Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
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TribalSeeds
I had a problem with defoliating today. A few hours before I watered I removed a bunch of leaf from the shoots near the bottom and pruned some stuff that hasnt been getting much light. I have been going a little bit longer between waterings because Im trying to build up a larger root mass. About an hour after watering I noticed damping off on shoots and soggy leaves at the top of the shoots. It looks like the extra water that was supposed to go to everything I removed went to the tops of the shoots and caused the dampening off.
Is this something that could have been prevented? I did have some heat stress for a couple of days before this after I switched to 600W MH conversion. Should I have waited longer after the heat stress? Was it something else?
Is this something that could have been prevented? I did have some heat stress for a couple of days before this after I switched to 600W MH conversion. Should I have waited longer after the heat stress? Was it something else?
growhi
Member
i personally tried this technique , with dyer results ................ stressed plants witch take longer to flower . with the end product been airy , i will admit they are more buds as in a numeral sense a larger number of individual buds , but there lighter, less dense, and weaker also . !
i tried it on only 3 plants as an experiment , next to normal topped clone plants
but 3 strains are hardly enough to call it myth busted , maybe its strain dependent , so if it works for some people that's great each to there own i say
i tried it on only 3 plants as an experiment , next to normal topped clone plants
but 3 strains are hardly enough to call it myth busted , maybe its strain dependent , so if it works for some people that's great each to there own i say
Well I harvested my 4 plants and estimated yield will be around 13.5-15oz. Much better than previous. One plant had a yield of what will dry out to about 7.5 oz. I had some real bad light issues early in flower for about 3 weeks. That hurt. But because these big ass plants were in a 4x4 tent they were too crowded and shaded each other way too much also.
But all my buds are frosty, tight, and dense as hell.
Bought a 5x5 tent for my next 4 plant grow. Kosher Kush on that one. They need 1 more strip, then in 10-12 days I'll send them to flower. This time under 1k watts hps.
But all my buds are frosty, tight, and dense as hell.
Bought a 5x5 tent for my next 4 plant grow. Kosher Kush on that one. They need 1 more strip, then in 10-12 days I'll send them to flower. This time under 1k watts hps.
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The buds being lighter/airy has nothing to do with having been defoliated imho. Having an excellent light source, and a good nutrient plan will have a bigger impact on airyness.
Also one reason the op points out NOT doing side by side is that inevitably, the defoliated plants are nearly always being shaded out in some form by the non next to them. Also, the non defoliated plants are generally speaking taller. As such, the light source is placed even higher above the defoliated thus obviously they get less than optimal light and lumens penetration.
1. My first trip into this adventure was haphazard. My light was 400w LED and did not provide enough penetration nor intensity width wise to give me a great grow. Just mediocre.
2. I also crowded my plants 3 each into 10 gal bubbleponics tubs. Bad idea! Too close together for proper training. These girls want to be fat and wide, not tall.
3. My second trip I switched to individual 5 gal buckets in RDWC. Still using the same led heat source in the beginning. Some testing proved my light was not putting out properly. I added 400w of HPS until my replacement ballasts arrived for my led. Once fixed the led was putting out 685w and was used in conjunction with the 400w hps. HUGE difference! Solid tight buds!
4. Four plants was too many in a 4' x4' tent. Too much crowding and thus less light penetration.
5. Now going 5' x 5' tent with 1000w hps, 4 plants. I expect huge results.
*** as you see, it was/is, a learning process.***
I love what I'm learning from having chosen to try this method after finding this thread months ago.
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growhi
Member
i maye give it another go at some point but im only going by my own findings .................... see i grow speed i dont want to add an extra 2 to 3 weeks to every grow .......... add that time up over a year thats a extra batch a year your losing , i have my clones about 6 inchs and topped by the time the previous batch is finished and give them a extra week to 10 days and put on flower so i get a harvest every 2 months give or take !
it just didn't work for my growing system .......... not compatible
It isnt for everyone. I love it personally. I start new plants when I put new batch in to flower. This gives me 7-11 weeks to grow and do a full defoliation routine (at least stripped twice) in veg. Consequently for me, when they go to flower they are 14-16" tall and trained wide already.
I expect with my larger tent, more light, better rdwc setup, I'll see over 8 oz per plant, x only 4 plants. Anytime I can yield 2#'s + in a 5x5 over 7-10 weeks (strain dependent flowering period) I think I'll be very happy. Eventually I hope to avg 2.5#'s per cycle. I don't need more.
FarmerGreen
Member
So I started reading thins thread very enthusiastically till I discovered there were 225 pages! I only got thru 10.
I was just wondering what the benefits of using this technique on a scrog would be. I'm sure that's been answered somewhere on this thread, but as I said- 225 pages!
From what I understand defoliating does the same thing as scrogging/LSTing- ie creating more bud sites and letting the light hit all sites equally.
I've always trimmed a bit, but that is more about creating airflow and just generally freeing up a bit of space.
I think I'll definitely give it a go this time round. Full scrog/defol mash up. They're still little seedlings so I suppose I'll wait a couple of weeks and then get stuck in.
I was just wondering what the benefits of using this technique on a scrog would be. I'm sure that's been answered somewhere on this thread, but as I said- 225 pages!
From what I understand defoliating does the same thing as scrogging/LSTing- ie creating more bud sites and letting the light hit all sites equally.
I've always trimmed a bit, but that is more about creating airflow and just generally freeing up a bit of space.
I think I'll definitely give it a go this time round. Full scrog/defol mash up. They're still little seedlings so I suppose I'll wait a couple of weeks and then get stuck in.
Depending on how many plants you're running and the size space I would be careful. Typically with a higher plant count in a scrog situation you already have a dense canopy. Aside from removing some obvious large fans here and there I probably wouldn't do it.
The problem is, once you start doing it in veg, you're going to have very close nodes and more of a bush structure. Once you get all of those plants in flower, its going to be DENSE.. so you're going to have much crowding. If your goal is to get similar numbers with LESS plants then I would say go for it.
I would also NOT do this if you veg in the same place that you're flowering in. It will just slow you down.
bs0
Active member
I've defol'd in scrog to very good effect. But the key is you want it super super super packed. Then when you defol the fans you will increase light penetradion to the lower part of the canopy... (not the scrub branches, the lower part of the canopy)
I have a very high stretch plant. I defol once in veg, and twice in flower. Light defol 1/2 thru veg and right at the flip (at the flip, the light defol offsets the root:leaf ratio and makes the plant explode). The only heavy defol I do is @ 1 month flower after the stretch. This allows the full benefit of the fans during stretch, but clears light for the buds during the weight phase.
For this plant, it is amazing, individual experiences may differ. I find sativas to benefit more than indicas by quite a large margin due to the reduced stretch of indicas.
is that a pizza box on ur scale! ahah
i love it
lol, no. It's the top off one of those card board file storage boxes you can buy at walmart and what not.
@FarmerGreen
I tend to agree with both what bso and St3ve said in regards to sog. it's kinda a yes/no answer. While I know you're blown away at the 225 pages of this thread, I actually suggest reading every one of them. And DL the pdf from the first post. I actually spent 3 weeks reading every page and taking some notes before I began doing any of this.
iirc op does mention sog/scrog somewhere in the pdf too. They are similar to a degree. But as ST3ve mentions your trying to get max yield from fewer plants. You still will need some netting, not every 3" or whatever like a sog/scrog, but it's more to support the bent branches and bud weight. Once you see skinny off shoots are reaching above main branches because you bent the hell out of the mains, you'll understand. Suddenly you realize you have single plants that are 24-28" or even 30"+ wide and it's all bud.
My current grow is going to be a major mess.
I defoliated early in veg, but because the 4 girls were in a skinny closet to veg, I didnt bend them hardly and I let them go without another defoliation till way late, like at 6 weeks or something, and they are just way too tall. I put them into my bigger 5'x5' tent (4 plants) under 1k watt hps to flip and they were already 30" tall, and too skinny. They are now about 11 days into 12/12 and 7 days into flower and because of bending are still 30" tall, and just now starting to become bushy. But the nodes are too far apart because I didnt do my duty by hitting them again in veg around week 3-4.
This is going to be a mother to manage this grow, but it's all part of the learning process. I now have the tent almost completely filled with canopy and only 4 plants. My new diy rdwc is doing insanely good and they are downing 2-3 gals of water per day. Yet I feel like I'll be lucky if I net 2#'s because of my screwup in veg. To fix that I'm germinating 4 new seeds (fem master kush) in the next couple days and I will put them into my 4x4 tent to manipulate them short and wide before they go into flower tent (fair warning, 4'x4' tent is too small for 4 plants to flower in).
I tend to agree with both what bso and St3ve said in regards to sog. it's kinda a yes/no answer. While I know you're blown away at the 225 pages of this thread, I actually suggest reading every one of them. And DL the pdf from the first post. I actually spent 3 weeks reading every page and taking some notes before I began doing any of this.
iirc op does mention sog/scrog somewhere in the pdf too. They are similar to a degree. But as ST3ve mentions your trying to get max yield from fewer plants. You still will need some netting, not every 3" or whatever like a sog/scrog, but it's more to support the bent branches and bud weight. Once you see skinny off shoots are reaching above main branches because you bent the hell out of the mains, you'll understand. Suddenly you realize you have single plants that are 24-28" or even 30"+ wide and it's all bud.
My current grow is going to be a major mess.
I defoliated early in veg, but because the 4 girls were in a skinny closet to veg, I didnt bend them hardly and I let them go without another defoliation till way late, like at 6 weeks or something, and they are just way too tall. I put them into my bigger 5'x5' tent (4 plants) under 1k watt hps to flip and they were already 30" tall, and too skinny. They are now about 11 days into 12/12 and 7 days into flower and because of bending are still 30" tall, and just now starting to become bushy. But the nodes are too far apart because I didnt do my duty by hitting them again in veg around week 3-4.
This is going to be a mother to manage this grow, but it's all part of the learning process. I now have the tent almost completely filled with canopy and only 4 plants. My new diy rdwc is doing insanely good and they are downing 2-3 gals of water per day. Yet I feel like I'll be lucky if I net 2#'s because of my screwup in veg. To fix that I'm germinating 4 new seeds (fem master kush) in the next couple days and I will put them into my 4x4 tent to manipulate them short and wide before they go into flower tent (fair warning, 4'x4' tent is too small for 4 plants to flower in).
The read is long but I figured this debate has gone on for years and it was good to get to the bottom of it. It was interesting seeing some veteran growers opposed to this steadfast in the beginning and slowly come around in their way of thinking, I suggest taking your time and reading it all, took me a week.
bs0
Active member
It took me solo experimenting.. then I found the OP's post which was so close to what I had settled upon doing... The technique is solid, And there is something to be said of learning from others' experience.
My things that I think about when I'm plucking leaves-
Is this plant healthy enough to take its leaves?
if I remove this leaf, will any foilage below it benefit? (will something receive additional light due to its removal?)
Could I benefit more by moving the branch than by removing leaves?
is this leaf healthy? (if not, pluck that!)
I do this combined with what I mentioned earlier- defol up to 50% fans @ 1/2 veg time and @ flip, defol all other fan leaves @ 1/2 flower (day 35-40) after bud growing phase, prior to bud fattening phase. Side effect is that, beyond increased weight, trimming is reduced @ harvest.. which is always nice.
Blaz3
Member
Hello to all..I have a quick question..
Now I have read that you should NOT defoliate in flower if you didnt do it in veg..my question is WHY not..what are the effects on defoliating in flower,and not in veg?...should I do it?
My plants are at day 27 of 12/12..and the buds are small [due to budget constraints]...
I did not defoliate in veg,but I would like to righth now....should I,if so,should I maybe wait a week or two?
Do it righth now?400hps...
THIS WAS THEM 4 DAYS AGO:
Now I have read that you should NOT defoliate in flower if you didnt do it in veg..my question is WHY not..what are the effects on defoliating in flower,and not in veg?...should I do it?
My plants are at day 27 of 12/12..and the buds are small [due to budget constraints]...
I did not defoliate in veg,but I would like to righth now....should I,if so,should I maybe wait a week or two?
Do it righth now?400hps...
THIS WAS THEM 4 DAYS AGO:
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