Trainwreck or a cross?

[moondawg]

Im wanting to give trainwreck a try but ive read that it has floppy weak stems and can hermie a bit late in the grow.

Ill be growing it outdoors so floppy stems make life difficult, although searching seems to reveal a lot of outdoor grows and i dont see the floppy stems.

What do you folks think? Go with the straight strain or pick a good cross that might help with stem strength and maybe even the herm issue?

Any knowledge out there? That cole train cross looks good but if i can grow the pure strain i would prefer it.

 

[spiralofeyes]

Can't give ya much input on TW from personal experience,having never grown it,but I have heard its VERY floppy,and I've grown a few of what I think were TW pheno Casey Jones.Major floppers. Not really a problem as I just tied them off a net on the wall. If you have your heart set on the pure strain,why not just grow it on a trellis? Growth characteristics can be a PITA,but if the smoke is worth it...

 

[yerboyblue]

If you can get the true original than get the true original. And like spiral said, get a trellis. And some bamboo stakes. And some string.

 

[moondawg]

thanx for the input guys. I dont mind a stake or 2 but .... a trellis?! I may not want to grow it THAT bad.
Ive seen some outdoor pics of grows where it appeared the branches were holding the budwieght. In fact, i think in the grow report sect or somewhere when i was searching, i saw a TW trunk with a pop can in front of it demostrating that the stem was good sized?

Does the sagging occur in mid flower or is it at 8wks or ..... when do they reach a point that they would need a trellis?

Does it matter if theyre outside in the sun you think?

 

[yerboyblue]

Depending how tall you get em, they could start sagging mid flower. Even a plant with healthy thick branches will sag if it is a tall, top heavy plant. I think outside people very commonly stake TW as well as almost any other plant if it gets big enough, just some outdoor plants might develop hardier stems/branches due to longer veg time and rougher conditions. And honestly, trellising isn't that much of a pain to do, takes a little practice, but is completely worth it. Just get some cheap plastic hortitrellis and put the branches through it, then secure it with some stakes and string.

 

[Tom Hill]

Here is Trainwreck flirting with 10 pounds outdoors. The plant was trellised thrice but yours truly underestimated the plants stretch on that final application and thus floppin all over the joint after a rain. I personally would not be so quick to dismiss the value of the plant being so friggen pliable. If the same mistakes were made with a plethora of other plants, we'd be looking at a pic of broken branches, many more stacks of colas lying atop each other, and all the nightmares that go along with all that. -T

It is better to be flexible, than to not..

 

[moondawg]

Tom Hill, that pic has told me more than conversation could ever explain. I needed to know its size and the capacity of its stems and youve answered both questions and have provided me with the insight i need to grow the strian..

Of course, context is always so critical for so many of lifes questions. Mine is a guerilla grow with a lot of air surviellance, and instinctively, the idea of a trellis sounds a bit impracticle under my conditions. But as you say we need to keep an open mind and your trellis design has provide me with new ideas.

But Tom, if youre still around, you might be able to provide me with some info that not many others could if you dont mind. In my searches, i found Thseeds Atrain. Yes, i know they seem to get a lot of negative opinions, and i wouldnt want to upset anyone, but that hasnt been my experience with the couple of strains ive grown at all. I found the sage to be quality.

Theyve crossed TW with Mazar i sheriff. Im near the lattitude of mazar afg. and i know the strain to be tough and somewhat smaller than your TW there. Do you think the Tw attributes that makes the strain attractive would show through with the mazar daddy and in the cross? Does mazar have any dominant traits that would greatly alter the tw affect and yeild? I feel like it would almost have to give the tw some added strength, but knowing absolutely nothing about breeding my feelings arent worth much. I'd appreciate your 2cents.

 

[moondawg]

Depending how tall you get em, they could start sagging mid flower. Even a plant with healthy thick branches will sag if it is a tall, top heavy plant. I think outside people very commonly stake TW as well as almost any other plant if it gets big enough, just some outdoor plants might develop hardier stems/branches due to longer veg time and rougher conditions. And honestly, trellising isn't that much of a pain to do, takes a little practice, but is completely worth it. Just get some cheap plastic hortitrellis and put the branches through it, then secure it with some stakes and string.

I hear you yerboyblue. I stake every plant i grow. We have big thunderstorms and no stake, no plant. You might be shocked to see what a 60mph wind burst and some quarter sized hail can do to a sweet baby like Tom's girl.

 

[moondawg]

... stoned....

 

[bodymind]

Tom's post is right on about the flexibility of the stems, and that that characteristc is an attribute to the plant. I've never grown a plant with more flexible stems. If it is in your budget and in your interest why don't you try a hybrid and the original clone? I've grown the original trainwreck and made a multihybrid with tw, an old hawaiian and flo - and, let me tell you, it is truly amazing herb. It seems to cross well and impart potency and terpene depth of the skunkiest order to everything it touches.

 

[yerboyblue]

I hear you yerboyblue. I stake every plant i grow. We have big thunderstorms and no stake, no plant. You might be shocked to see what a 60mph wind burst and some quarter sized hail can do to a sweet baby like Tom's girl.

I wouldn't shocked at all, however I would wonder why there is a crater where my tree used to be, until I found the plant strewn 100 yards away, carried by a gust like that.

 

[moondawg]

ha ha! lol i know that sad song well. Ive sang it myself many times.

Hell yerboyblue, ive found my plant in a new location with the stake still attached to part of it.... and i use a 1/2" rebar stake!! I cant remember the name of the hurricane a few years back that made its way over me and for 2 straight days the wind blew at 50mph. When it finally stopped, my plants looked like they had been hit by an 18 wheeler.

 

[moondawg]

Well, ive watched 3 outdoor grow vids on youtube and sat through a review by Steve Tuck and i dont know what plant Tom Hill is growing up above, but it dont match Tucks review and it dont match another single Od grow on youtube.

Tuck and all 3 of the vids made the same conslusions. Very low yeild, 8oz with a full outdoor season and couldnt hold its ownself up at 4' tall where it maxed out in height and size. Tuck says 2ozs is max indoors and indoors only, the 3 growers growing it outdoors say it was a mistake to grow it outdoors and wouldnt do it again. .

Honestly, the vids and reviews are so different than Toms pic you have to wonder what the hell? He must have a different trainwreck than the others. All stated the plant hermies bad. The plants in those vids cant be grown outdoors under any reasonable normal conditions. I dont know what to think, but Im done. Im going with Cole train.

 

[yerboyblue]

Well, ive watched 3 outdoor grow vids on youtube and sat through a review by Steve Tuck and i dont know what plant Tom Hill is growing up above, but it dont match Tucks review and it dont match another single Od grow on youtube.

Tuck and all 3 of the vids made the same conslusions. Very low yeild, 8oz with a full outdoor season and couldnt hold its ownself up at 4' tall where it maxed out in height and size. Tuck says 2ozs is max indoors and indoors only, the 3 growers growing it outdoors say it was a mistake to grow it outdoors and wouldnt do it again. .

Honestly, the vids and reviews are so different than Toms pic you have to wonder what the hell? He must have a different trainwreck than the others. All stated the plant hermies bad. The plants in those vids cant be grown outdoors under any reasonable normal conditions. I dont know what to think, but Im done. Im going with Cole train.

Tom Hill might have the original TW, maybe he is out in the triangle and has access to the original cut, since I believe actual TW is clone only. Everything in seed is a back-cross or hybrid.

 

[krunchbubble]

Here is Trainwreck flirting with 10 pounds outdoors. The plant was trellised thrice but yours truly underestimated the plants stretch on that final application and thus floppin all over the joint after a rain. I personally would not be so quick to dismiss the value of the plant being so friggen pliable. If the same mistakes were made with a plethora of other plants, we'd be looking at a pic of broken branches, many more stacks of colas lying atop each other, and all the nightmares that go along with all that. -T

View Image

It is better to be flexible, than to not..

Officially MY hero....

TW is my favorite!

 

[MummyCat]

...even the crosses are floppy

I have a pretty good string method for her

last year:

 

[TrichyTrichy]

subscribed

 

[Tipz]

ATW

ATW

can take alot of bending, give it what it wants LST.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

MummyCat is working it with room to grow - which is always nice!

I like tomatoe cages, easy to install during veg or early flower. Self supporting.

Trellis could be really cool also, it would be easier to harvest I think if you wire the plant to one side of the trellis vs try weaving the plant into and out of the holes -

A trellis in the form of a man - and take it to Burning Man!!!!
and invite us!!!

 

[moondawg]

Tom Hill might have the original TW, maybe he is out in the triangle and has access to the original cut, since I believe actual TW is clone only. Everything in seed is a back-cross or hybrid.

Yerboyblue, i have been researching Tw for about a month now. Outdoor guerilla growing is very hard work and to plant a strain that you dont know means a failed crop and much wasted hard work. Ive read probably 15 grow reports and talked to another dozen or so people that have grown it, some of them several times. Ive watched approximately 6 strain reviews on Youtube, some of them from famous breeders. Ive seen pictures or video's of probably 20 grows. Some of those by breeders. There are some things i know to be true about trainwreck and ill tell you what they are.

Dr. Greenthumb, Humbolt seed Organization, Greenhouse Seeds and Homegrown Fantaseeds all have a copy of the original cut. The plants that result from the seed they are selling came from manipulation from that cut. They are mostly identical to the original cut. The cut has several unique qualities about it that would be very hard to imitate or reproduce. In fact, its probably true that the worst possible scenario for a trainwreck grow is to have the original cut.

The original cut is a hermaprodite and it hermies and everyone thats grown it or bred with it states as much. Its offspring hermies and its crosses hermie. Although, those who have purchased or otherwise came to possess the cut and are selling seeds have reversed the plant and chosen specimens with the least tendency for this trait so actually, the seeds should be a bit less likely to hermie, although all 4 seed vendors admit that their TW will hermie late in the grow.

Secondly, the branches are not only weak but theyre irregular and more numerous than whats typically seen. Thats why the plants look like a trainwreck.

If you see a good picture or vid of the original cut being grown and the plants that result from seeds from the 4 vendors i mentioned above, there is no question whatsoever that they do indeed have the original and have reversed it to make seeds. The plants are the same. The same branching, the same coloring, the same hermaphroditism, the same leaf and bud shape and the same flowering time as the original cutting, without question.

And those that have grown it all make the same statements about its character. It hermies and is difficult to the inth degree to grow successfully outdoors in a stable sitting like MummyCats, let alone a guerilla grow which all have said is very very unwise and will result in failure. Mummycat's grow is well done, most arent as successful as his and tomatoe cages are practically in every video.

AFter all of my reading and viewing of grows, i cant explain Toms plant except to say it is by far the exception and no grower anywhere should ever expect those results either from the seeds of the 4 vendors i mentioned or the original cut.

Im going with a cross, Cole train becuase it hermies less and is stronger than most of the crosses its in which as Mummycat says, have floppy stems as well.

Thats what i know.