Secret Ingredient?!?

[h.h.]

I thought kelp also helped with disease suppression and insects as well as other good properties (secondary metabolites). Is that wrong?

I can't answer that. I don't have those problems. Generally a healthy plant is more resistant to infestation. Compost will do that. I'm not saying that it doesn't have any good qualities, only that these qualities can also be found in cheaper more local amendments. When I see kelp on the beach, there's nothing growing in it and it attracts a lot of flies. Iceplant grows up on the dunes with little else. Other than the waves wiping out the beach area, according to theory, this area should be a jungle of huge overgrown vegetation. It just doesn't happen.

 

[h.h.]

Back to aloe... are the amounts of Iron and Magnesium too trace to have an effect on my plant's greenness?

I'm sure they help to a limited degree. The thing is, not to get stuck on one thing. You have your own aloe which makes it worthwhile but honestly, I wouldn't walk down the street to get it.

 

[EclipseFour20]

My only disagreement is how you increase CAC after you have watered? Clay and water are attracted to each other because of the charge, this is often why plants don't grow in clay, not because the soil isn't porous, but the because the water is locked out. So after watering periods, I could see where CAC would be severely lowered, it is never constantly static or rising. + the fact of some many other factors that influence CAC.......pH, microbi, humus content, etc.

But I am intrigued about the other effects of DE, such as phosporous uptake. I use DE [Red Lake] and have been pleasantly surprised by the water efficiency. Can you actually explain the concept vs. " I read about it, it's true".

From various trials & studies, it seems the sweet spot for calcined clay is in the range 8-13%; I like 12%.

I forgot the internet links...but the pdf files under the "attached files" section are some scholarly studies and good reference---

431.pdf = Phosphate Sorption of Calcined Materials Used as Components of Soilless Root Media Characterized in Laboratory Studies

906.pdf = Phosphorus Rate, Leaching Fraction, and Substrate Influence on Influent Quantity, Effluent Nutrient Content, and Response of a Containerized Woody Ornamental Crop

owen-2004...pdf = Finding the Balance: Calcined Clay Rate Effects in Pine Bark Substrates

Nutrient Management...pdf = Soil Fertility Basics (12 chapters--75 pages)

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Hey man! I've been trying to PM you, but it doesnt seem to be working

How are tou friend?

I'm too new over here to enjoy the pm functions, but ya, it's all good in da hood. Man, I'm glad I found you guys.

 

[VortexPower420]

My secret is always using 1 tsp per gal of organic nep fish or another cold processed fish, there is a brilliant man John kempf he has written for Acres (one of my other secret weapons, best eco-farming/soil building/community building/fighting the good fight mag money can buy, highly recommend it to all here) and has a eco-ag consulting company. He talks about how the oils from the fish can be used to increase aromatic oils and high plant compounds. here is a link

www.growbetterfood.com/More_Learning/AEAFall2011-online.pdf​

to a pdf where he talks about the plant pyrmid.
I got to hear him speak and if anyone and you should pure brilliance.

I also always use Earth Tonic it was made "for" the vortex brewer but i use 1 ml a gal every water. It is sea salts with the biodynamic preps homopathicly added and some other good stuff.

I guess it could also be that Have a very diversely amended recycled soil with a strong micro herd that makes my hands black to touch it.

I love being a dirt nerd.

Timbuktu.




​

 

[Seandawg]

SeanDawg.......I live on the beach also; how do you prepare your seaweed for foliar spraying, other than washing off all the salt of couse? I live on the other side of the Pacific....the cold side! I've thought about this but haven't been gutsy enough to try it yet. Do you hang to dry then grind it up? I've thought the long brown tubliar seaweed would be best. Thankyou so much in advance _
peace

Honestly,
I usually take up so much of this stuff that i use it in almost everything.
Compost
Vermicompost
Botanical tea
FPE
Straight into my soil
Pretty much any way possible.

I wash it and use it almost directly after that. I used to try to dry it and to kind of save it and preserve it but i realized that im actually kind of loosing some of its potential properties in the process. Some compounds and or nutrients are degraded as so (really minor really). So I'll use it fresh!

I harvest a whole bunch! Wash everything. Some goes back into a bucket, fill with just enough water to keep hydrated. leave it for a day or two, and you'll see that the water turns really dark and viscus like a watery syrup. You can use that as a soil drench or foliar spray. the rest of the plant material goes into the compost bin.

Fresh Seaweed goes into my recycled soil.
Fresh Seaweed goes into my worm bin. (the drained "tea" solution is really good for young clones or seedlings also).

Sometimes i take a whole bunch. throw it into a blender, take a half cup of that with a half cup of alfalfa. aerate it to get the nutrients, compounds and other stuff dissolved into the solution.
Strain, use as a foliar or soil drench.

I add some to every "natural farming" Fermented extract i make.

Im sure i've used it other ways also but thats all that i can think of right now. And yes, I've seen much benefit to my grow from this.

When i learned "organics" from another old time grower in my area he told me all about bat guano and its fantastic and all of that other jazz. Using it i saw very little benefit, in certain scenarios it did more harm than good. Using that botanical tea for the first time with an "inferior" seaweed and i saw amazing results! truly amazing! after that i needed more! i wanted to know more.

I learned about the brown sea kelp which i learned to be "the best". when it came down to it, my native brown seaweed did just as good and cost me nothing. I have a box of Kelp meal. but i use that only in my compost or soil sample ACTs.

I hope my anecdote helps if anything at all.

If other disagree, oh well... wish the best to you anyway.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I'm too new over here to enjoy the pm functions, but ya, it's all good in da hood. Man, I'm glad I found you guys.

I was hoping that the two 'botanists' would be able to post peer-reviewed research for Dr. Maynard "Quack" Murray's self-promotion but I'm not too hopeful since the opening salvo included two articles from Maximum Yield - tucked between a full-page ad for Kushie Kush and Boners for Stoners - a special 'personal ointment' made from roadkill and rotting Yucca stumps. Big seller in Barstow......

Sadly though, in this case the concept of 'peer-reviewed' would have to be limited to articles from High Times Magazine, 420 Magazine, Cannabis Culture, Nug Magazine and of course Kush Magazine

A real shame that Advanced Nutrients stopped publication of their magazine, Rosebud, but hopefully a YouTube video is in the works.

 

[jerry111165]

No kidding.....

Eagle 20 MSDS

Then again there is the deal about culling the herd........

Naptha for plants, huh? Leave it up to Dow...and as a fungicide? I'm surprised it doesn't kill the whole plant...

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

I was hoping that the two 'botanists' would be able to post peer-reviewed research for Dr. Maynard "Quack" Murray's self-promotion but I'm not too hopeful since the opening salvo included two articles from Maximum Yield - tucked between a full-page ad for Kushie Kush and Boners for Stoners - a special 'personal ointment' made from roadkill and rotting Yucca stumps. Big seller in Barstow......

Sadly though, in this case the concept of 'peer-reviewed' would have to be limited to articles from High Times Magazine, 420 Magazine, Cannabis Culture, Nug Magazine and of course Kush Magazine

A real shame that Advanced Nutrients stopped publication of their magazine, Rosebud, but hopefully a YouTube video is in the works.

That's it. I'm going to start slinging my super secret mineral amendment, pure halite mined from the Michigan Basin, home to the dankety of danks. BWAHAHAHA!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

That's it. I'm going to start slinging my super secret mineral amendment, pure halite mined from the Michigan Basin, home to the dankety of danks. BWAHAHAHA!

FunTimesIndeed

Bringing a product to the cannabis 'community' is pretty easy. Spend 90% of your research money on the label's artwork, another 8% on greasing the skids at the stoner magazines for puff pieces and the rest to pay sock-puppets minimum wage to post anedcotal stories about the incredible results from using this or that.

Sticking a fat slob on a large pumpkin to sell endo spores is my favorite - why not? They could have increased their market share by just adding a couple of props - a 12-pack of Keystone Beer from Walmart and a colostomy bag. Might as well try and garner the AWM demographic.

A theme song or jingle is also helpful - too bad Hokie Pokie is already taken but it may be old enough so that it falls into the public domain category so don't fret - keep a grinnin'

CC

 

[supermanlives]

if i told ya it wouldnt be a secret. but butterfly balls are a great soil ammendment. it takes a while to collect enough tho and you need tweezers..makes collecting saffron look easy

 

[h.h.]

I was hoping that the two 'botanists' would be able to post peer-reviewed research for Dr. Maynard "Quack" Murray's self-promotion but I'm not too hopeful since the opening salvo included two articles from Maximum Yield - tucked between a full-page ad for Kushie Kush and Boners for Stoners - a special 'personal ointment' made from roadkill and rotting Yucca stumps. Big seller in Barstow......

Sadly though, in this case the concept of 'peer-reviewed' would have to be limited to articles from High Times Magazine, 420 Magazine, Cannabis Culture, Nug Magazine and of course Kush Magazine

A real shame that Advanced Nutrients stopped publication of their magazine, Rosebud, but hopefully a YouTube video is in the works.

I forget, you're an expert on "rotting" yucca, you lived in yucca valley.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Speaking of rotting yucca, for the record...I am guilty of incorporating yucca schidigera extact in my routine; a great tea catalyst and soil amendment for problematic strains. Imo, food grade variety is the best--second best (and a bit cheaper) is the variety packaged for equine use.

 

[Seandawg]

Why is this place so consistently terroristic and combative? Please guys civil discussions are greatly appreciated!

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

For sure. There seem to be some long standing beefs around here.

 

[h.h.]

Speaking of rotting yucca, for the record...I am guilty of incorporating yucca schidigera extact in my routine; a great tea catalyst and soil amendment for problematic strains. Imo, food grade variety is the best--second best (and a bit cheaper) is the variety packaged for equine use.

Decaying yucca makes a better tea then fresh. i don't know about the extract. Any idea on it's effects on the microherd?

 

[h.h.]

Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,
Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University
The Myth of Curative Kelp:
"Seaweed extracts reduce disease, improve production, and increase stress resistance in landscape
plants"
The Myth
Seaweeds are ancient relatives of terrestrial plants and play a similar ecological role in coastal systems.
Kelps, the larger seaweeds species, are also of historical dietary and medicinal importance to various
human cultures. Their extracts have extensive industrial applications, and more recently their activity as
antioxidants and antibiotics has been investigated. It is clear that human consumption of some seaweeds
imparts health benefits; can seaweeds also benefit plant health?
Vendors of natural garden products certainly want you to think so. Web sites and sales literature praise
the effectiveness of seaweed extracts as soil conditioners, disease suppressants, and stress reducers.
Research (rarely verifiable) is presented to support the use of seaweed drenches or sprays on turf, fruits
and vegetables, flowers, perennials, shrubs and trees in every possible situation. Are seaweed extracts
that elusive magic bullet for creating perfect landscapes?
The Reality
Seaweed extracts (SE) have been dubbed “biostimulants” or “metabolic enhancers”, defined as chemicals
with growth-enhancing properties but little nutrient value. Growth enhancement has been attributed to
the presence of plant growth regulators (sometimes called plant hormones), and several of these growth
regulators have been isolated from seaweed extracts, including cytokinins, auxins, and gibberellins. This
is not surprising, as seaweeds are part of the plant kingdom and like other plants manufacture their own
growth regulators. More important is the question of whether these substances applied to other plant
materials might have similar regulatory effects.
Scientific literature
There is a substantial body of scientific literature on the application of seaweed extracts in agriculture, in
some cases dating back nearly a century. Much of the earlier research suggested benefits from SE
treatment, but more recent results have been cautious in recommending SE use. I’ve compiled a brief
summary of these research findings:
1) Rooting
Logic suggests that the growth regulators found in SE, like any other commercially available rooting
hormone, can stimulate root development on cuttings and transplants. This suggestion is borne out in
research on both potatoes and pines in laboratory and greenhouse applications and could have use as a
root dip during transplanting. Success would not be expected (nor has been found) in field applications to
existing plants, as these compounds are quickly degraded by microbes and are unlikely to have any
regulatory effect on nearby plant tissues.
2) Turf health
There has been some success in utilizing seaweed extracts as a turf-enhancing treatment. The
predominant research has focused on Kentucky bluegrass, where SE applications have been associated
with improved seedling establishment, rooting, and increased drought and salinity tolerance. However,
other research with the same plant material reported “little effect” after SE treatment. Seaweed extracts
are also reported to improve root growth of bentgrass and improve the “physical strength” of
environmentally stressed turf.
3) Foliar growth
Other than the aforementioned turf benefits, there are few, if any documented advantages of SE
application to plant foliage. Treatment of cabbage resulted in no change in either head yield or nutrient
content; similarly in apple neither vegetative growth nor leaf mineral content were altered. Likewise, SE
did not improve production of peppers or several species of herbaceous perennials.
4) Fruit size, yield and/or quality
Many studies have examined SE efficacy in improving fruit production. The most positive results appear
to be in citrus production, where some trials revealed slight increases in fruit yield. Other work on
oranges reported no effect on either sprouting or fruit set, however. Peaches gained firmness in response
to one SE product, but neither they nor apricots exhibited any response to another SE product. Some
apple varieties developed better fruit color after SE treatment, but none of the tested varieties showed
improvements in yield, weight, or mineral composition. Likewise, SE treatment had no effect on grain
yield in wheat, persimmon production, strawberry or pepper yields, pear fruit set, or tomato yield or
quality.
5) Disease management
There are few reports of successful disease management through SE application. One positive result was
found in potted cabbage seedlings, where damping-off disease was prevented by treatment with seaweed
extract. Other experiments on bacterial and fungal control have had less success. Grain treated with SE
was no more resistant to subsequent fungal infection, but germination rates actually decreased as a result.
SE treatment of strawberry fungal infection and bacterial leaf spot in tomato had only a 33% success rate,
while investigations on Alternaria leaf blight and peach leaf curl showed no effect.
6) Pest management
An early report 40 years ago suggested that seaweed extract would decrease red spider mite infestations.
Nothing more has developed from that initial hypothesis, but a number of more recent papers have
documented the nematicidal activity of some seaweed extracts. Researchers have found reduced egg
production and hatching and increased larval mortality in nematodes treated directly with seaweed
extract. Applied to greenhouse plants, seaweed extracts reduced nematode infestation of tomato plants
and citrus species, but no effect was found on these latter plants in the field. Researchers have suggested
that plant maturity could influence effectiveness, with a greater benefit seen in younger plants compared
to older, established trees in the field.
7) Environmental stress resistance
Virtually no success has been reported in this area; while the earlier-mentioned turf work suggested SE
application improved salinity and drought tolerance, that effect does not carry over to other plant
materials. Herbaceous perennials treated with SE did not exhibit improved drought resistance, nor did SE
treatment assist in plant growth or transplant survival of four common ornamental shrubs and trees. In
fact, untreated plants mulched with pine bark performed better than those that received a commercial
product containing “a blend of endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungi, beneficial root/soil bacteria, chelated
micronutrients and biocatalysts including humic acids, complex carbohydrates, yucca plant extract, sea
kelp and organic N and P.” In another study, compost was found to be more effective in drought
resistance than biostimulants including seaweed extracts.
Conclusions from researchers
1) Plant selection: “…working with resistant varieties seems to be the best solution [to disease
resistance].”
2) Environmental conditions: “…soil fertility and production conditions were more important growth
and yield determinants than were foliar sprays.”
3) Management techniques: “If proper planting techniques are followed, the use of biostimulants is
unwarranted.”
4) Overall assessment: “…treatments are ultimately dependent on multiple plant, soil, and
environmental factors, and often have no discernible effects.” “…there appears to be little value in
applying these products.”
5) Marketing: “Manufacturers’ claims for the benefits of these products go beyond what is
substantiated by the research.” “The number of products now on the market seems to outnumber the
published papers.”
These researchers’ conclusions say it all – seaweed extracts are aggressively marketed with little regard
for objective, scientific research. There is a final concern never addressed, which is the justification for
large-scale removal of vegetation from one ecosystem (the marine kelp “forests”) for application to
another (terrestrial landscapes). The ecological impacts of increased seaweed harvesting are currently
under investigation and the possibility of significant ecosystem damage is real. There is no argument that
seaweed products are useful and valuable to humans for the reasons discussed earlier. However, given
that there are few documented benefits from applying seaweed extracts to plants, this is not a justifiable
nor sustainable practice. The marketing of such products as “earth friendly” in this context should be
repugnant to environmentally conscious consumers.
The Bottom Line
• Seaweed extracts contain plant growth regulators which, like traditional rooting products, can
stimulate root growth in cuttings and transplants
• Seaweed extracts have no reliable effect on plant production or resistance to disease and
environmental stress, especially in field conditions
• Variations in plant materials and environmental conditions are greater determinants of plant
health than applications of seaweed extract
• Seaweed extracts for landscape use represent a poor use of natural resources, especially those
from environmentally sensitive coastal ecosystems
For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scott’s web page at http://www.theinformedgardener.com

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda ...ltural myths_files/Myths/Seaweed extracts.pdf

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/index.html

 

[ClackamasCootz]

You and your buddy can post the same lie over and over and over and it doesn't change a thing - seaweed extract is not liquid kelp. No manufacturer makes this claim.

Pretty much like every other subject you approach - pure FUD and little else.

Neither one of you could name the chemicals used to make seaweed extracts so let me help you out: USDA NOP 205.601(j)(1)

You're welcome

 

[h.h.]

You and your buddy can post the same lie over and over and over and it doesn't change a thing - seaweed extract is not liquid kelp. No manufacturer makes this claim.

Pretty much like every other subject you approach - pure FUD and little else.

Neither one of you could name the chemicals used to make seaweed extracts so let me help you out: USDA NOP 205.601(j)(1)

You're welcome

I apologize for not being as smart as you and your so called stoner knowledge. You've yet to provide anything other than wise cracks and put downs. Thanks for your input.

 

[EclipseFour20]

In the interest of World Peace, can we agree that kelp meal, kelp powder and liquid seaweed are all SEAWEED EXTRACTS--and ALL SEAWEED EXTRACTS contain plant growth-stimulating compounds (which is really want you want).

Primary difference is the delivery of these compounds: dry varieties take weeks/months for the soil to break down...whereas liquid varieties take days/weeks. Hence I use liquid seaweed extract in my indoor garden--I don't have months to wait.

Check out this interesting report titled "Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants of Plant Growth and Development"....http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/76158/Documents/JPGR%20review.pdf