating reservoir where the res is filling and emptying, that is what creates the agitation.
I didn't realize you were asking me, but thats what I'd say. I'm not a hydro guy and obviously need help myself, but I'm a pretty good reader lol!
 
Z

Ziggaro

maybe nobody is using promix anymore. has anybody ever tried watering this way?
I didn't water last night they'll be pretty dry today so I'm just going to keep flooding every 3,4 days.
I may just have to test this on one plant and see if the bottom dries
 

Thaniel

Member
I would say that Lucas is all about simplicity. Bottom line is that the easiest way to take care of peat based mix whether its pro mix, foxfarms, or sunshine mix is to water with minimum 20 percent runoff and wait until the media is dry before watering and flooding again.

Doing this you won't have any buildup, and roots will stay healthy. Having the plants in the proper sized container is also key. Such that the container is dry every other day or every third day I find is best.
 
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