Bone meal ash

[magiccannabus]

I'm growing in a mix currently that has been really great at supplying nitrogen and potassium, but it seems to really need quite a lot of phosphorus added to it, and it always could use calcium. So I was doing a little research and realized bone meal ash is almost a pure source of both calcium and phosphorus. That in turn got me thinking and I realized I could probably just burn some bone meal to make it. This would get rid of all the nitrogen, but what other impact would it have? I would imagine the uptake of this source would be more aggressive than regular bone meal which seems to need some time. Then again maybe not?

Also, the ph is probably more alkaline yes? What if I were to dissolve it in vinegar? Would that only strip out the calcium, or would it dissolve everything? Could this be used to bring the pH into a more idea range, and make it more immediately accessible to the rhizosphere and plant? Would this make it more easily dissolved into water? What would be the ideal pH to stabilize this to? Does anyone know how I would calculate the ratios to reach the same pH repeatedly? I know pH isn't huge in organics, but with such a "hot" fertilizer, I suspect it might be more important. Am I wrong?

 

[Scrappy4]

Magic, without addressing your questions at all, you might want to look at the fermented plant extract thread or look at using plant based materials in your mix. They have all the elements you listed, plus they are easily available to the plants.

I'm just afraid whatever product you come up with in your bonemeal experiment would not be worth the time and effort in comparrison with fairly easily found plant based materials. And then her's the kicker. Plant based materials bring dozens and maybe hundreds of other beneficial compounds that bonemeal can not equal.

Just something to consider.......scrappy

 

[Guest 324358]

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[jerry111165]

I buy and use this product from Fedco Seeds Organic Growers Supply up here in Maine

Phosphate, Bone Char (0-16-0, 32% P2O5: 16% available) Burned bone meal provides large amounts of readily available phosphorus. May be applied without restrictions to organically certified fields. We offer bone char instead of bone meal as it is a better value and more available to us. OMRI

So yes - your idea is valid. You can find it here - http://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/search.php?item=8531&index=0&listname=Phosphate&

It appears they are out of stock right now but this is the first time I've seen it out of stock.

Btw - Fedco is a fantastic company.

J

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Jerry

Nice product - this company carries a proprietary label of charred bone meal at $54.00 per bag. Their prices for any of their products seem high - I bought a bag of bamboo charcoal out of Japan from them - pretty stupid even before S&H charges were added.

Definitely not recommending them but as a resource to see what products are out there these guys are definitely in the middle of things.

 

[jerry111165]

I only paid twenty dollars for a #50 lb sack from Fedco.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

These guys are probably paying less than half that - ROI and all

 

[headband 707]

I don't use bone meal because it's kinda gross.. imvho.. headband 707

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I don't use it because it's too expensive vs. other amendment choices

Local organic farm supply store:

50# Bone Meal (ground) - $29.00 and is not organic - 3-15-0 for those who care

50# Bone Meal (pelletized) - $34.00 and is not organic - 2-14-0 for those who care, redux

50# Fish Bone Meal - $29.00 and is organic - 4-20-0 for those who care, redux, redux

 

[jerry111165]

You mean about the whole "NPK" thing *lol*

Still, it gives me the P, and the #50 lb sack will last me a long time. I think a year or so ago you told me this product was better than the regular bone meal.

 

[magiccannabus]

I appreciate the advice about using plant extracts, and while I think it is good advice, I already have bone meal, and no money, so I'd like to find the best way to use it up. I don't know that I will buy it again, but maybe if it works well. I'm really wondering too if I can just take my existing bone meal and burn it. Maybe just put it in the toaster oven on broil and char it? What's the best approach?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Add it to your soil without any embellishment. Your home stove couldn't possibly 'char' bone meal. You need a kiln for that.

Even if you could, you would render your oven worthless because you couldn't possibly get the smell out of not only your oven but the entire house.

Add to your soil, water the soil and let it sit if that's your procedure.

CC

 

[Scrappy4]

Magic, having no money is a great reason to use plant based materials and also why I pointed you towards the fermented plant extract sticky. These things are ridiculously cheap. How about one of my favorites? Cut up dandelions, roots and all, place in a bucket, cover with water, and hide it in a dark corne for a month or so, then dilute and use. Want flower power? AKA bloom booster plus. Do the same with just dandelion flowers. This stuff does take work, like a compost pile, or a worm bin but it is cheap, very cheap..........scrappy

 

[magiccannabus]

I actually do have a kiln!

Anyway, I will study using plant extracts more. I've toyed with the idea of going out and collecting a whole bunch of wild flowers, because what could fertilize flowering plants better than flowers? This year has just been so incredibly dry though and barely anything is blooming around here.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I'm growing in a mix currently that has been really great at supplying nitrogen and potassium, but it seems to really need quite a lot of phosphorus added to it, and it always could use calcium. So I was doing a little research and realized bone meal ash is almost a pure source of both calcium and phosphorus. That in turn got me thinking and I realized I could probably just burn some bone meal to make it. This would get rid of all the nitrogen, but what other impact would it have? I would imagine the uptake of this source would be more aggressive than regular bone meal which seems to need some time. Then again maybe not?

Also, the ph is probably more alkaline yes? What if I were to dissolve it in vinegar? Would that only strip out the calcium, or would it dissolve everything? Could this be used to bring the pH into a more idea range, and make it more immediately accessible to the rhizosphere and plant? Would this make it more easily dissolved into water? What would be the ideal pH to stabilize this to? Does anyone know how I would calculate the ratios to reach the same pH repeatedly? I know pH isn't huge in organics, but with such a "hot" fertilizer, I suspect it might be more important. Am I wrong?

Do you eat meat? What if you made ash from the bone material yourself? Or, try what I read in a recent issue of Acres, USA.

(Disclaimer: Not exactly reprinted, and not exactly with permission, hopefully not exactly plagiarized.)


Vinegar Extraction of Ca from eggshells, bone, seashells or other naturally occurring calcareous material

1gal of vinegar, freeze.

Then, turn over a container and allow concentrated vinegar, which thaws before the water, to melt into this container.

Repeat with material that thaws first two more times.

Pour this concentrated acetic acid over material the more finely broken up, ground or crushed the more quickly it will dissolve.

Shake or agitate this mixture daily.*

Continue for 1 week.

Filter through cheesecloth or similar and allow liquid to evaporate.

Use the resultant Ca3(PO4)2/CaCO3 in foliar or root drench applications at approximately .5-1oz/gal.​

*If using a covered container, cover loosely to allow for copious outgassing.



I do have many FPEs going, all from what I see growing vigorously wherever I look. However, I have not a clue what I may or may not be extracting via the methods I'm using.

 

[magiccannabus]

If one were to concentrate the acetic acid like that and then use it to extract the calcium, would it not leave behind phosphorus as a by-product?

I've read about extracting the phosphorus, and they seem to use a strong acid, but then they use calcium hydoxide on it, and I don't have any. Can I separate it some other way?

 

[SeaMaiden]

Not that I'm aware of, but a little searching may net you something. I found the bit about vinegar on a site about ALCHEMY.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Horticulture Vinegar (high Acetic acid levels) is used as a herbicide

Sounds like a disaster in the making......

 

[SeaMaiden]

We shall see!

I'm able to handle caustic chemicals just fine, it's fire I have issues with. I already assumed that concentrating acetic acid would require special handling, but it can't be much worse than muriatic acid, or something like OxiDate. I wasn't planning on using my respirator, but hey.

Plus, I just want to use up my extra bone and eggshells while not having to continue to pay for Ca supplementation.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

See what?

You have the lab equipment necessary to evaluate element extractions? Or will you just toss it on your plants to see what happens?